ML Acquired by ShoreView Industries??

[Reverb2009]

I believe JJQIV is recommending you to an actual Magnolia Hifi, not a Best Buy Magnolia, there is a difference. Magnolia store’s are Full Line authored dealers, the Best Buy Magnolias are “Design Series Dealers” meaning they can sell select martin Logan products. If I walked into a Best Buy Magnolia and wanted to purchase a pair of summits they would not be able to order or sell them to me because there contract does not allow it.

 

[Jeff Zaret]

Yes I am a baby boomer. Probably an early one at that too
I grew up with B&W TV and tube electronics.
Jeff

 

[Steve Daigneault]

i've said this over at audiogon, and i'll say it here. 9 years ago, i went out to a high end shop in kensington, MD. i had heard a pair of logans there with a friend, and decided then and there that one day i'd own a pair. 3 years later, i went back to the same store, and bought a pair of aerius i. they were snooty and condescending the whole time, not helpful, and could barely be bothered with me. i paid full price. when i asked for an appropriate integrated amp to go with my aerius i, they sold me (and i bought) an NAD 340C, full price. so, basically, for full retail, i got, attitude, bad service, and bad advice.

last weekend, i went to tweeter, got a chance to listen to the vantages without any attitude with some krell equipment, liked them, they offered me a 10% discount, and were nothing but friendly the entire time. they were downright excited that i was actually interested, and even more excited that i bought a pair.

and you know what, the budding audiophiles that don't know about martin logan or krell will get a chance to see it, listen, fall in love, and save up their pennies for electrostats. which is a good thing for martin logan. it means they have a shot at staying around, and making some money, and hopefully developing better speakers.

IMHO, the more you can show how great stereo can sound, how there is a difference in quality gear, to a larger audience, the better. high end audio has gotten so snooty and exclusive, that many companies can't stay in business. it's too elite for it's own good.

 

[Jeff Zaret]

Steve,
I am glad you had a positive experiance at Tweeter and I hope this a trend of more things to come.
Enjoy thos espeakers

Jeff

 

[jjqiv]

Where you just wrote,"you can get a demo of the Summits at magnolia" thats what I was also afraid of with ML's venture with the mass market stores.I thought that they were only supposed to have the entry level of ML,and as you just mentioned the must have the whole line if they have the Summits.Thats what I call "ml selling out".The store magnolia probably said to ml that they should forget about their earlier agreement of selling only the entry stuff cause we're doing so good why can't we get the whole line.And ML dropped their values and said,We'll do.I tell you this is not gonna be a good ending for die hard ML people like everyone hear....The ML name will just not be the same.

Sorry to burst your bubble. They have been carrying the full ML line for years. Magnolia's is probably the closest thing most people will come to venturing into to a high-end shop. At least before they purchase something like a pair of ML's and want to improve on their sound. Personally, I could careless if my speakers do not carry the snob appeal of only being sold in a boutique. B.T.W., the more successful ML is, the more they can spend on R&D, the more they can lower their prices by efficiency of scale, etc. Then again, maybe you just like paying a premium for a product based on a label rather than performance?

 

[MarkNewbie]

Yes I am a baby boomer. Probably an early one at that too
I grew up with B&W TV and tube electronics.
Jeff

Well, here goes nothing...

I remember my dad sending me to the drug store with a bag of tubes to test in their tube tester. Anything that was not optimal was replaced. The old B&W TV would even take a few moments before the picture tube warmed up and got bright enough to watch. "I" was mom and dads remote and there were only 3 channels to watch. I had my first 22 rifle on my 8th birthday and dad would take me out to the dump with a bag of old tubes and some corn meal and we would spend the day shooting tubes and the rats that came out to feed on the corn meal. Who these days would dream of giving an eight year old a rifle? My how times have changed. Cars with no backseats being driven by hormonial teenagers. Who would of thunk? A women showing her midsection would have made Playboy back then! Yes, flame away this old fart!

