ML Production moving
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Or, perhaps (considering the season), tuque-firmly-in-cheek?
I actually have a tuque with ML Logo on it, and I promise to wear it if we ever visit the new diggs in the Great White North.
I don't think anyone is insulting the Canadians or questioning their ability to build a good product. But we are certainly questioning the honesty and integrity of Martin Logan management and the future direction of the company. It seems pretty clear that they have decided to merge Martin Logan with (gasp) a box/cone speaker company (which just happens to be located in Canada). And it seems equally clear that they tried to do this as secretly as possible, while at the same time trying to build up the perception of the American heritage of the company with the "Great American Speaker Company" and "Speakers From the Heartland" marketing campaign. I really don't have a lot of faith in a company that says one thing while its doing another.
I do want to do a little more research on this "UnSureView" though. I think Adanny might be on to something.
I do want to do a little more research on this "UnSureView" though. I think Adanny might be on to something.
A little more research pulled up Tim Valter's Linked in profile. You can read it HERE.
He is Canadian, no surprise. He was hired just under a year ago. Interestingly, his title is listed as President and CEO of Paradigm/Martin Logan Electronics based in the Toronto, Canada area! Sounds like they have actually merged these brands and just forgot to mention it to everyone.
Well, yes, it certainly sounds like Shoreview is committed to high end audio and the great legacy of Martin Logan Speakers (apparently now to be renamed the Great Canadian Speaker Company).
Well, I imagine Mr. Valters is a highly personable, very driven young man who will be seeking to add some polish to his resume, which could be of some benefit to us (depending...). I, too, wish he had more of background in the industry (although I am not entirely convinced this is critical).
I would, however, most certainly like to think that if one of us were in his shoes, or those of a senior leader at Shoreview, that we would have long ago jumped in here to reassure the major proponents and customers of Martin-Logan products of their absolute commitment to continuing the very high standards in quality and customer service to which we have become accustomed.
I am disappointed that this has not yet happened, as well as disappointed with the way this whole matter has been handled to date (stealth mode, etc.)
I would like to think they are better (and smarter) than choosing to ignore their core customers.
perhaps the US is not the core customer base?
robertawillisjr
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Now wouldn't we all be a bit suprised if Mr. Valters had a set of CLX's in his home. Would that cause us to be less anxious?
This site is accessible internationally, and many of our members are from outside the US.
Not engaging with the core supporters of the brand is a big mistake IMHO.
Beyond the lifetime value of each of us as repeat customers, we are influencers on other people's perception of the brand and its products.
These days, that has the power to negate or reinforce any companies marketing message.
Good companies like their customers, great companies love their fans.
raygunn
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Business Retention in Lawrence
This is interesting time...
http://www2.ljworld.com/classifieds/employment/sales-marketing/6010/
...and a bit too late!!!!
This is interesting time...
http://www2.ljworld.com/classifieds/employment/sales-marketing/6010/
...and a bit too late!!!!
I would never disagree with this Jon I just wonder how much of the market the foreigners make up? I imagine a lot.
Now wouldn't we all be a bit suprised if Mr. Valters had a set of CLX's in his home. Would that cause us to be less anxious?
Yes, I would be surprised. And no, it wouldn't make me less anxious. Just because I own a Mercedes roadster doesn't mean I have the experience, ability, and vision to run one of the world's premier auto companies. What if you found out his favorite speakers are Bose acoustimass? Would it make you any less optimistic?
Agreed. It seems they are willing to engage us when it suits their marketing ends (i.e., getting the moderators to audition the new Motion series) but then ignore us, or worse yet, offer us empty platitudes, on a subject as serious as the future direction of the company and the fact that it has been merged with another speaker company.
I think you are correct. Ever since Shoreview took over they have been working hard to increase international sales. And I suppose it is probably true that most international buyers don't really care whether MLs are made in Kansas or Canada.
My bigger concern is that they are working hard to shift the bulk of their market share to the home theater and whole-house audio market. With an emphasis on this market, there may well be little desire to produce the high end speakers.
Does anyone here own any Paradigm speakers?
I am curious if anyone has owned or auditioned Paradigm speakers and what they think of them? I haven't ever heard or seen any, but from what I have read they seem to garner good reviews (for whatever that's worth). The reason I ask is because I think we should all expect that the next generation of Martin Logan hybrid ESL speakers will contain Paradigm drivers for their cone speakers.
I say this because the factory which they are moving ESL production to manufactures all the Paradigm speaker drivers in-house to cut out the middle-man. No reason to think they would continue to outsource the speaker drivers for Martin Logan speakers when they are already set up to produce them in-house.
Now before you all jump on me, please be clear: I am not saying this is necessarily a negative. It may very well be a positive. I have no information on which to base a guess whether it would be good or bad. I am simply asking whether anyone is personally familiar with Paradigm speakers to offer up some clues on what this merger of brands may mean for us ML lovers in the longer term.
