McCain and Obama

[twich54]

Classic Steve !! I love it, now lets get out and campaign !!!

 

[Rich]

While Obama is indeed preaching about sweeping reforms, improving everything from education to energy, I still see nothing more than another liberal candidate that wants more government and higher taxes.

He wants to cover all Americans with some sort of universal healthcare plan...well who pays for that?

Who pays for it now? Have you checked your insurance premiums lately? Mine are through the roof. And every year, it covers less and less. God forbid you should end up in the hospital for a few weeks. Paying for what your insurance doesn't cover will bankrupt you. Insurance premiums are rising, yet they are covering less and less. Costs of medical treatments are exploding, and to top it off, the insurance companies and HMO's are telling the doctors what they can and can't do for you! We have money managers making our health care decisions for us! Is this not absurd? Do you not see the need for some drastic reforms? I certainly do.

I am not sure what you are getting at with long spiel about 8 years ago vs today. Yeah, gas was cheaper 8 years ago, and it was way cheaper 20 years ago.

During the last three to four years, oil prices quadrupled. Supply remained relatively constant and demand only edged up a bit. But prices quadrupled. Why? A direct result of Bush foreign policy decisions. He has intentionally caused the price of oil in this country to skyrocket through his policy decisions, and now he tries to blame it on lack of drilling opportunities. Notice what I said above. Supply remained relatively constant and demand edged up only slightly, but prices quadrupled. This shoots a complete hole in Bush's argument that more drilling will solve our problems. He is trying to make us take our eye off the ball regarding the poor decisions he has made and what it is costing this country.

Bush lowered the tax rates for people like me who make a lot of income off of capital gains. But he caused everyone to pay three to four times more for a product they use everyday. And this sort of backdoor tax hits the poor and middle class the hardest. Meanwhile, Exxon and friends continue to make record profits every year. Coincidence? I think not.

By the way, I don't think we need to just end our dependance on foreign oil. I think we need to end our dependence on non-renewable fossil fuels in general (coal and petroleum). McCain has been in the Senate almost thirty years and every time he has had a chance to vote in a manner that would lead us toward this goal, he has voted the opposite way. He is getting lots of money from the oil companies and he will do nothing as president to decrease our dependence on oil. Just more of the same.

There is no question in my mind that the majority of Americans and the country's finances in general were much better off eight years ago than they are today. The purpose of my "spiel" was to point out a few of the factors that I believe show that. Can you point me to any factors that show we are better off than we were eight years ago? What we don't need is more of the same kinds of decisions that we have had for the last eight years, and I don't see that McCain will be any different than Bush.

Please, tell me Rich, what makes Obama so special?

Well, for starters, he is young, energetic, and incredibly intelligent. Guys, as a lawyer, I know that it takes a very smart and capable person to graduate magna cum laude from Harvard Law School and become Editor of the Harvard Law Review. The people that accomplish this are the types of people that end up on the Supreme Court. I contrast this to McCain, who graduated near the bottom of his class from the Naval Academy.

It takes intelligence to run a complex administration and inject some needed change into a bloated, run-down system of government. I believe Obama has some great ideas for doing just that. Now, whether or not he can accomplish them remains to be seen. But at least he has some new ideas -- vs. McCain who wishes to just continue the status quo.

But deep down, I just see Obama has another liberal candidate that wants to raise taxes and expand a government that is already too large, too slow, and full of self-serving politicians.

How is this different than Bush? Bush lowered taxes, but the deficit has ballooned out of control, so the interest payments are eating us alive and eventually taxes will have to be raised to pay off this debt. That is simple economics. Meanwhile, our Government has grown tremendously in size under Bush's watch. The concepts of the "tax and spend liberals" and the "small government conservatives" are just republican political rhetoric. Look behind the words at what they do, and you will see that it is just a bunch of talk with no relation to reality.

 

[Kenscollick]

Just one of the many things the media gets wrong

The difference this one is obvious and funny


http://www.tmz.com/2008/09/02/barack-makes-his-tory-with-his-two-dads/

 

[Beakman]

Please look at these sites, if not for anything but a view on political sincerity. Take the time to give your full consideration to the entire speech if available.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGONDUxUxc4

http://www.dailypaul.com/

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/mission/

 

[Rich]

Kenscollick, if you are getting your political information from TMZ.com, well . . . I guess that would explain a lot.

