40yearfan
Member
I've never had a problem with Harman Audio. I've purchase many of their products over the years and the very, very few times I've needed service, they responded quickly and fairly.
ML Production moving
- Thread starter Keith
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I've never had a problem with Harman Audio. I've purchase many of their products over the years and the very, very few times I've needed service, they responded quickly and fairly.
intemperate - 3 dictionary results
in⋅tem⋅per⋅ate /ɪnˈtɛmpərɪt, -prɪt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [in-tem-per-it, -prit] Show IPA
–adjective = given to or characterized by excessive or immoderate indulgence in alcoholic beverages.
Man, if we can't drink while on the MLOC site, well it just wouldn't be the same.
Jimna
Well-known member
i second that and raise my glass to the notion :food12:intemperate - 3 dictionary results
in⋅tem⋅per⋅ate /ɪnˈtɛmpərɪt, -prɪt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [in-tem-per-it, -prit] Show IPA
–adjective = given to or characterized by excessive or immoderate indulgence in alcoholic beverages.
Man, if we can't drink while on the MLOC site, well it just wouldn't be the same.
sleepysurf
Well-known member
OK, here's an interesting rumor to pontificate on!
In the Feb 15th HomeTheaterReview.com piece on Dan D'Agostino vs. Krell (http://hometheaterreview.com/what-would-dan-dagostino-do/) the author throws out this interesting tidbit...
Not sure what to make of it, as I figure Gayle Sanders is kickin' his feet up livin' La Vida Loca, high-fiving himself that he got out of the audio biz before the market collapsed. Anybody really think he might have some new business venture up his sleeve, perhaps even related to some potentially cheap real estate in Lawrence, KS??
In the Feb 15th HomeTheaterReview.com piece on Dan D'Agostino vs. Krell (http://hometheaterreview.com/what-would-dan-dagostino-do/) the author throws out this interesting tidbit...
China....China....did someone mention China ??? ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq8wbXAR4ZQ
be carefull when you brush your teeth !
robertawillisjr
Well-known member
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intemperate - 3 dictionary results
in⋅tem⋅per⋅ate /ɪnˈtɛmpərɪt, -prɪt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [in-tem-per-it, -prit] Show IPA
–adjective = given to or characterized by excessive or immoderate indulgence in alcoholic beverages.
Man, if we can't drink while on the MLOC site, well it just wouldn't be the same.
:ROFL: No it wouldn't :ROFL:
Scumurculum
Well-known member
I deleted it
Great idea, Fish! Why don't we just delete all the threads that we don't like. Then this forum would be a much more tidy and cozy place. Boring as hell, but much more tidy and cozy.
Jungle Jack
Well-known member
Hello,
I agree with Rich. To delete this Thread would be wrong. This really is up there with the sale of ML as one of the biggest events in the Company's history.
Cheers,
ML
I agree with Rich. To delete this Thread would be wrong. This really is up there with the sale of ML as one of the biggest events in the Company's history.
Cheers,
ML
Pcar928fan
Well-known member
Or should you say SADDEST?!
Jungle Jack
Well-known member
Hello,
I definitely agree about it being a sad event. I have just read to many Brochures with ML hyping the fact the Speakers are Handcrafted in Kansas to not lament the change. It really was part of the aura if you will.
Cheers,
ML
I definitely agree about it being a sad event. I have just read to many Brochures with ML hyping the fact the Speakers are Handcrafted in Kansas to not lament the change. It really was part of the aura if you will.
Cheers,
ML
How many people can honestly say that they bought their Logans because they were "hand crafted in the heartland", and not because they sounded good? Or looked cool? Or some other non-heartland related factor?
Based on my conversations with many dealers, well-heeled friends and others, I think that basically three types of people buy Logans (both low and high end). First, dedicated audiophiles who know WTF they are doing. This is a substantial minority. Second, rich people who want a great AV system, visit a dealer, listen to 2-3 speakers and get wowed by the sound and often also the looks. This is the majority. Third, folks who outsource their HT to a dealer and he makes all the decisions on their behalf and decides they fit the Logan profile (versus Wilson or Revel or Thiel etc.). Based on all my conversations with delaers, friends etc, that's what my gut tells me.
I personally think that it was a highly misguided and silly marketing campaign that hopefully will die a natural death now. It should be replaced with a campaign that tells potential customers that Logans are the only speakers that can bring the Symphony, the Concert, the movie theatre or the Jazz bar to their homes, whenever they want. Are they the only ones? No. But thats what marketing is about.
Global QC and R&D is harder to execute, than when everything is in the same location. But it is not impossible. Hundreds of companies from GE health systems to Samsung to Sony to Apple have proven that. For every low QC poorly made global product, there is another great one. .... Well ok, there is one great one for every ten but it ain't zero I hope ML can be one of them
Note that Im not commenting on the location where it is made...Just that when R&D, management and manufacturing get split globally (even to Canada), complexity goes up as cost comes down (sometimes, not always). And you can absolutely retain the same QC and manage the complexity but you have to pay attention, replace informal QC/control conversations with process, retain and move the right employees.
I continue to hope with all fingers crossed that Shoreview is a long-term thinker, not short-term profit making PE firm and it wont gut this company. I also believe that the probability that the original owners would have bankrupted ML and it would have been on the block during the downturn ain't zero.
