ML Acquired by ShoreView Industries??

[jjqiv]

I just joined the site yesterday.I learned a couple of things.(1)Martin Logan's can now be purchased at Best buy and Tweeter(2)Martin Logan was sold(3)My speakers....Montage,Fresco and Vignette's were not made here in the USA,but were made in China(4)after hearing all of the talk of "you can buy logans at the mainstream stores",I had to see this for myself.So I went to Tweeter in Lawrenceville,NJ and I'll be damn...they do sell logans here.They even had the whole line,even the new Vantage.I used to praise this company for their hi-tech thinking and ability to develope new product quickly,the hot looking product and even the thought that you can call the company and ask them anything about their product they were always there for you.I don't think I feel that way now.But what is bothering me the most is that they sold out to the "mass market".I feel this will dilute the product and the name.The tweeter company were demoing the Vantage's with.....a DENON receiver!You gotta be kidding me.I also seen cheap monster cable hooked up to them.I'm so bothred by all of this I didn't even like the looks of the Vantages or even the sound.I wanted to make another purchase of Martin Logans by the end of spring,now I don't think I want to invest in this company as I feel they will no longer be elite....I'm so furious...but it aint a damn thing I can do about it.For those of you who would like to now,my system is; Martin Logans-Scenarios,Montages,Frescos,Vignettes and the Grotto.My electronics are-Classe Audio CA150 for the l/r.Classe Audio CAV75 for the center and rears and mid surrounds.My processor is a Rotel 1068 and the dvd player is a Pioneer Elite DV45A.All of the cable is by Tara Labs(and not the entry level stuff).I bought all of my equipment new and from a "HIGH END" dealer,not a mass market seller,as I don't believe in them and today showed me why.

Is your concern really ML's ability to offer elite products or the snob appeal of only being sold in audiophile boutiques? Everything else in your system is sold in chain stores. Has Sonus Faber sold out because there products are sold at the mass merchandisers? Has McIntosh sold out? etc.

The reality is audio boutiques are becoming extinct. The chain store are also being hurt by the bigger mass retailer such as CostCo. Locally, the Good Guys just went bankrupt.

 

[ml360]

Is your concern really ML's ability to offer elite products or the snob appeal of only being sold in audiophile boutiques? Everything else in your system is sold in chain stores. Has Sonus Faber sold out because there products are sold at the mass merchandisers? Has McIntosh sold out? etc.

The reality is audio boutiques are becoming extinct. The chain store are also being hurt by the bigger mass retailer such as CostCo. Locally, the Good Guys just went bankrupt.

Hi end should be just that"hi end".It should be exclusive and demoed at a hi-end dealer that cares about your needs not a salesmans inability to have knowledge of the product and not to own anything like it himself.I really feel that those manufactures that sell along side the sunday sale ads guy will take a big hit in quality annd name sooner or later.I'll bet you will never see Wilson's in a store like this no matter how bad the hi-end atmosphere gets.

 

[C.A.P]

Hi end should be just that"hi end".It should be exclusive and demoed at a hi-end dealer that cares about your needs not a salesmans inability to have knowledge of the product and not to own anything like it himself.I really feel that those manufactures that sell along side the sunday sale ads guy will take a big hit in quality annd name sooner or later.I'll bet you will never see Wilson's in a store like this no matter how bad the hi-end atmosphere gets.

I agree high end is just that high end not Pioneer or Sanyo or running a pair of ML with a Dennon reciever , I can feel my ears frying now (ouch )

 

[dyazdani]

I think the sale of ML could be a good thing. It should allow them to do some things they might not have on their own. It appears to be a mutual thing, not an investment company simply buying out a failing business to cut costs along with quality and mass marketing to get sales back up.

I don't care so much where they are sold, but one thing does bother me. Best Buy and other similar stores do not employ people that are qualified to sell that type of equipment. They don't know enough to treat a customer properly. Also, they don't have the associated products to support that line of speaker.

 

[Reverb2009]

Hi end should be just that"hi end".It should be exclusive and demoed at a hi-end dealer that cares about your needs not a salesmans inability to have knowledge of the product and not to own anything like it himself.I really feel that those manufactures that sell along side the sunday sale ads guy will take a big hit in quality annd name sooner or later.I'll bet you will never see Wilson's in a store like this no matter how bad the hi-end atmosphere gets.

Any more Hi-End is defined by a price tag.

Yes Martin Logan’s can be found at BestBuys Magnolia HiFi, but only the clarity’s and under. BestBuy magnolias are not authorized to sell the bigger electrostats or descent sub.

 

[ml360]

Any more Hi-End is defined by a price tag.