By the way, Ken, in your first post in this thread, you stated:

Here is an example of Obamas goals:http://www.aim.org/aim-column/senate-passes-obamas-aids-bill/

the short story is he wants an additional $50,000,000,000 to $845,000,000,000 to send to Africa to combat aids even with my public school math education I can figure that that is at least an ADDITIONAL $2400.00 for every man woman and American child.

but what you failed to state, which the article you linked to makes clear, is that McCain was an original co-sponsor of that bill along with Obama. While lambasting Obama, you also fail to mention that Mitch McConnel and many other republicans voted with the democrats on this one. Just a little biased in your reporting, perhaps?

 

[Diamonds]

I thought this was hilarious!

If you live in an Urban area and you get a girl pregnant you're a "baby daddy." If you're the same in Alaska you're a "teen father." (Actually, according to your own MySpace page you're an F'n redneck that don't want any kids, but that's too long a phrase for the evil liberal media to take out of context and flog morning noon and night).

Black teen pregnancies? A "crisis" in black America. White teen pregnancies? A "blessed event."

 

[Kenscollick]

Just in case you need another reason not to like Sarah

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?articleid=1116858&srvc=2008campaign&position=8

I hope this source meets with your approval

 

[Rich]

Yes, Ken, once again you are up on the important issues.

Here are just a few news stories out today that emphasize some of the points I made in my previous comments:

Study: Workers to pay more for health care

Stocks plunge after retail, unemployment data

US private sector cuts 33,000 jobs in August


Can there be any doubt that we need new leadership in the White House?


Oh, and here is one more which points out the lengths McCain/Palin and company are willing to go to in lying to the American public to try to drum up support for their ticket:

Attacks, praise stretch truth at GOP convention

 

[slowGEEZR]

Flip flop??

A little humour...

http://ccinsider.comedycentral.com/cc_insider/2008/09/jon-stewart-ann.html

 

[risabet]

I thought this was hilarious!

If you live in an Urban area and you get a girl pregnant you're a "baby daddy." If you're the same in Alaska you're a "teen father." (Actually, according to your own MySpace page you're an F'n redneck that don't want any kids, but that's too long a phrase for the evil liberal media to take out of context and flog morning noon and night).

Black teen pregnancies? A "crisis" in black America. White teen pregnancies? A "blessed event."

My wife and I just had this discussion in the car. The Republican's are stretching their own credibility with this as a "family values" "pro-life" issue. If Obama had an unwed, teenage daughter and she were pregnant the right-wing media would GO OFF on "who's the baby daddy" and the lack of values in the Obama household, instead of "it's lovely that she chose life." I hope no one is dumb enough to fall for this crass duplicity but many undoubtedly will.

PS: The "baby daddy" looked quite uncomfortable in his first and only suit

 

[Beakman]

My wife and I just had this discussion in the car. The Republican's are stretching their own credibility with this as a "family values" "pro-life" issue. If Obama had an unwed, teenage daughter and she were pregnant the right-wing media would GO OFF on "who's the baby daddy" and the lack of values in the Obama household, instead of "it's lovely that she chose life." I hope no one is dumb enough to fall for this crass duplicity but many undoubtedly will.

PS: The "baby daddy" looked quite uncomfortable in his first and only suit

I agree, he looked like he did not want to be there at all.
I feel bad for him and the girl. Not for the unintended pregnancy, but for the fact that their personal lives and freedoms have now become politicized. it is really "no choice" in every aspect of their life from now on and they absolutely don't deserve this. Their lives are now dictated by the requirements of Sarah Palin, John McCain, the repulican party, and even by extention all those of the opposition too.
One must conclude that it illustrates how craven the present machine of this campaign is, to eat their own children, and to do so publicly without hesitation.

 

[Rich]

One must conclude that it illustrates how craven the present machine of this campaign is, to eat their own children, and to do so publicly without hesitation.

If nothing else, it is certainly an eye-opener into the heart of Sarah Palin, who willingly puts her own career ambitions ahead of her children. Family values, indeed.

