New CLX Owner
- Thread starter mgakathereaper
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MiTT
Super User
If a person hasn't heard a truely well set up turntable they are always stunned when they hear just how much information lay waiting within the grooves of an LP. I routinely blow people away with my rather modest (by comparison to the ClearAudio Statement) set up. Most people can't believe first of all that it is as quiet as digital (not always, but usually). Then they comment about how deep it sounds on the low end, and how much dynamic range it has. I have yet to have anyone tell me that they prefer my digital set up to my analog rig, even with SACD.
At the level we're talking about with the Clearaudio Statement the best comparison would be something along the lines of a Formula 1 race car. It's built for one exact purpose.
you could be right. I do think it is waaaaaay past the point of diminishing returns maybe I have not eaten enough black pizza yet to understand just as someone may not understand why the statement e2's are where created.I just thought it looked ridiculous when I first saw it on needle doctors website and then here.
tonepub
Senior Member
While it may be past the point of diminishing returns for you, your system and your budget, it may not for the man that has the room, the system and the money (and the record collection) to afford it.
Having met quite a few people with 10 or 20 thousand records (or more) a hundred thousand dollar turntable isn't as crazy as it might seem. It's certainly more than I'd ever spend on a turntable, but these are made in pretty small numbers.
The top few percent of the income bracket is a very different animal.
With people paying a thousand dollars for a "hot stamper" pressing of Steely Dan's Aja and 1500 bucks a pop for original blue notes, that's only about 75 records for the price of that table.....
Having met quite a few people with 10 or 20 thousand records (or more) a hundred thousand dollar turntable isn't as crazy as it might seem. It's certainly more than I'd ever spend on a turntable, but these are made in pretty small numbers.
The top few percent of the income bracket is a very different animal.
With people paying a thousand dollars for a "hot stamper" pressing of Steely Dan's Aja and 1500 bucks a pop for original blue notes, that's only about 75 records for the price of that table.....
Even if I never played any vinyl on it. Which I won't at the cost of it but, I could stare at it all day for the shear beauty of the design and construction.
DTB300
Well-known member
Exactly!!!
Look at other items/goods outside of audio and you will find the same extremes in pricing. If people want it and are willing to pay the price, then companies will make it. Simple business practice.
tonepub
Senior Member
And a fair amount of that upper income bracket wants something that the regular guys like you and me can't afford....
Hence the Continuum.
When we had it here, we had identical Dynavector XV-1s carts on the Continuum and a Rega P9, the Raven Two and an SME20/2. Everything else in the system was identical and we even had duplicate pressings from MoFi that were only one stamper number apart.
The P9 offered up about 75% of the sound of the Continuum, which was amazing, considering the table and arm are only $4995. The Raven Two with SME iV.Vi was very close but not quite, either way, not $43 thousand better and the SME 20/2 with an SME iV.Vi was virtually identical.
So for 12-17 thousand if all you want is the sound quality, the Continuum is a waste of money. But, if you want the cool factor that you won't see everywhere and money is no object, there you go.
It's the same reason people buy a Bentley instead of a Mercedes, etc. etc.
Hence the Continuum.
When we had it here, we had identical Dynavector XV-1s carts on the Continuum and a Rega P9, the Raven Two and an SME20/2. Everything else in the system was identical and we even had duplicate pressings from MoFi that were only one stamper number apart.
The P9 offered up about 75% of the sound of the Continuum, which was amazing, considering the table and arm are only $4995. The Raven Two with SME iV.Vi was very close but not quite, either way, not $43 thousand better and the SME 20/2 with an SME iV.Vi was virtually identical.
So for 12-17 thousand if all you want is the sound quality, the Continuum is a waste of money. But, if you want the cool factor that you won't see everywhere and money is no object, there you go.
It's the same reason people buy a Bentley instead of a Mercedes, etc. etc.
You know Jeff, I too am a fan of Rega'a tables from the P-5 upward, but I must admitt their P-1 is joke in my book......using MDF for a platter material, give me a break ! I know it's an inexspensive table but charge an extra couple of bucks for a better material. FWIW, if buying an entry table in that price range I'd go with ProJect or Music Hall.
mgakathereaper
Well-known member
Well it's week #6 and still no CLX's... the latest update says they should ship today but I have heard that a few times already. I will continue to wait since there is nothing else I can do.
User211
Well-known member
Well hopefully they'll make it before Xmas... but it's hard NOT to think Xmas shipping might be a bit slower than usual. Finger's crossed!
tonepub
Senior Member
Yeah Christmas shipping is always a zoo.
Best of luck, hope you get em soon. I know I was on pins and needles
waiting for mine and when the freight company said they were lost, I went
pretty beserker for a couple of days!