Based on my conversations with many dealers, well-heeled friends and others, I think that basically three types of people buy Logans (both low and high end). First, dedicated audiophiles who know WTF they are doing. This is a substantial minority. Second, rich people who want a great AV system, visit a dealer, listen to 2-3 speakers and get wowed by the sound and often also the looks. This is the majority. Third, folks who outsource their HT to a dealer and he makes all the decisions on their behalf and decides they fit the Logan profile (versus Wilson or Revel or Thiel etc.). Based on all my conversations with delaers, friends etc, that's what my gut tells me.
I personally think that it was a highly misguided and silly marketing campaign that hopefully will die a natural death now. It should be replaced with a campaign that tells potential customers that Logans are the only speakers that can bring the Symphony, the Concert, the movie theatre or the Jazz bar to their homes, whenever they want. Are they the only ones? No. But thats what marketing is about.
Global QC and R&D is harder to execute, than when everything is in the same location. But it is not impossible. Hundreds of companies from GE health systems to Samsung to Sony to Apple have proven that. For every low QC poorly made global product, there is another great one. .... Well ok, there is one great one for every ten but it ain't zero
I hope ML can be one of themNote that Im not commenting on the location where it is made...Just that when R&D, management and manufacturing get split globally (even to Canada), complexity goes up as cost comes down (sometimes, not always). And you can absolutely retain the same QC and manage the complexity but you have to pay attention, replace informal QC/control conversations with process, retain and move the right employees.
I continue to hope with all fingers crossed that Shoreview is a long-term thinker, not short-term profit making PE firm and it wont gut this company. I also believe that the probability that the original owners would have bankrupted ML and it would have been on the block during the downturn ain't zero.
Jungle Jack
Well-known member
Hello,
I have owned ML's for around 13 years. I really do not know which category you wish to ascribe to me, but I am a little bummed ML's are no longer built in Kansas. Heck, members of this Website went on trips to the Factory to watch the Speakers being manufactured.
I certainly purchased based on sound, but I did appreciate that spending tens of thousands of Dollars over the years went to American Workers at a time when so many things have been outsourced. However you want to slice it, our manufacturing base on a whole in this Country has been decimated.
I completely understand a Company is in business to make as much profit as possible. Still, the idea of Martin Logan's no longer being built in Kansas does not sit well with me.
Cheers,
ML
I have owned ML's for around 13 years. I really do not know which category you wish to ascribe to me, but I am a little bummed ML's are no longer built in Kansas. Heck, members of this Website went on trips to the Factory to watch the Speakers being manufactured.
I certainly purchased based on sound, but I did appreciate that spending tens of thousands of Dollars over the years went to American Workers at a time when so many things have been outsourced. However you want to slice it, our manufacturing base on a whole in this Country has been decimated.
I completely understand a Company is in business to make as much profit as possible. Still, the idea of Martin Logan's no longer being built in Kansas does not sit well with me.
Cheers,
ML
The article on page 87 of the latest TonePub online magazine about the MartinLogan Custom Shop captures the spirit and intent of "Handcrafted in the Heartland". (Check it out, it's free...http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10548 )
It is this kind of pride in their work and top notch customer service that I feel we're likely to lose. When I bought my first pair, I wasn't concerned or knowledgeable about where and how they were built but I did know they were US made. But later after becoming keenly aware of how they were made and their reputation for stellar customer service had a lot to do with my subsequent purchases of ML speakers later on. I've had the personal factory tour along with others on this forum and can attest that it was run like a family business with the people taking personal pride in their work. I've since owned 6 or 7 different types of ML speakers.
It is this kind of pride in their work and top notch customer service that I feel we're likely to lose. When I bought my first pair, I wasn't concerned or knowledgeable about where and how they were built but I did know they were US made. But later after becoming keenly aware of how they were made and their reputation for stellar customer service had a lot to do with my subsequent purchases of ML speakers later on. I've had the personal factory tour along with others on this forum and can attest that it was run like a family business with the people taking personal pride in their work. I've since owned 6 or 7 different types of ML speakers.
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I suspect that in the big picture of their customer base the audiophile has become just a niche market to them and therefore much less relevant in their overall business plans and I think that's sad and unfortunate. I hope they prove me wrong, I really do.
Didnt mean to imply that there are only three categories, of course. Thats the challenge with over simplification
Always interesting to see how people react, what emotional factors motivate them. Clearly, manufactured in america appeals to many people here, even if it is not the dominant factor. I am personally a global citizen. I am happy that jobs are being created in Canada and China equally as much as in the US, provided people are treated as fairly as possible and are retrained (or retrain themselves) to achieve even more. One can even hope that the laid off employees at ML, Kansas band together and start ML2, if they are that good. Or use their skills in panels to design other audio equipment...
My point just is that...
...when production goes global, whether that is from US or UK or even China, it is probable that quality will suffer (short-term) but not a foregone conclusion. And it often gets fixed after teething problems. It often actually gets substantially better than before. Production error records of hundreds of tech companies show that
But the emotional hurt of jilted customers rarely gets fixed.
Always interesting to see how people react, what emotional factors motivate them. Clearly, manufactured in america appeals to many people here, even if it is not the dominant factor. I am personally a global citizen. I am happy that jobs are being created in Canada and China equally as much as in the US, provided people are treated as fairly as possible and are retrained (or retrain themselves) to achieve even more. One can even hope that the laid off employees at ML, Kansas band together and start ML2, if they are that good. Or use their skills in panels to design other audio equipment...
My point just is that...
...when production goes global, whether that is from US or UK or even China, it is probable that quality will suffer (short-term) but not a foregone conclusion. And it often gets fixed after teething problems. It often actually gets substantially better than before. Production error records of hundreds of tech companies show that
But the emotional hurt of jilted customers rarely gets fixed.
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