Yes Martin Logan’s can be found at BestBuys Magnolia HiFi, but only the clarity’s and under. BestBuy magnolias are not authorized to sell the bigger electrostats or descent sub.

Well how come Tweeter can,and is currently selling the complete line and using junk electronics to demo them and salesman that now didly about the product or the history of Martin Logan speakers or the current speakers predicesser.

 

[Reverb2009]

Well how come Tweeter can,and is currently selling the complete line and using junk electronics to demo them and salesman that now didly about the product or the history of Martin Logan speakers or the current speakers predicesser.

Because They dont care. Money talks

 

[Jeff Zaret]

This is a tough subject but I too will offer my 2 cents here.

First of all ML did not sell out or get bought. Shoreview is an investment firm and if you read between the lines, what ML got was deeper pockets. Yes tenuous but I believe they will use this to further their technology as well as new products.

ML has to survive in a very volatile consumer market place. By selling lower priced models, not lower quality, regardless of where they are made, is a business decision that will infuse the company with more money and keep it progressing forward. This will also get the name Martin Logan out to more people. Yes companies like Tweeter, Circuit City and Best Buys are basically electronic whores that push product without any regard but the bottom line. Magnolia is making an effort to be a little bit more upscale while maintaining a profit margin. The Good Guys were swallowed up by CompUsa and their poor marketing strategies, which in the end made The Good Guys suffer and went down in flames.

Let’s take a step back here and look at a few things. When you give up your hard earned cash, you want to feel like you have not wasted your money and there is no way you are going to get any satisfaction from a “zit-faced” Gen-X’er whose whole life is about MP3’s, PlayStation, and getting laid on Friday night in the back seat of the car.
So take it for what it is worth. You do know what is good and what is not. If you really want to hear a good demo of the equipment why would you go to these superstores to do that? For price maybe yes but beyond that I know we are smarter than that. ML is in business to sell product and they need to enter in to the “commodity” market with a quality product. The strategy here, for example, is if they sell you some Clairtys’ today maybe in a couple years you may want to step up to a the Summits. Maybe you love the Grotto but now your rich uncle has died and left 250 large ones and you want to buy two Decents, etc. Get the picture?

It is not so much the fault of Tweeter or whoever that they are lacking the knowledge, it is more of the fact that they have mislead ML in believing they can market their product in good faith. But if not the large chains or superstores who will market their products to so many people. Stores like that will never be knowledgeable and the people who have that knowledge will move on. This is a numbers game.

For example, I too own a Rotel 1072 and a RB 1090. You mentioned you also own a Classe amp or pre but do you know they are all the same family of Equity International which not only sells those brands but B&W speakers? I do not think any of those companies have faltered or suffered and are not “bothered” by Equity International's involvement in the U.S.

Should you be ****ed, maybe, should you be concerned, I think we all are but it a waiting game. I think there is more positive than negative here. I say slow down enjoy your great equipment and wait. You are so far ahead of the game right now!

Just my rant and 2 cents – nothing more and nothing less

Jeff

 

[Dolfin]

I'm not selling my system, I can tell you that much. I love my ML's, they're the holy grail for me. I'm not totally psyched with the new styles, but who knows what the next gen ones will look like yet, they might even go retro again as the market evolves and changes. Will be interesting to see though.

 

[MarkNewbie]

This is a tough subject but I too will offer my 2 cents here.

First of all ML did not sell out or get bought. Shoreview is an investment firm and if you read between the lines, what ML got was deeper pockets. Yes tenuous but I believe they will use this to further their technology as well as new products.

ML has to survive in a very volatile consumer market place. By selling lower priced models, not lower quality, regardless of where they are made, is a business decision that will infuse the company with more money and keep it progressing forward. This will also get the name Martin Logan out to more people. Yes companies like Tweeter, Circuit City and Best Buys are basically electronic whores that push product without any regard but the bottom line. Magnolia is making an effort to be a little bit more upscale while maintaining a profit margin. The Good Guys were swallowed up by CompUsa and their poor marketing strategies, which in the end made The Good Guys suffer and went down in flames.

Let’s take a step back here and look at a few things. When you give up your hard earned cash, you want to feel like you have not wasted your money and there is no way you are going to get any satisfaction from a “zit-faced” Gen-X’er whose whole life is about MP3’s, PlayStation, and getting laid on Friday night in the back seat of the car.
So take it for what it is worth. You do know what is good and what is not. If you really want to hear a good demo of the equipment why would you go to these superstores to do that? For price maybe yes but beyond that I know we are smarter than that. ML is in business to sell product and they need to enter in to the “commodity” market with a quality product. The strategy here, for example, is if they sell you some Clairtys’ today maybe in a couple years you may want to step up to a the Summits. Maybe you love the Grotto but now your rich uncle has died and left 250 large ones and you want to buy two Decents, etc. Get the picture?