Best of luck, hope you get em soon. I know I was on pins and needles
waiting for mine and when the freight company said they were lost, I went
pretty beserker for a couple of days!
mgakathereaper
Well-known member
Well my original hope was for Thanksgiving and clearly that did not happen. Having them for Christmas and New Years would be good at this point since I will be having people over. I would like to get them tweaked and broken in before I put someone else in front of them but we will see.
I am sure I will forget all about the wait once I start listening to them...
I am sure I will forget all about the wait once I start listening to them...
tonepub
Senior Member
The good news is that they sound pretty amazing right out of the box. After 24 hrs. you'll be settling right in.
mgakathereaper
Well-known member
Santa came early and my CLX's arrived last night. They looked like coffins in the boxes and the speakers themselves were nicely wrapped in black felt bags. I have begun breaking them in and it seems I have a lot of tweaking to do. My room may not allow them to fully open up but I knew that was a risk before buying.
I will provide room dimensions, openings, pictures, etc to help folk visualize what I am dealing with but I wanted to get a quick assessment before I get knee deep into analysis and tweaking.
Initial impressions:
I knew I was going to have some challenges with my room and initial listening has definitely proved this. I attribute most of my initial comments to a challenging environment versus speaker issues.
To minimize any other variables I removed all acoustic treatments and disconnected all subs and speakers except for the CLX's. I wanted to see what they could do solo before introducing subs and treatments.
I have the speakers positioned about 3 feet off the front wall and 2 feet from the sidewalls (note the 3 feet is from wall to the front of the speaker). Also note that the room is open on the sides so essentially there is no sidewall. The distance from center to center of the CLX's is about 9ft and my seating position is about 12ft from ear to front of panels. The speakers are slightly toed in using the flashlight 1/3 rule of thumb.
I will be using the system for 2-Channel as well as Theater so I have a 73" Mits TV in between the speakers.
They are not broken in yet but without the subs the bass seems to be really lacking. I am used to feeling it in my chest and they seem very shallow. I know my room has an issue with bass response so I am sure this has something to do with it. Even if I walk around the room I cannot seem to find the bass. Keep in mind I have been listening to (2) Descent's with my other setup so coming from that I guess anything will sound shallow.
Since a lot of this is subjective, I decided to do a quick analysis of the room using my Anthem Statement D2. I utilized the ARC (Anthem Room Correction) software to measure my room to see what the response looked like. I have attached a screen shot of the Left and Right response with the setup described above. These are measurements taken from the prime seating position. Comments and observations are welcome.
I know I have plenty of things to try to get these things to sing but again my room might be limiting. I have numerous things to try so I will continue to share my journey trying to set these things up. Not sure if I should start a new thread in General Discussion versus here.
I will post my room diagram and such in another response. I have put the CLX crossovers in my Descents and will run some tests with those as well.
I will provide room dimensions, openings, pictures, etc to help folk visualize what I am dealing with but I wanted to get a quick assessment before I get knee deep into analysis and tweaking.
Initial impressions:
I knew I was going to have some challenges with my room and initial listening has definitely proved this. I attribute most of my initial comments to a challenging environment versus speaker issues.
To minimize any other variables I removed all acoustic treatments and disconnected all subs and speakers except for the CLX's. I wanted to see what they could do solo before introducing subs and treatments.
I have the speakers positioned about 3 feet off the front wall and 2 feet from the sidewalls (note the 3 feet is from wall to the front of the speaker). Also note that the room is open on the sides so essentially there is no sidewall. The distance from center to center of the CLX's is about 9ft and my seating position is about 12ft from ear to front of panels. The speakers are slightly toed in using the flashlight 1/3 rule of thumb.
I will be using the system for 2-Channel as well as Theater so I have a 73" Mits TV in between the speakers.
They are not broken in yet but without the subs the bass seems to be really lacking. I am used to feeling it in my chest and they seem very shallow. I know my room has an issue with bass response so I am sure this has something to do with it. Even if I walk around the room I cannot seem to find the bass. Keep in mind I have been listening to (2) Descent's with my other setup so coming from that I guess anything will sound shallow.
Since a lot of this is subjective, I decided to do a quick analysis of the room using my Anthem Statement D2. I utilized the ARC (Anthem Room Correction) software to measure my room to see what the response looked like. I have attached a screen shot of the Left and Right response with the setup described above. These are measurements taken from the prime seating position. Comments and observations are welcome.
I know I have plenty of things to try to get these things to sing but again my room might be limiting. I have numerous things to try so I will continue to share my journey trying to set these things up. Not sure if I should start a new thread in General Discussion versus here.
I will post my room diagram and such in another response. I have put the CLX crossovers in my Descents and will run some tests with those as well.
Attachments
User211
Well-known member
Must admit the graphs seem to show what you are hearing - surprised the LF response drops so sharply at around 65-70Hz - I was expecting a bit better than that.