 

[Robin]

The wonderful 'Tubes' of yesterday...

Well, here goes nothing...

I remember my dad sending me to the drug store with a bag of tubes to test in their tube tester. Anything that was not optimal was replaced. The old B&W TV would even take a few moments before the picture tube warmed up and got bright enough to watch. "I" was mom and dads remote and there were only 3 channels to watch. I had my first 22 rifle on my 8th birthday and dad would take me out to the dump with a bag of old tubes and some corn meal and we would spend the day shooting tubes and the rats that came out to feed on the corn meal. Who these days would dream of giving an eight year old a rifle? My how times have changed. Cars with no backseats being driven by hormonial teenagers. Who would of thunk? A women showing her midsection would have made Playboy back then! Yes, flame away this old fart!

Mark,

You don't sound old to me... I remember B&W tubed TV's too...
Ahhh the sixties, 'then the cars were fast and the women were straight.'

I wonder if Martin and Logan were starting to dream of electrostatic speakers back then...

Cheers

-Robin

 

[Jeff Zaret]

Mark,
Sounds like me except the 22 but everything is too familiar.

Jeff

 

[DTB300]

I remember my dad sending me to the drug store with a bag of tubes to test in their tube tester.

I remember tube testers in Drug Stores....My grandfather also had one.

Dan

 

[soloracer951]

You could argue the same thing about Mercedes. They have the AMG edition with is the culmination of millions of dollars of research -(think Statement e2), and then they have the two-door hatchback-(Montage). Each series still ultimately has to pass some tests inorder for it to get the Star on the hood.

Except that Mercedes now is developing a horrible reputation for cars with all kinds of reliability problems. The old Mercedes used to run forever and were the teutonic tank. So while their marketing has improved and the product line has expanded to include a range of cars from entry level to full blown exotic they have lost their status as building the highest quality cars out there. Now they are no better, and even a bit worse, than any of the other car manufacturers out there. In a recent newspaper article Mercedes had to address this reliability problem because it was costing them a fortune in warranty returns. How much do you want to bet that if these problems were not costing the company a ton of money that nothing would have been done about it? It appears to me that the pride of having your name on the door used to mean something whereas today it's all about turning a buck. I hope the same isn't true with ML.

 

[babydoc]

Jeff, enjoyed your perspective on both the "business" end of the "business" and the realities of trying to run a niche enterprise, ie, high end and relatively expensive audio equipment. I am less concerned about where ML is sold than it continues to be sold since I think their speakers are among the best that I have ever heard. I have built and bought equipment for over 45 years and have seen many worthy companies go south because they could not get sufficient sales of their products. You just have to think of KLH, H.H. Scott, Bozak, JansZen, among others. The venture capitalization of ML might have been a strategy that would have saved some these businesses had it been done.
I am getting a pair of Summits which I heard at my wonderful dealer's sound room in South Carolina (Read Brothers, Charleston). This is an unprepossessing environment in which very accommodating owners allow you to listen indefinitely with your own sources to the speakers you are considering. The room is also set up properly for auditioning. I have heard other MLs in Tweeters and HIFI buys. In some cases, set up was proper and some it was not. I would advise people who are considering dropping several big ones to be willing to search out stores that will allow them auditioning under adequate conditions or even home demo trials (which Read Brothers also does) if possible. The latter is actually the better of the two unless one plans on moving into the store's sound room.

 

[cyclone]

My closest dealer is three hours away and only carries half the line I think having the exposure of being in Best Buy stores will be a plus the big question is will they continue to stock parts for the old logans and keep the the people like Jim Powers on staff to continue their great customer service.

