thats a very, very good point and an analogy that made me think
ML Production moving
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thats a very, very good point and an analogy that made me think
Are they? I would not be so sure of this. The factory is already in existence and has been making Paradigm speakers. It is also known to be a highly automated facility, which cuts down on the number of production hires necessary. So, are they hiring new people to manufacture ML's? Or are they just stretching the work staff they already have to cover that extra production and relying mostly on automation to cut labor costs? Definitely, a dozen or so people in Kansas lost their jobs, but it is not so definite that jobs were added in Canada because of that transition.
My concern about the quality is that the type of hand-made love that went into manufacturing these speakers for so many years (as Craig alluded to in his post) and the incredible customer service they have been known for in the past will be what is lost in this transition.
At the same time, I understand there is a possibility that their commitment to quality may not change and this new factory may be able to manufacture even better speakers than we have been used to. They may be better able to push the limits of what is capable in the high end of ESL technology. Ultimately, in five years, ML's may very well be some of the best-built, most technologically-superior speakers on the market, with products that just blow away their current lineup. I certainly hope that is true. And if it is, we on this forum that decried this move will be the first to admit we were wrong and extoll the virtues of the new, global Martin Logan.
But up to this point, I just haven't seen any signs that this is going to be true. I don't see the commitment from them to pursue the high end zealously. I see a commitment to broaden their market share by aggressively pursuing the low-fi home theater markets and an effort to cut costs wherever possible. That seems to be where most of their R&D, marketing and production efforts have been focused the last couple of years.
Steelhead
Well-known member
Amen Rich.
I am strongly in favor of keeping ML production in Kansas, period.
I realize that business must adopt and my purchases (ReQuest & Summit) over a decade are a very small drop in a big bucket, but I still would like my "Great American Speaker" company to, ohh, I don't know, maybe be made in America perhaps?????
I don't blame Gayle Sanders for taking the coin (he earned it) but damn, I wish he kept ML intact.
I guess my idea of SET's and classic JBL's may come to fruition sooner rather than later.
I am strongly in favor of keeping ML production in Kansas, period.
I realize that business must adopt and my purchases (ReQuest & Summit) over a decade are a very small drop in a big bucket, but I still would like my "Great American Speaker" company to, ohh, I don't know, maybe be made in America perhaps?????
I don't blame Gayle Sanders for taking the coin (he earned it) but damn, I wish he kept ML intact.
I guess my idea of SET's and classic JBL's may come to fruition sooner rather than later.
This is pretty much my experience as well (except, sadly, never did the factory tour). I think many of us became ML enthusiasts after our first purchase, and became more and more enamored with both these terrific speakers as well as the company (made in USA, expertly (and lovingly?) hand-crafted by a small team of specialists, privately-held company, great-sounding speakers, etc.)
Led me purchase first the Aeon i, then the Ascent i, and finally the Summits.
Terrific speakers all. :music:
Like most, I am hoping for the best, as well as fearing the worst.
Time will tell.robertawillisjr
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When I saw the group picture of the assemblers, I couldn't help wondering how many of those very fine and proud craftsmen will be losing their jobs. We have been talking about lost jobs in the abstract, but that picture put it all in perspective. It shook me up.
they may loose that job but they will not loose their skill! you act like these people will be totally worthless after martin logan or something, get real man show them some more respect. efficiency leads to a higher standard of living for everybody.perhaps without this move Logans viability to begin with is in trouble all together you just do not know.
asindc
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The issue is not losing the skills, it is having a place to employ the skills, particularly where they live.
robertawillisjr
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You've got it twisted. I am showing them real respect and I am sorry that some of them may be losing jobs. It saddens me to see that happen.
Didn't say anything about anyone being worthless. Didn't say anything about ML's viability. Just said that I have a great deal of compassion for them. Look at the group picture and see how proud they look. I really feel of any of them that may lose jobs.
I just can't see how you would attack me for being compassionate.
No big surprise there.
Right, they have their skill. They know how to make ESL panels. That should serve them well in the job market in Lawrence, Kansas! Have you ever been to Lawrence, Kansas? It is not exactly teeming with production jobs.
He showed quite a bit of respect for them by showing compassion for their loss and hardship. Your post, however, seems quite callous.