To be honest, they don't sound bass light driven with Jadis JA200s - but there is no true deep bass with that setup either, having said that. However, the Jadis is a rich sounding amp, and the Krell EVOS are not.
I wasn't expecting the suckouts at around 200Hz and 15KHz either. Those Descents are going to need to kick in at higher than usual levels - presumably the purpose of the CLX setting. Overall it doesn't look bad, though. Just not much LF extension. But we knew that anyway.
I think you are going to need to plug those Descents in.
To be honest, they don't sound bass light driven with Jadis JA200s - but there is no true deep bass with that setup either, having said that. However, the Jadis is a rich sounding amp, and the Krell EVOS are not.
I wasn't expecting the suckouts at around 200Hz and 15KHz either. Those Descents are going to need to kick in at higher than usual levels - presumably the purpose of the CLX setting. Overall it doesn't look bad, though. Just not much LF extension. But we knew that anyway.
I think you are going to need to plug those Descents in.
mgakathereaper
Well-known member
Alright - I moved them out a bit so they are 11ft wide center to center and I am still at 12ft back so I am closer to an equilateral.
Imaging has snapped into place and center stage is pretty damn good right now. I can tell they are starting to break in as the bass response appears to be coming around. I can feel the bass (w/o subs) when I crank it up a bit and have material that I know has bass. This is all encouraging...
I next hooked up my Descent i's with both set to CLX setting. I know I still have bass issues but damn when it hits at certain frequencies it sends out a shock wave. I definitely need to control some of this but lack of bass is not an issue. Sub woofer placement and my bass traps should help tighten this up.
I still have a ways to go and I have not even spiked anything yet so I will continue to work the room. Pics and such will probably come tomorrow since I have to step now. I will continue to let speakers break in while I am out.
I will get some graphs of the response with the CLX's in the loop as well.
Imaging has snapped into place and center stage is pretty damn good right now. I can tell they are starting to break in as the bass response appears to be coming around. I can feel the bass (w/o subs) when I crank it up a bit and have material that I know has bass. This is all encouraging...
I next hooked up my Descent i's with both set to CLX setting. I know I still have bass issues but damn when it hits at certain frequencies it sends out a shock wave. I definitely need to control some of this but lack of bass is not an issue. Sub woofer placement and my bass traps should help tighten this up.
I still have a ways to go and I have not even spiked anything yet so I will continue to work the room. Pics and such will probably come tomorrow since I have to step now. I will continue to let speakers break in while I am out.
I will get some graphs of the response with the CLX's in the loop as well.
mgakathereaper
Well-known member
Attached are three scaled diagrams that show my room dimensions and furniture. I will send along some pics to complete the picture for you but this should give you an idea of what I have.
Keep in mind I have a 73" TV in the middle with a Stage under it and the speakers and subs are where they currently reside and sound best so far.
Note that the speakers sound the best so far right on the sidewalls and moving them further into the room minimizes the imaging at the sweet spot.
Note I originally had the subs behind the CLX's in the corners but response was horrible. I may even dable with putting the subs behind me in the corners for testing purposes.
Note in the front elevation that the entire left wall is open to a loft upstairs and yes the ceiling is vaulted from right to left as seen in the diagram. The big diamond in the middle of the wall is some art so disregard that.
Keep in mind I have a 73" TV in the middle with a Stage under it and the speakers and subs are where they currently reside and sound best so far.
Note that the speakers sound the best so far right on the sidewalls and moving them further into the room minimizes the imaging at the sweet spot.
Note I originally had the subs behind the CLX's in the corners but response was horrible. I may even dable with putting the subs behind me in the corners for testing purposes.
Note in the front elevation that the entire left wall is open to a loft upstairs and yes the ceiling is vaulted from right to left as seen in the diagram. The big diamond in the middle of the wall is some art so disregard that.
Attachments
Try one in the center and one directly behind you. Its a Harmon recommended
method that was tested and showed the best response.
Very nice blue prints. you must have CAD access, or something a long the lines . Here is the Link its
http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/multsubs.pdf
I wouldn't worry as much about them being a bit tight to the side walls as they are full range not hy brids and will not play with the phase of the woofer. Lately I have been listening to my CLS with a wide footprint. The side wall does not effect them as much as other designs. I actually picked up some bass reinforcement that was welcome effect.
method that was tested and showed the best response.
Very nice blue prints. you must have CAD access, or something a long the lines . Here is the Link its
http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/multsubs.pdf
I wouldn't worry as much about them being a bit tight to the side walls as they are full range not hy brids and will not play with the phase of the woofer. Lately I have been listening to my CLS with a wide footprint. The side wall does not effect them as much as other designs. I actually picked up some bass reinforcement that was welcome effect.
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