McCain and Obama

[HsvToolFool]

For a quick review of my factual support, here's easy
access to all links I posted while supporting my stance...

"My Personal Work Incentives"
Harvard Economics Prof critiques Obama's tax plan

(Which was commentary on...)
"The Election Choice: Taxes"
Wall Street Journal compares McCain and Obama tax plans
"In sum, Mr. Obama is proposing to use the tax code to
substantially redistribute income..."

2001 Chicago Public Radio Interview
Obama's thoughts on redistribution of wealth

NY Black Panther attorney Percy Sutton links Obama to radical Khalid Al-Mansour

"Obama and Ayers Pushed Radicalism On Schools"

"The Obama-Ayers Connection"

"The Obama-Ayers incestuous money trail"

"Obama's McKnight In Shining Armor"

"AnnenbergGate: University Tipped Off Ayers/Obama Ally on Records Release"

Obama prosecutes free speech in Missouri

"Obama tried to sway Iraqis on Bush deal"

Zogby Poll: Voters Believe Media Bias is Very Real
Of likely voters: 53% perceive left-bias, 23% perceive right-bias

Summary of Journalists’ Political Views

 

[Len44]

For a quick review of my factual support, here's easy access to all links I posted while supporting my stance...

Uh, Pardon me, but I think we were looking for credible sources.

And, you can start with the WSJ -- a formerly blatant Republican publication that has now that it's been overtaken by the extreme right wingers...

Most of the rest of your so-called "factual support" links are even less credible.

 

[DrJRapp]

Money usually talks in the national elections. Historically, the man with the most money to spend on advertising wins. What amazes me is that Obama is outspending McCain by huge amounts on advertising and other campaign costs yet he leads by so slim a margin in the polls that as of this past week many would call the race a toss up.

Also it amazes me is that Democrats outnumber Republicans by about 25% yet Obama only leads in the polls by the slimest of margins.

I've said this before in this post, and I don't mean to sound racist if it does... I think when push comes to shove on election day America is not ready to elect a black man as President. The economic times certainly qualify as a crisis situation. Americans traditionally have also shown reluctance to change horses in the middle of a crisis, no matter how lame their current horse seems to be, so the ties and parallels with the current administration that Obama has drawn of McCain may ultimatly be his undoing.

 

[Rich]

Also it amazes me is that Democrats outnumber Republicans by about 25% yet Obama only leads in the polls by the slimest of margins.

I've said this before in this post, and I don't mean to sound racist if it does... I think when push comes to shove on election day America is not ready to elect a black man as President.

Jerry,

I am not sure what you consider slim, but the RealClearPolitics consensus of about 11 different polls shows Obama up by 6.6 points only three days before the election. Personally, I consider that a pretty comfortable margin. Most of those polls have between a two to three percent margin of error, but that still leaves Obama up 3.6 points past the margin of error. The electoral college maps paint an even grimmer picture for McCain.

I do, however, agree with you that race probably does have something to do with it, though. Any white candidate would probably be up 15 to 20 points against McCain right now. But the still rampant racism in our nation, combined with a very effective republican smear machine that has tried to paint Obama as everything from a communist, to a muslim arab terrorist, has certainly helped to keep the race closer than it ever should have been.

I do disagree with your assessment of staying with the status quo during a time of crisis, as it relates to this particular situation. That concept has generally related to being at war, rather than just being in a time of crisis. During a time of economic crisis, the party in power that is perceived to have overseen the culmination of this crisis is not going to be kept in power. Take the case of Herbert Hoover, who took over right before the Great Depression hit. He was scapegoated for the depression and lost badly in his re-election campaign in 1932.

This is the case with Bush. Americans see his administration as poorly overseeing the economy, and have rejected his policies with one of the worst approval ratings for a modern president. Obama's efforts to tie McCain to Bush seem to have worked very well, because as the economy worsened, so has McCain's poll numbers. It certainly doesn't help that McCain himself has admitted that he doesn't understand economics, or that he chose Palin for his running mate and Phil Gramm as his chief economics advisor. People are actually paying attention to those sorts of things this time around.

As for your numbers of democrats vs. republicans, Rasmussen reports that as of September 34.4% of Americans identified as Republicans, 38.4% identified as democrats, while 27.2% were not affiliated with either major party. This seems fairly evenly divided and consistent with the poll numbers. However, the number of REGISTERED party affiliates is a wholly different story.

According to USAToday:

Nationwide, there are about 42 million registered Democrats and about 31 million Republicans, according to statistics compiled by The Associated Press.

This seems like a pretty big discrepancy, but it could be explained by something as simple as the possibility that most of those who register as Independents tend to vote republican, so the number is skewed. I don't know if that is true . . . I am merely positing it as one possible explanation for the difference between the registered numbers and the poll results. It may also be that McCain appeals to more centrist-oriented democrats, but I doubt it. So ultimately, I don't know what the answer is to this question.

