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looks like a great setup. sorry to nag you for the pics but I just want to see it you probably are far from done tweeking your system yet. I hate to notice but it seems a shame not to have a seat directly in the sweetspot? I gave up an extra seat in my HT so I could be directly in the center and it is well worth it.

your diagrams look nice
 
FISH_MAN - Disregard the couch setup in the diagram. I indeed have 4 theater seats and there is no arm rest between the two middle ones so I am smack in the middle. There are theater wedges on the side seats for holding drinks...

C.A.P. - Thanks for the additional insight. I am dedicated this afternoon to moving my subs around to try and identify best placement regardless of aesthetic. i can then work backwards from there. I will add your recommendation to the mix and will research the link.

My game plan is to get each speaker and sub as best I can get it without treatments and then start introducing my realtraps. I have 4 Mondo corner Bass Traps, 2 HF traps, 3 Mini-Traps and 2 regular bass traps.

In general, I continue to have dropouts in my graphs at 200 and 15k. Any recommendations from the crowd on how to best address these "suck outs"?

Thanks all for your continued input.
 
One thing that might help you, if it is practical, is to float some acoustic
panels from the ceiling. I've got a peaked ceiling and in my room, that was the last touch that really evened things out a lot and gave me a lot more depth to the presentation...

It will take a fair amount of experimenting, but when you get it right, the overall balance will improve tremendously. That peaked ceiling is probably hurting you somewhat...
 
Very nice room layout pic. What software did you use to create it, and where did you get your ML templates from?
 
tonepub - I will definately consider the floating panels on the ceiling and acoustic treatments will come next after I exhaust all logical physical placements of my equipment. I have plenty of panels to do this with.

RichTeer - Thx. I used Visio since it is much quicker and easier than AutoCad (which I also have). The ML objects came from the Martin Logan pdf owners manuals which I screen captured, pasted into Photoshop, cropped and saved. I then re sized them in Visio to the proper scale.

Well today I found out that 1 of my RCA y-adapters is not working (soldered the wrong way) which might explain some of my bass challenges. I was essentially getting no Left channel to either of my subs. Go figure. Below is the latest response curve of my room with only 1 of my Descent i's hooked up. I was able to achive this with it in the current front position and simply playing with the 25Hz, 50Hz and phase adjustments on the sub. I clearly have a peak at around 38Hz and dips at 55, 200, 700 and 15k.

Little baby steps at this point...
 

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Well its been about 3 weeks now and I have at least 150 plus hours on my CLX's. I have tweaked and played with speaker positioning as well as acoustic panels. Below are some observations.

Its official, these things are awesome...

- You need to let these speakers break in. They sound exponentially better the more I play them. In particular the shallow bass concerns are a thing of the past. While I still prefer them paired with the Descent i's for the lower end, they certainly hold their own without the subs. I did not realize how much better they got until I turned off the subs for some measurements. I could tell immediately that they improved dramatically to my ears (the response curve shows this as well).

- The Descent i's with the CLX crossover create a nice seamless integration. I have tried the other sub crossover settings and the CLX setting definitely sounds the best.

- Having 2 subs is an advantage to smooth out the room but it takes a lot of patience and testing to get them sound their best. I tested these things everywhere and I ended up leaving them both in front between the TV and speakers. Having them behind me did not sound right to me as they seemed to localize and not appear to come from the speakers. The biggest improvements with the subs was playing with phases and the 25 and 50 Hz settings.

- When you have a less than ideal room, acoustic panels are essential to get even more out of these speakers. My bass was rolling and boomey and my highs were difficult to listen to for any period of time. I added 6 bass traps, 2 mini-traps and 2 High Frequency traps to the room and it made a really nice improvement. Listening at high volumes is doable for longer periods of time and bass is tight and there.

- Spiking both the subs and the CLX's was another nice improvement to tighten up the bass. I am on a concrete slab with no basement. Positioning the speakers was again critical. I toed them in using the flashlight method and these things can really image. A few family members swore I had my center channel and surrounds on.

- I am learning rather quickly that not all music is created equal and my system certainly reveals everything. I never considered myself a critical listener but I am quickly becoming one by default.