I am curious if anyone has owned or auditioned Paradigm speakers and what they think of them? I haven't ever heard or seen any, but from what I have read they seem to garner good reviews (for whatever that's worth). The reason I ask is because I think we should all expect that the next generation of Martin Logan hybrid ESL speakers will contain Paradigm drivers for their cone speakers.
I say this because the factory which they are moving ESL production to manufactures all the Paradigm speaker drivers in-house to cut out the middle-man. No reason to think they would continue to outsource the speaker drivers for Martin Logan speakers when they are already set up to produce them in-house.
Now before you all jump on me, please be clear: I am not saying this is necessarily a negative. It may very well be a positive. I have no information on which to base a guess whether it would be good or bad. I am simply asking whether anyone is personally familiar with Paradigm speakers to offer up some clues on what this merger of brands may mean for us ML lovers in the longer term.
Horchem1972
Well-known member
If they use the same in house drivers as Paradigm,it should reduce the cost significantly.Paradigm speakers are known for exceptional build and sound quality per dollar spent.They keep prices lower by doing everything in house and not outsourcing.I will be curious if ML does this trend or decides to pocket all of the extra profits.I lean towards pocketing it all.If quality remains the same,the moving argument is a moot point.All the prices for vintage ML gear has gone up by a large amount since Gayle Sanders has left.An example is the huge jump for the price for panels and drivers.Please explain why a woofer that has not been changed in 25 years is $250-$300.Woofer technology has increased by leaps and bounds in the last 5 years let alone in the last 25.I do think the price of panels going to $900 to $1500 is also too large of an increase.All of this happened after Mr. Sanders left the company and nobody really gave it a second thought.This was the start of it is only about the profit phase.Vintage owners were angered at the increases and newer product owners said well at least they still make panels.If moving increases their profits that is all they care about.People are angered that they do not come on this forum and answer questions.Wake up people.They do not care what you or anyone thinks as long as you keep feeding their pockets with your money.That is the bottom line and either live with it or simply put,do not buy from them.
Bernard
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Do we know for a fact that Paradigm make their own drivers?
Horchem1972
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Yes they do.
aliveatfive
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Rich -
I have a small, second set-up in my living room. It consists of diy Dynaco amps and a grounded-grid preamp. I've used 3 sets of speakers in this system. The first set was a modified pair of Rat-Shack Linnaeum tweeter bookshelfs. For very little money, they sounded adaquate. The second set was a pair of Paradigm Studio 20's. They improved on the first pair's bass response, but little else. They originally cost about $800. I later replaced these with a pair of Stirling LS3/5a's. The last pair blew away the Paradigms, admittedly at a somewhat higher cost. I'd say the Paradigms were pretty much average for their price class.
Bernard,
Here is an article describing a tour of the new factory where the ESL production is being moved. It answers your question and probably some others. (It is in .pdf format.) Here is the link: Paradigm Factory Tour
Aliveatfive, thanks for relating your experience.
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asindc
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I auditioned Paradigm Studio 100 v.3 before I bought my first pair of MLs, the Ascent-i. The Studio 100's came in a close second among all the speakers I auditioned (Sonus Faber, Polk, Von Schweikert were among the others). The general reputation for Paradigm speakers is one of high value and good quality, which has been my experience. I was impressed enough with the Studio 100's that I bought a pair of Paradigm Reference SA-25 in-walls for my bedroom system. Here is a link to Stereophile's review of the Studio 100 v.3:
http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/105paradigm/#
FWIW and what is probably a coincidence......not!
A old friend of mine just set up a new Home Theater and I mean everthing. He started with a bare room. I gave him a list of components to shop for and he went to Magnolia at BB and came home with pretty much everything I put on his list, with one exception. I had listed Martin Logans for the 5.1 speakers and he brought back a 5.1 Paradigm system. My guess is the sales guy at BB made the argument that you know, same company, now the same factory, and he ended up buying Paradigm.
What can I say, the guy is not too swift when it comes to hifi, afterall he asks me for advice.
Anyway, I have only had time to see the system, I did not yet have time to listen, but the sub looks like a rolled horn, kind of strange looking. The Speakers looked nice but again as they say, we will see or is it we will hear.
A old friend of mine just set up a new Home Theater and I mean everthing. He started with a bare room. I gave him a list of components to shop for and he went to Magnolia at BB and came home with pretty much everything I put on his list, with one exception. I had listed Martin Logans for the 5.1 speakers and he brought back a 5.1 Paradigm system. My guess is the sales guy at BB made the argument that you know, same company, now the same factory, and he ended up buying Paradigm.
What can I say, the guy is not too swift when it comes to hifi, afterall he asks me for advice.
Anyway, I have only had time to see the system, I did not yet have time to listen, but the sub looks like a rolled horn, kind of strange looking. The Speakers looked nice but again as they say, we will see or is it we will hear.
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