The bigger issue, though, in this election will be which candidate can get their people out to vote. It doesn't matter how many people are registered if they don't go out and vote on election day. I think Obama has the edge here. He has a well-oiled get-out-the-vote machine in every state that is left over from the primaries. He has a lot of money in the coffers to put to this final effort. And in general, the democrats seem a lot more energized about who Obama is than the republicans seem about McCain. I think this last factor is actually the most important. Ultimately, a lot of conservatives just don't like McCain that much and aren't happy to see him heading their ticket. Many of these voters will register their discontent by just staying home on election day.

 

[DrJRapp]

3 to 6 points is a very slim margin with 1 out of 7 (14%) still undecided after the gizillion dollars Obama has spent on advertising and TV prime time. Even worse when you consider the media bias in his favor. Not opinion just math.

I will be dissapointed no matter who wins. I will be dissapointed that we live in a land where our candidates have to undergo so much scrutiny and ridicule that nobody worth their salt wants to run. No matter who wins we are in deep do-do. McCain lacks the support of Congress and Obama lacks...well let's just say he lacks and leave it at that OK!

 

[Rich]

3 to 6 points is a very slim margin with 1 out of 7 (14%) still undecided after the gizillion dollars Obama has spent on advertising and TV prime time. Even worse when you consider the media bias in his favor. Not opinion just math.

Right, but incorrect math. First of all, margins of error work both ways. So it is more like 3 to 9 points with the application of the widest margin of error. More likely, it is somewhere between 4 and 8 points.

Also, your 14% undecided number appears a little high. Where did you get that from? According to a survey released recently by the Pew Research Center, only 8% of voters remain undecided. [Source]

According to that survey, the majority of those undecided voters are women, and women are more likely to break for Obama. But they are also mostly churchgoers, who might be more likely to break for McCain/Palin. They also tend to be less affluent and less educated. Who knows what that means?

The article I cite suggests that a fair number of them will break for McCain based on race alone. That is possible. If the lower part of the poll range is more accurate, with a 4% lead by Obama, and more than half of the undecideds break for McCain, then you may be right that we have a very close race here. But my gut tells me it is going to be more likely a lot of breaks the other way and an Obama landslide. I mean, let's face it, what has broken McCain's way in the past several months? Nothing. Either way, it will be interesting to watch as history unfolds. It is a historically-significant election regardless of who wins.

 

[Rich]

So did you guys hear about Palin getting Punk'd today? Apparently, she got a call from a Canadian comedian pretending to be French President Sarkosy, and she fell for it hook, line, and sinker! Is that a lot of ego, expecting that the President of France is going to legitimately call you as a vice presidential candidate to wish you well? Or is it just clear gullibility? Either way, it certainly doesn't speak too highly for her qualifications, in my opinion. But then we all know my opinion is highly biased.

She did mention that she might make a great President 8 years from now. Is it too early to start a Palin '16 thread?

 

[User211]

I've just listened to the Punk'd dialog(ue) - it is all over the web.

Phone her up and pretend to be Dmitry Medvedev, tell her a few nukes were on the way over, and we'd have the start of global nuclear annihilation.

If you guys vote her in (I don't think you will...) we'd better start to worry!

Anyway, soon it'll all be over, and we in the UK can take a break from the incessant media coverage. Phew!

 

[tonepub]

All kidding aside, even though I'm not a McCain fan, he was awesome on Saturday Night Live last night.

Personally, I think this might do more to sway undecided voters to McCain, because we finally got to see a human side to him. He was very warm and very funny. Way better than Palin was two weeks ago.

I think this will help him overcome some of the negativity that has plagued his campaign lately. And it didn't cost him a cent! Brilliant, I say....

 

[Rich]

Brilliant, I say....

You say brilliant . . . I say desperate. I mean, come on, it really is kind of sad. Nothing they do is working so they keep trying to throw something else at the wall to see if it will stick. But both of them appearing on Saturday Night Live in the final weeks before the election? This is a time of serious crisis for our nation. There are many very serious issues in this election that the next president will have to deal with. And McCain is trying to gain popularity by appearing on a comedy show? The same McCain who cancelled Letterman because he didn't think the timing was "appropriate for comedy?" It just blows my mind that anyone is taking this campaign seriously.

I didn't watch the show, so I can't comment on his performance. Glad to hear it was good. It may be his last blast of fame.

 

[TrumpetDoug]

You say brilliant . . . I say desperate. I mean, come on, it really is kind of sad. Nothing they do is working so they keep trying to throw something else at the wall to see if it will stick. But both of them appearing on Saturday Night Live in the final weeks before the election? This is a time of serious crisis for our nation. There are many very serious issues in this election that the next president will have to deal with. And McCain is trying to gain popularity by appearing on a comedy show? The same McCain who cancelled Letterman because he didn't think the timing was "appropriate for comedy?" It just blows my mind that anyone is taking this campaign seriously.
.

Hey Rich take a breath will ya. Yes about every other voting age person you walk by on the street or pass by in your car is taking McCain's campaign very seriously. "It just blows my mind" that you can't see that.

Doug - out

 

[tonepub]

Again, I'm no McCain supporter, but I think in the sprit of fairness, you have to give credit where credit is due. Desperate perhaps, but I always have a soft spot for someone who can take a minute to laugh at themselves.