Not likely. These sorts of cost-cutting moves are part of the profit strategy of Shoreview for every company they purchase. It has nothing to do with ML's continued viability, and everything to do with Shoreview maximizing their profits from their investment.
DrJRapp
Well-known member
This thread seems to just be repetitively spiraling downward. Has everyone had time to vent their frustration with how powerless we are over Shoreviews actions? Perhaps it is time to close this thread?
that's what I thought as well.
If you don't like the content of the discussions in this thread, then don't read it. Simple solution.
Well over a dozen members of the forum seem to find it to be an interesting discussion to participate in. You would censor their ability to discuss what they consider to be an important issue simply because you disagree with their desire to vent some frustrations at Martin Logan management?
Tom, Tim, and Dave exercise proper moderation to try to keep discussions civil. They don't practice outright censorship to ensure that all discussions reflect a positive light on Martin Logan the company, at least not that I have ever noticed.
Well over a dozen members of the forum seem to find it to be an interesting discussion to participate in. You would censor their ability to discuss what they consider to be an important issue simply because you disagree with their desire to vent some frustrations at Martin Logan management?
Tom, Tim, and Dave exercise proper moderation to try to keep discussions civil. They don't practice outright censorship to ensure that all discussions reflect a positive light on Martin Logan the company, at least not that I have ever noticed.
Jungle Jack
Well-known member
Hello,
I could not agree more. This thread has merit. Again, the shifting of production was done with the least possible publicity. It took an article from a local Kansas Newspaper to even bring the event to light. No coverage in any of the A/V World.
Cheers,
ML
I could not agree more. This thread has merit. Again, the shifting of production was done with the least possible publicity. It took an article from a local Kansas Newspaper to even bring the event to light. No coverage in any of the A/V World.
Cheers,
ML
You never know but a more likely scenario would be one or more of the skilled craftsmen have ideas and dreams of their own on how to make a great speaker. The difference is now they have the motivation, they need a way to make a living at what they know. I can imagine many a company has started this way.
thats what I am talking about ! that is the American way and a positive outlook. it's to bad that some have such a close minded and negative attitude, well to bad for them lol
Jungle Jack
Well-known member
Hello,
One more point. Martin Logan announced record sales this year. Given this, the idea that ML moved production to keep the company in business rings hollow to me. Even if it is a symbolic move, keeping production of the upper range ESL Series really would have allowed them to stake claim to their being "The Great American Speaker Company"
Cheers,
ML
One more point. Martin Logan announced record sales this year. Given this, the idea that ML moved production to keep the company in business rings hollow to me. Even if it is a symbolic move, keeping production of the upper range ESL Series really would have allowed them to stake claim to their being "The Great American Speaker Company"
Cheers,
ML
Pcar928fan
Well-known member
This is pretty much my experience as well (except, sadly, never did the factory tour). I think many of us became ML enthusiasts after our first purchase, and became more and more enamored with both these terrific speakers as well as the company (made in USA, expertly (and lovingly?) hand-crafted by a small team of specialists, privately-held company, great-sounding speakers, etc.)
Led me purchase first the Aeon i, then the Ascent i, and finally the Summits.
Terrific speakers all. :music:
Like most, I am hoping for the best, as well as fearing the worst.
I am with you Len...the looks of the speakers brought me in first... then I bought my Ascent...LOVED THEM!!! Added a Cinema and Descent, then Aerius i and then Prodigy and changed out the Cinema to a Theater and added Scripts!
Became an enthusiast after my first purchase and then had some reasons to call ML in KS and was TOTALLY BLOWN AWAY by the service and commitment! I can tell you I won't be likely to pick up the phone to call Canada when I have a question!
As noted America has moved from being a nation that produces EVERYTHING to one that imports so much and only invests...very sad and will be the downfall of our great nation soon. Few great empires or society's have lasted more than 200 years... we are THERE folks...
mcmd
Well-known member
It's obviously a profitability issue, not a sales issue. I wonder if there's the possibility of implementing an ESOP, with the employees buying the firm back from ShoreView? I would think that would be agreeable to most ML fans/owners.
is that an oxymoron I just heard ???
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