 

[Diamonds]

PS: The "baby daddy" looked quite uncomfortable in his first and only suit

He sure did especially when his MySpace page said:

F'n redneck that don't want any kids

I am pretty sure he may have been pressured to be there.

WE DO NOT NEED ANYMORE AVERAGE PEOPLE IN THE WHITEHOUSE. IT AIN'T WORKING!

 

[DrJRapp]

WE DO NOT NEED ANYMORE AVERAGE PEOPLE IN THE WHITEHOUSE. IT AIN'T WORKING!

Amen

So is that why your choice is Obama?

His job performance in any capacity, by anyone's standards, has been way below average. I'm sure if you didn't show up for work 40-50% of the time and spent your time doing things other than the projects you were hired to do you wouldn't have YOUR job (company) very long, would you? It appears that Obama feels that going to work in the Senate is a waste of time.

Understand, I'm not a JM fan either, I just think his record clearly eclipses Obama's ...and unfortunatly we don't have a better choice. And I can't imagine why??? can you..... lol

Would anyone in their right mind realy want to subject themselves and their family to the scutiny and ridicule of the public eye for such a thankless job?

 

[Kenscollick]

Final Thoughts

In my very first post I indicated that I was very disappointed in the candidates running for President, on the right we had a lifetime senator that I consider quite liberal. On the left we have a senator with 144 days of experience with mostly “present votes” that is essentially a “I don’t know”

There is a lot about John McCain to respect in regard to his war record and service to our country.

There is nothing about Barack Obama to like, his 20 year association with the Rev. Wright, His associations with William Ayres, and Tony Resco. Bring more questions than assurances.

McCain picking Sarah Palin as his VP gave me a second reason to vote for him, [the first was Obama]

Like it or not our world is governed by strength and the use of force especially in these current times. The radical Muslims are not people that we can negotiate with words and money, things that Democrats have used unsuccessfully in the past. Historically Democrats will cut military budgets to use for social programs and worldwide giveaways, we can not afford for this to happen, not now.

I don’t worry too much about how much a candidate knows about foreign policy or who is running what, they will surround themselves with the best experts on either side. The bottom line still remains with the decision of the president. This is where I want an experienced leader.

Obviously I will be voting for John McCain and Sara Palin they would not be my first pick but they are the best offerings for the job and I will support them when they are elected.

 

[nsgarch]

I'm going to vote but

this "government" hasn't been "of, by, and for the people" since the (illegal) income tax began, and since the (illegal and privately owned) Federal (sic) Reserve Bank was formed. Our government (and our fate) is and will be determined by the banks and the corporations unless and until 'we the people' take it back. Anyone got any ideas . . . . . . ?

The Titanic is going down and we're arguing over who gets to arrange the deck chairs

 

[theWB]

The Titanic is going down and we're arguing over who gets to arrange the deck chairs

I've refrained from this thread, but that's the funniest line I've heard in a long time. Classic :bowdown:

 

[twich54]

I agree Wayne, classic Neil !! damn, time to listen to Chapin's .."Dance Band on the Titanic"......"sing near thy God to thee, the iceberg's on the starboard bow, won't you dance with me " !!

Man I miss Harry, if he were still here I'd vote for him for President !!!

 

[IWalker]

He sure did especially when his MySpace page said:

F'n redneck that don't want any kids

I am pretty sure he may have been pressured to be there.

WE DO NOT NEED ANYMORE AVERAGE PEOPLE IN THE WHITEHOUSE. IT AIN'T WORKING!

Really? Sarah Palin's rise from a mother in the PTA to governor of the state...and taking on her own party and special interests/corruption plus McCain's well known story both set them far more apart from "average" in my opinion than Obama's Harvard Law Degree (my undergraduate alma mater - so maybe that makes it less impressive to me, I don't know), sub-par job performance, and rise to power driven by convicted mobsters (rezko) and domestic terrorists(ayers) in one of the most corrupt political systems in the country (chicago). Even the more defensible record of Biden (vs Obama) strikes me as rather average for a career politician...in everything except length of tenure..