That doesn't mean I want John McCain for president.

There has been too much character assassination on both sides of the fence...

 

[Gordon Gray]

So ML Amigos,

What are we going to do come Wednesday AM, after the dust has settled?

I'd like to pose a hypothetical.

If you support one candidate and the other one wins, will you be willing to accept the voting outcome and support the winner?

GG

 

[tonepub]

You bet. It's still America and we have to pull together to address the issues, no matter who's in charge.

 

[DrJRapp]

So ML Amigos,

What are we going to do come Wednesday AM, after the dust has settled?

I'd like to pose a hypothetical.

If you support one candidate and the other one wins, will you be willing to accept the voting outcome and support the winner?

GG

We really don't have any option...do we??? LOL The good part is...if we don't like the results we can try again in 4 years.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Jerry,

True for "open minded" folks that want the best that this wonderful country stands for and desire that we all move forward in a positive / productive / unified manner.

But I do wonder if the current, dare I say divisive environment that exists before the election will carry over after 11/4.

I trully hope not but I do wonder.

GG

 

[DrJRapp]

But I do wonder if the current, dare I say divisive environment that exists before the election will carry over after 11/4.

I trully hope not but I do wonder.

GG

They say that politics makes for strange bedfellows. Barak and Hillary went through much devisivness but kissed and made up.

 

[Len44]

So ML Amigos,

What are we going to do come Wednesday AM, after the dust has settled?

I'd like to pose a hypothetical.

If you support one candidate and the other one wins, will you be willing to accept the voting outcome and support the winner?

GG

Yes, absolutely! Because...because...HE WON'T BE GEORGE BUSH!!!

 

[Len44]

3 to 6 points is a very slim margin with 1 out of 7 (14%) still undecided after the gizillion dollars Obama has spent on advertising and TV prime time. Even worse when you consider the media bias in his favor. Not opinion just math.

I will be dissapointed no matter who wins. I will be dissapointed that we live in a land where our candidates have to undergo so much scrutiny and ridicule that nobody worth their salt wants to run. No matter who wins we are in deep do-do. McCain lacks the support of Congress and Obama lacks...well let's just say he lacks and leave it at that OK!

Yeah, I agree with you that all the scrutiny is a bit much. I pretty much blame Gary Hart, for his infamous "Why don't you follow me" comment (which, of course, they [the press] did -- right to his boat named -- of all things, "Monkey Business.")

But you know, it hardly seems fair to complain about how much the Obama campaign is spending this year, after the Dems were Bushwhacked in 2000 & 2004 with Bush WAY outspending [some saying he "Bought" the Presidency...] his Democratic rivals. The amounts were just obscene!

Not to even mention [well, guess I will] those extremely well-funded, lying "swiftboaters," who seemingly wouldn't know the real truth if it smacked them in the mouth. I mean, really, on the one hand we had a war hero, wounded in battle, no less -- compared to a draft-dodging, daddy-quick-get-me-in-the-Guard-so-I-don't-have-to-go-to-'Nam turkey who then essentially went AWOL. And there were other shadow groups ensuring the Bush campaign never, ever lacked $$$$$$$$$$$.

Bush pretty much lied and cheated his way to winning (well, in 2004, anyway -- we all know that Bush actually did NOT win in 2000, but was anointed by the SCOTUS, stopping the vote count in Florida).

In 2004 the Bush campaign directed that polling places be shut down even though voters still standing in line, especially in critical Ohio. Sadly, John McCain is getting "beat up" for some of Bush's sins. I really like McCain -- or at least the McCain of 2000 -- but I am extremely disappointed by his allowing the scummy minions of Karl Rove to infect his campaign with almost as much low-roadism as Bush himself used AGAINST McCain in the 2000 primary campaign.

'Course, was quite sad the way McCain sold his soul / sold out to Bush in 2004... And now it seems McCain doesn't even know Bush...

BTW, I would tend to disagree that Obama lacks in any important area. He surely is far more likely to be able to unite that Country than Bush -- or McCain, for that matter. Bush has just made it so very difficult for ANY Republican.

And then, just when you thought Republicans could stoop no lower, along comes Liddy Dole with her slanderous "There is no God" ad. I hope she gets the result she deserves, after pulling a stunt like that!

 

[HsvToolFool]

If you support one candidate and the other one wins, will you be willing to accept the voting outcome and support the winner?

Absolutely!

Naturally, it's a given that my core beliefs as a conservative/
liberatian will not change. I will remain an opponent to wealth
redistribution, class and race warfare, judicial activism, and other
moribund socialist ideologies and manipulations. I'll never
support Obama's policies, but it's a given I will acknowledge
him as US President should he win.

I suspect everyone's greatest fear is another Dangling Chad
nightmare. I expect both Parties and the FBI will be on full
DefCon5 alert for voter fraud, which should ensure a cleaner-
than-normal election. Then again, it may ensure gobs of
messy unwarranted legal wrangling where no fraud exists.