- I find myself adjusting the sub volumes between some CD/SACDs if they seem to be overwhelming or not have enough. Again, I think this goes back to the source material versus my system. I usually end up between 3 and 5 on the subs depending on material.

- I am sure I will continue to tweak but these things sounds really good right now. I have some experienced listeners coming over this evening for a session so I will find out quickly if they really sound as good as I think they do.

- Below I have posted some recent response curves showing the CLX's solo and then paired with my Descent's. I continue to have drop outs at 200 and 15 so any suggestions on how to address this would be helpful. I also have a peak between 30 and 40 on the low end. I have them both set at 3 (they go up to 11) and I have been able to help this problem some with the 25Hz filter. Suggestions are welcome.

- I will take some pics this week so you can get a sense of the room, speaker placement and treatments. I think I am close and I am certainly pleased with how they are coming together.
 

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Looks like you are making great progress in your CLX journey. I just spent many hours playing around with my CLXs over the holidays. Although tweeking the CLXs is great fun, I am still having problems holding on to things while playing certain music. I tend to jump when startled and that is bad when you have a drink in your hand. I have ruined two pair of pants and sooner or later the carpet is going to have to be replaced because it happens with the CLX at least once a weekend. Have you had a chance to play any 5.1 surround sound on your system yet? Have you played anything that startled you yet?
 
JMAUSGP - Thx. A journey is a good word for it. I don't startle very easily but your story is funny because my sister dropped her beer bottle the other day when I told her to sit down and listen to something. Not only do these speakers reproduce in your face detail but the absence of a noise floor with my EVO setup and CAST is so sick you hear nothing at all until the source kicks in.

I have also had some visits from neighbors wondering what was shaking the china on their walls. Houses are about 50 feet apart at least.

I have not tried 5.1 audio sources yet but once I get the 2-Channel where I want it, I will add that to the mix.

I have done multi-channel for blu-ray movies and it is pretty impressive so I would imagine 5.1 audio would be good as well.

Definitely having fun with this and learning quite a bit as I go.
 
I am headed home to fire up the system. I believe that you have hit the nail on the head. The journey is suppose to be fun and I think that the feeling of learning something new or rather the discovery of something new, which the CLX brings almost every time you listen, is what makes it fun! I usually end up shaking my head in astonishment at least a couple times a night, now that is fun!:D
 
MGA - resize that last graph if poss - it's too wide to read the text! Barnard has a go at me for it on my system page.

Don't worry about the HF drop. That'll stop the nasty CD harshness blues syndrome, I think.

Great last post - glad you're happy. If you're finding some material sounds bad I'd hook in some tubes as a temporary experiment if you can at some stage - just borrow some from a dealer a few months down the line. It is DEFINATELY worth the experiment to satisfy your own curiousity. At least that way you will know. Whilst they won't make bad material sound great, they should make it a lot more pleasant/tolerable. Caveat - you need the right tube amp. The French Jadis amps will be worth a try... and are a world apart from the Evos. A great contrast in performance, anyway, which the CLX will expose as clear as day.

If you are getting hyper-critical about what you are hearing and you decide you don't like it at the end of the day, the Jadis will be a real antidote. I can't say if you will prefer a good tube amp, but it is a must try at some stage.

Glad they are breaking in well. Happy listening.
 
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MGA - resize that last graph if poss - it's too wide to read the text! Barnard has a go at me for it on my system page.
I don't know about "Barnard", but I find it a pain having to scroll from side to side to read the text. It would be great if there were some way to get pictures automatically resized when they are submitted.
 
I don't know about "Barnard", but I find it a pain having to scroll from side to side to read the text. It would be great if there were some way to get pictures automatically resized when they are submitted.

Opps! Soz Bernard!

A lot depends on your monitor and settings. On a 24 inch widescreen running at 1920 by 1200 it's fine.

BTW: The tube amp idea is worth a shot for 2 channel only. Also, I appreciate it might seem like an extreme suggestion, given your investment in Evos. But it might be worth a try if you have the funds to support both SS and tube!:) Might be a bit constrained for space, though.
 
Opps! Soz Bernard!

A lot depends on your monitor and settings. On a 24 inch widescreen running at 1920 by 1200 it's fine.