It is not so much the fault of Tweeter or whoever that they are lacking the knowledge, it is more of the fact that they have mislead ML in believing they can market their product in good faith. But if not the large chains or superstores who will market their products to so many people. Stores like that will never be knowledgeable and the people who have that knowledge will move on. This is a numbers game.

For example, I too own a Rotel 1072 and a RB 1090. You mentioned you also own a Classe amp or pre but do you know they are all the same family of Equity International which not only sells those brands but B&W speakers? I do not think any of those companies have faltered or suffered and are not “bothered” by Equity International's involvement in the U.S.

Should you be ****ed, maybe, should you be concerned, I think we all are but it a waiting game. I think there is more positive than negative here. I say slow down enjoy your great equipment and wait. You are so far ahead of the game right now!

Just my rant and 2 cents – nothing more and nothing less

Jeff

Nice post Jeff. There are certainly some very valid points that you made. I would like to clear up on thing that you said that might just be incorrect. I don't think that the Gen-Xer is only looking at Friday night for the back seat of his car. There are seven(7) nights in a week. I hope that you don't take this wrong but you shouldn't be so narrow minded. Remember, we were all that age once and I hope that memory still makes you smile. I think I might have to trade in my Camry for something bigger... Say, a Lincoln Townecar?

 

[C.A.P]

I'm not selling my system, I can tell you that much. I love my ML's, they're the holy grail for me. I'm not totally psyched with the new styles, but who knows what the next gen ones will look like yet, they might even go retro again as the market evolves and changes. Will be interesting to see though.

I agree , I am not selling mine ever (QUESTS), they are brand new (panels ) and styles, they are old school design, and still out perform about any in the curent line , (if properly set up) it is like Harley Davidson being bought by AMF they sucked , but the older designs kept thier value with the purests

old school forever ,

 

[MarkNewbie]

I agree , I am not selling mine ever (QUESTS), they are brand new (panels ) and styles, they are old school design, and still out perform about any in the curent line , (if properly set up) it is like Harley Davidson being bought by AMF they sucked , but the older designs kept thier value with the purests

old school forever ,

Interesting analogy as I know HD very well. I studied their use of JIT and the impact it had on their quality in college. This was of course after the AMF days. During the late 60s and early 70's HD had over 80% market share of the "Big Bike" market and by the late 70s, it dwindled to less than 20%. At that time, over 90% of new bikes were back in for warranty repairs within the first 60 days of ownership. They credited JIT for their turn around in quality during the late 70s and early 80s and their marketshare increase as well. I now own my 5th HD and can tell you that quality is once again taking a dive. Sorry for getting off topic but you hit on one of my favorite things, next to music. By the way, maybe ML will start making speakers for my bike? Polk Audio now does and I have aluded to the ML/Polk scenarios being similiar. Maybe I really have something to look forward to!

 

[Jeff Zaret]

Mark,
You are correct and I was on a rank. Seven (7) may be more like it and yes a Lincoln Town Car is more comfotable in the back but then there are those big SUV's. Of course us old guys, Old schoool guys, can afford a hotel room or have a home to have those "fun" times and get to listen to ML's too.

Jeff

 

[jjqiv]

Hi end should be just that"hi end".It should be exclusive and demoed at a hi-end dealer that cares about your needs not a salesmans inability to have knowledge of the product and not to own anything like it himself.I really feel that those manufactures that sell along side the sunday sale ads guy will take a big hit in quality annd name sooner or later.I'll bet you will never see Wilson's in a store like this no matter how bad the hi-end atmosphere gets.

I don't know about Tweeter's, but you can get a demo of Summit's with decent equipment at a Magnolias. You can definitely tell the Summit have potential from the Magnolia's demo. They even offered to set them up with different equipment or your own if you bring it in. Of course, you can also get a Summit demo at a high-end store a few miles away.

The knowledge of the sales people at some high-end stores is just as bad as at Magnolias, only the guys at the high-end store can carry quite an attitude. "What you are not going to drop 100k on a complete HT with butt kickers, lighting, seating, and a mini fridge?" Also, their bad advice is often significantly more expensive. B.T.W., I have met some pretty knowledgeable individuals at Magnolias. Also, Magnolia carries turntables, some of the other supposed high-end stores do not. What does that tell you?

B.T.W., My favorite high-end store does not consider Wilson high-end, just high-priced. When I was in his room at the stereophile show, we were joking about a the lemmings flocking into the Wilson rooms. I'll say one thing about their rooms, they were loud.