 

[Jeff Zaret]

babydoc,
I am glad you understand what I meant. Yes I do remember KLH, Scott and others. The worse is when they are bought and reincarnated as something of a vague instance of their past, for example Fisher comes to mind.
The place where I purchased a lot of my stuff is over an hours drive but well worth it and a reputable dealer.
I think ML needs more exposure to the masses. At the very least, their lower price point products do so they can look for future customers.

cyclone,
To answer your question about spare parts I will copy part of an email I got from Jim Power on Monday so you can see another comment from the "Mother Ship"

"Hi Jeff,

Sorry for the delay. It is the busy season and of course, here in the chilly mid-west it is mandatory that everyone catch a cold.........................................As for the new ownership of ML, I'm not worried about it at all. Part of the deal was that they would let us keep doing what we do best. Gayle gets to retire and still come play in the lab if we need him. I see no negative impact whatsoever.

Hope you have a good Holiday season.

jp"

So I think we be ok.

Jeff

 

[twich54]

Jeff, I agree but, the majority of acqusitions start by keeping the "status quo" and since I just acquired my new ML's I hope things continue in a positive direction. Time will tell !!

 

[ctbarker32]

Shoreview like a mini Berkshire Hathaway

I've read all the comments on the recent Shoreview sale and will offer some brief thoughts.

As a current owner of Aerius i's and hopefully soon to be owner of the new Summits, I am definnitely watching the Shoreview purchase with interest.

I will remain positive until something is presented that causes me to think otherwise. In reading the brief information posted about Shoreview, it strikes me that their firm is modeled somewhat after what Warren Buffett does with Berkshire Hathaway. If you read the financial press (e.g. WSJ) you will know that Buffett is very hands off in his management of the companies he owns. In a very recent expose in the WSJ, a recent deal was described in which Buffett tells the execs at the purchased company not to expect to hear from him more than once a year.

If Shoreview handles ML in a similar manner, then I believe there is little to worry about?

-CB

 

[aliveatfive]

Stereophile's opinion

See today's "Stereophile.com" website for their opinion of the take-over. The mag does not seem to be concerned about negative consequences and seems to regard this as a plus.

 

[Kruppy]

Resurecting an old one.....

Anybody see this months Stereophile?

In the industry update section, the lead section is on ShoreView Industries acquistion of MartinLogan...the same stuff we already know.

The really interesting part is the blurb about "a $28 million credit facility to support the recapitalization of the Paradigm Group (sponsored by ShoreView Industries)" that occured last summer.

ML wasn't the first audio investment...

 

[Robin]

ShoreView Recent Acquistions...

Anybody see this months Stereophile?

In the industry update section, the lead section is on ShoreView Industries acquistion of MartinLogan...the same stuff we already know.

The really interesting part is the blurb about "a $28 million credit facility to support the recapitalization of the Paradigm Group (sponsored by ShoreView Industries)" that occured last summer.

ML wasn't the first audio investment...

Kruppy,

Yes, I had read that Shoreview had acquired Paradigm Group then Martin Logan, some months back, and was planning to pump more money into each company. I am very glad that are actually now doing it. It is interesting to know ShoreView owns both my ML speaker company as well as Paradigm my Anthem Statement P5 amplifier company. I think they are trying to improve / revitilize / recapitalize both electonic audio companies. IMHO I think it's a very good investment for us as well as ShoreView... I am just hoping that the Anthem Statement D2 or D3 has more of the bells and whistles, Joe and I crave / want in a processor i. e., DTS True, DTS-HD in 7.1, HDMI connections etc., as a result of this recent recapitalization of Paradigm.

 

[Kruppy]

I guess I missed the Paradigm investment until yesterday. Sorry if this is a re-run for eveyone.

 

[Robin]

Will Paradigm and ML remain seporate?

I guess I missed the Paradigm investment until yesterday. Sorry if this is a re-run for eveyone.

Kruppy,

I am wondering if we will start to see a blending of these two ShoreView companies techonolgies. Are we going to see Summits and Vantages with Anthem electronics - amplifiers for their powered subwoofers? Electrostatic Paradigm speakers? ShoreView's new audio empire combining the best under the ShoreView audio banner? ShoreView is paying the bills now. Only time will tell I guess...