Besides, if you think that George Bush is an "average person" along the lines of Sarah Palin, then you have no idea what you're talking about. The son of a president? Grandson of a senator? Maybe you mean someone who's not cosmopolitan? Maybe a smart and motivated "average person" who has won on their own merits is exactly what we need. It'd definitely be a far cry from George Bush's background. Kind of an irresponsible generalization either way. Besides, different is not always better...in fact it can be a lot worse. Change for the sake of change is asinine.

Honestly...the biggest thing that scares me about Obama is that we currently have a liberal congress...and the amount of damage they could do to the economy of the country without any check and balances could be catastrophic. Taxing companies more...really? That means companies will move MORE operations overseas...hire fewer domestic employees...and charge more for their goods and services. Hmm...gas prices too high? Lets tax the oil companies so they'll.....charge the consumer more? I think a basic introductory economics course should be required for presidential candidates. It's easy to tell people they can have their cake and eat it too...but much harder to make that happen when it violates basic economic principles.

 

[Rich]

my undergraduate alma mater - so maybe that makes it less impressive to me, I don't know

Did you graduate magna cum laude or higher? You don't find that the least bit impressive? Especially for a mixed race kid that didn't come from money? The first person of color to become Editor-in-chief of the Harvard Law Review. Not impressive? Then I guess you are not impressed by McCain's finishing almost dead last in his Naval Academy class. For a job like the Presidency, intelligence does matter. One look at the last eight years makes that abundantly clear.

Besides, if you think that George Bush is an "average person" along the lines of Sarah Palin, then you have no idea what you're talking about. The son of a president? Grandson of a senator?

Being related to high-ranking politicians, and having enough money and clout in the family to buy an election, does not in and of itself make you an above-average person. Judging by his intelligence, his performance in office, and his character, I would have to rate Bush as a below-average person.

Besides, different is not always better...in fact it can be a lot worse. Change for the sake of change is asinine.

I said it earlier and I will say it again. The very definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. If you are happy with the way this country has gone for the last eight years, then there is nothing Obama or I or anyone else can say to change your mind. You should just vote for McCain.

But the majority of this country doesn't feel that way, and they are definitely ready for a change in the way this country is run and the way Washington works. Obama appears to be the best chance we have of achieving some real change and I, for one, am willing to give him a chance to accomplish it.

Honestly...the biggest thing that scares me about Obama is that we currently have a liberal congress...and the amount of damage they could do to the economy of the country without any check and balances could be catastrophic.

This is a good point. Much of the damage that was done in the past eight years was because for almost seven of those years, we had a republican president and congress. Sometimes stalemate is good. But when you do need to inject some changes into the system, it is necessary to have a congress and president that can work together.

Lets tax the oil companies so they'll.....charge the consumer more?

This is a complete red herring. Why do conservatives always throw up this bogeyman to try to scare people, instead of looking at the actual facts? Tell me, what have the tax breaks and corporate incentives of the last eight years gotten us in the way of gas prices? Let me answer that for you: a quadruple rise in price! Oil companies are having record profits every quarter, while enjoying favorable corporate tax rates. Are we seeing that reflected in lower prices? NO! Does your logic hold water? NO!

The reason oil prices (and consequently, gas prices) are so high is solely because of Bush's disastrous foreign policy and because of his determination to devalue the dollar. These two things have caused oil prices to quadruple in the last four years while supply and demand have remained relatively steady. Look at the raw data on oil supply, demand and pricing, and read some articles from someone other than FOX News and learn about the real fundamentals affecting the oil markets.

Oil prices will drop like a rock when the democrats get into office, simply because they will engage in more positive, proactive diplomacy, end the war in the middle east and ease the needless tensions with Iran, Venezuela, and Russia, and work toward raising the value of the dollar. They will also threaten to use the Strategic Reserve to ease prices (something Bush has refused to do from day 1) and this will have a strong psychological effect on the oil speculators.

I think a basic introductory economics course should be required for presidential candidates. It's easy to tell people they can have their cake and eat it too...but much harder to make that happen when it violates basic economic principles.

Then how can you support John McCain? He certainly had nothing of the sort at the Naval Academy and he has shown through his statements that he has no friggin' clue about economic matters. He has made no proposals for how to deal with the huge deficit caused by the war and Bush's tax breaks. He just says things will magically get better by extending those tax breaks and staying in Iraq for the next hundred years.