 

[Reverb2009]

Mark,
You are correct and I was on a rank. Seven (7) may be more like it and yes a Lincoln Town Car is more comfotable in the back but then there are those big SUV's. Of course us old guys, Old schoool guys, can afford a hotel room or have a home to have those "fun" times and get to listen to ML's too.

Jeff

Now I know you guys aren’t talking about me? I may be an X’er but I am not zit faced, and yes there are 7 days in a week and 5, maybe 6 I have to work so in may hectic life I look at it in hours not days, like hours I have left till I have to punch the clock again.

Lincoln Town Car? That’s so uncool, you better have the girl first before she sees what you’re driving, me I just got an ’05 Dodge Magnum R/T. You want to talk about back seat? I can fold it down and get two girl friends, a pair of Logan’s, and a dead mod boss back there. Why don’t we go a generation under me and talk about generation Y, the kids and their Imports, small cars, small motors with a turbo and no back seat. I have a couple that parks in front of my house a few nights a week and play suck face, do you think they clime into the back seat and Get-R-Done? NO, because that little Honda POS doesn’t have one, maybe next time I see the little Gen Y's I will tell him to go get his grandfathers Lincoln.

 

[Jeff Zaret]

No offense givien. Just venting a bit too much

 

[Robin]

Baby Boomers Rule...

Now I know you guys aren’t talking about me? I may be an X’er but I am not zit faced, and yes there are 7 days in a week and 5, maybe 6 I have to work so in may hectic life I look at it in hours not days, like hours I have left till I have to punch the clock again.

Lincoln Town Car? That’s so uncool, you better have the girl first before she sees what you’re driving, me I just got an ’05 Dodge Magnum R/T. You want to talk about back seat? I can fold it down and get two girl friends, a pair of Logan’s, and a dead mod boss back there. Why don’t we go a generation under me and talk about generation Y, the kids and their Imports, small cars, small motors with a turbo and no back seat. I have a couple that parks in front of my house a few nights a week and play suck face, do you think they clime into the back seat and Get-R-Done? NO, because that little Honda POS doesn’t have one, maybe next time I see the little Gen Y's I will tell him to go get his grandfathers Lincoln.

Joe,

IMHO, 'Baby Boomers Rule' reasons why:

1). Boomers invented ML's - Martin and Logan are 'Baby Boomers'...
2). Boomers invented, "Why Don't We Do It In The Road", making out on a Firday / Saturday night. 'Make Love not War'.
3). Boomers drove 'Hot Rods', muscle cars like; Mustang's, Camero's, Nova's, GTO's, etc...
4). Boomers are kind and gentle folks that attended, 'Woodstock'...
5). Boomers made some beautiful music, and we still do...

Jeff, I'd give up my hard earned cash to a 'Baby Boomer' any day, because they are so cool and rightous, man...

Cheers

-Robin

 

[Reverb2009]

It did not offend me, I was just having fun, I like your post very much Jeff, keep it up.

 

[Robin]

Me too... I liked it too...

It did not offend me, I was just having fun, I like your post very much Jeff, keep it up.

Jeff,

I liked it very much too...

Jeff, Aren't you a 'Baby Boomer' too?

Cheers

-Robin

 

[ml360]

I don't know about Tweeter's, but you can get a demo of Summit's with decent equipment at a Magnolias. You can definitely tell the Summit have potential from the Magnolia's demo. They even offered to set them up with different equipment or your own if you bring it in. Of course, you can also get a Summit demo at a high-end store a few miles away.

The knowledge of the sales people at some high-end stores is just as bad as at Magnolias, only the guys at the high-end store can carry quite an attitude. "What you are not going to drop 100k on a complete HT with butt kickers, lighting, seating, and a mini fridge?" Also, their bad advice is often significantly more expensive. B.T.W., I have met some pretty knowledgeable individuals at Magnolias. Also, Magnolia carries turntables, some of the other supposed high-end stores do not. What does that tell you?

B.T.W., My favorite high-end store does not consider Wilson high-end, just high-priced. When I was in his room at the stereophile show, we were joking about a the lemmings flocking into the Wilson rooms. I'll say one thing about their rooms, they were loud.

Where you just wrote,"you can get a demo of the Summits at magnolia" thats what I was also afraid of with ML's venture with the mass market stores.I thought that they were only supposed to have the entry level of ML,and as you just mentioned the must have the whole line if they have the Summits.Thats what I call "ml selling out".The store magnolia probably said to ml that they should forget about their earlier agreement of selling only the entry stuff cause we're doing so good why can't we get the whole line.And ML dropped their values and said,We'll do.I tell you this is not gonna be a good ending for die hard ML people like everyone hear....The ML name will just not be the same.