That's exactly what I have here, and the pics are too big. Not everyone runs every app (including their web browser) at full screen...
 
That's a pretty subjective call, RichTeer. Even windowed (i.e. not full screen for the benefit of all - my wife is critising me asking what I mean!), at quite a modest size at the quoted res, they look OK to me.

Bernard's problem, I believe, was at full screen he had to use the scroll bar to read the text. And at 1280 x 768 on what I am using at the moment, at full screen you have to scroll to read the text with the graphs.

Anyway, as we usually say, back on topic!:)
 
Back on topic, you would notice a big improvement from upgrading the KCAG. They are good cables but not on the same class as the rest of your system or as their big brothers Kimber Select. You'd love them, far more musical with more emphasis on the melody and pitch rather than overfocussing on leading edge of notes - bigger soundstage very engaging and musical. There are of course multiple alternatives to Kimber but let's not go there especially when you're thoroughly Kimbered .. and why not I like them too
 
dougster - for my 2-channel setup I only have KCAG currently between my Krell Standard SACD and EVO 202. They are 1.0m balanced KCAG. I am then running Transparent CAST from my 202 to my 402. I then have Monocle XL's to my speakers (15ft pair).

Once I upgrade to the EVO 505 then I will have pure CAST system with Monocle XL's to speakers.

Are you saying I should upgrade my KCAG balanced interconnects? Or did you mean I should upgrade my Monocle XL's? As stated above, the KCAG interconnects will be replaced with CAST when I get the EVO 505.

User211 - I am sensing a theme with you... I have three equipment items on my list to try: tube amp, turntable, EVO 505. Once I better understand my existing components then I will introduce these new variables. I have zero reference to tube amps, minimal exposure to turntables and the 505 is a no brainer for me.

I had a few experienced listeners over the other night and they confirmed the system is dialed in. Some of them have heard the CLX's before at demos and confirmed they sounded much better in my room. The other is a long time Prodigy user who confirmed my system blew his away and sounded more like a $100k speaker system he had hear a few months ago. This is all very subjective but encouraging to me and I will continue to look for constructive criticism so I can improve the system. At least I am on the right path.

I will re-post graphs and upload some system shots this weekend when I get home.
 
dougster
Once I upgrade to the EVO 505 then I will have pure CAST system with Monocle XL's to speakers.

Are you saying I should upgrade my KCAG balanced interconnects? Or did you mean I should upgrade my Monocle XL's? As stated above, the KCAG interconnects will be replaced with CAST when I get the EVO 505.

.

Hi, Yes I meant the KCAG interconnect would be best replaced in such a fantastic system as yours. The CAST plan will obviously remove that small deviation from excellent to the merely very good!!

Incidentally is your sub set too high? from your graphs... How does it sound - the peak is at very low frequency and would be evident only on a minority of music programme to check it out fully

Have fun
 
TomDac - Thx for cleaning up the graphs.

Dougster - Thx for clarifying the KCAG question. If I go with tube amps at some point I will test out the Kimber Select stuff. CAST seems to be the way to go with the Krell EVO setup. My subs are both set to the 30/CLX setting and I vary them between 3 and 5 (they go to 11). They produce a very tight bass right now and seamlessly blend with the CLXs and the room. The experienced listeners I had over earlier this week commented that the subs sounded really good with the CLXs. I attribute this to the crossover as well as the positioning, treatment, phase settings and 25, 50hz filter settings. I will note that the LFE during movies seems to be a bit lacking with the CLX setting so I am experimenting with bypassing the crossover during movies by switching them to 35 crossover. More testing to do here though.

So I tried to hook up my fathers old Philips 877 turntable today to see how it would sound. I connected the RCA Left/Right to my EVO 202 Pre-Amp (S1) and when I played something I had to turn the Pre-Amp all the way up to even hear anything at all. Now I am a total newb with vinyl so I am sure I am doing something wrong or the turntable just is not working as it should. Is this a common problem with a bad cartridge maybe? Does the EVO 202 need special consideration for a phono input? There is no Phono input on the 202 but I would hope it would support a turntable input. I will be calling Krell for recommendations as well. I am just trying to figure this all out before I spring for a good turntable. Thx in advance.
 
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