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... and then there is the unchallenged assault on oil by speculators that has belted everybody with not an iota of productivity gain. The blinding failure of right wing economics and the sudden development of socialistic tendencies in the face of that failure is neatly encapsulated .... privatise the profits and socialise the debt.

Tax the crap out of them. My mortgage rate has continued to rise to pay for the speculative greed of the wealthy.

Kevin
 
Campaign Slogan

Now tha Barack has chosen Joe Biden as his VP I have a suggestion for their campaign slogan that sums up their positions and goals for change.

Barack Biden 08
We've Got What it Takes
To Take What you Got
 
Tax the crap out of them. My mortgage rate has continued to rise to pay for the speculative greed of the wealthy.
Kevin
Nice thought, but whether it's an oil company, a car manufacturer or whatever, they don't pay taxes. They transfer that demand by gov't to the consumer.
In the late 70s President Carter imposed a windfall profits tax on the oil companies here in the States. What did they do in response? Slashed domestic production and went overseas, and projected the extra costs to the consumer. As a result oil prices skyrocketed in the late 70s and early 80s. The Reagan Administration eliminated the tax, not because they favored oil companies, but simply because the windfall tax simply DID NOT WORK. And fuel prices came down during the rest of the 80s and the citizen on the street benefitted from that. A good example of ineffective government policy that thank God was fixed by another administration.
 
... and then there is the unchallenged assault on oil by speculators that has belted everybody with not an iota of productivity gain. The blinding failure of right wing economics and the sudden development of socialistic tendencies in the face of that failure is neatly encapsulated .... privatise the profits and socialise the debt.

Tax the crap out of them. My mortgage rate has continued to rise to pay for the speculative greed of the wealthy.

Kevin

Your mortgage rate is rising? Must have bought an ARM. Could have avoided that with a fixed rate mortgage. Besides, the mortgage rate is likely much LOWER than it would be if the economy was healthy. So this point is a complete red herring.

Oil speculators may overestimate the true effect of certain events on the price of oil...but then, considering that oil is a relatively inelastic good (ie, a change in price only affects demand a small amount) it isn't necessarily all that inaccurate. How do YOU suggest we set the price of oil, if not through free market? Maybe the government fixes the price like back in the 70s? As much as there are issues with the free market system...it's a far cry better than the nearest alternative...especially in a world economy where we don't get to hold all the cards.

Also...republican economics? Remember that there's a democratic congress...and that they are the only ones able to set budget and economic policy. The president can support ideas he likes...and avoid vetoing the bills...but once again, it's inaccurate to call the recent policies being enacted republican policies, when the policy making arm of the government is under democratic control. Try to place blame based on facts, not bias.

The failures that have occurred in markets are in some way contributed to government policies...but are the most part a result of private citizens and companies making poor decisions...for example...people buying houses they can't afford...and companies lending money to people who can't afford to repay it. Both companies and individuals are currently suffering the effects of those poor decisions. This has very little to do with government policy. If anything, the government is stepping in to help people recover from their own mistakes. It's far less sinister than you're making it out to be.
 
People's United shares could rise 20 percent

Take a look at this by Reuters:

http://personal.fidelity.com/research/stocks/content/marketsindex.shtml?refhp=c

Amazing how things work out when a company thinks about long-term health instead of short-term "pseudo" growth. The People's United Financial Inc. did not grant sub prime loans and it is now really paying off. It is sad how things only start to change when the pendulum swings to far one way or the other and the “bubble” starts to burst. Now you need a credit score of 750+ to get a loan.
 
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Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

I'm a registered independent. I've become fed up with two party system. It appears to me that only the faces change, not the policies. While serving for 20 years in the Navy, it was go along with the pro military power party or be passed by on promotions. So I learned just to keep my mouth shut and voted the way I wanted.

The founding fathers must be looking at us with complete disgust as to the way we have corrupted this country. Free everything for everybody, don't worry about how we are going to pay for it. Tax the rich, give it to the less fortunate. Was it Washington or Jefferson that said "Avoid foreign entanglements"? I guess we kinda blew that one.

There are a couple of obscure documents that most of the Congress and Executive branches should be required to read in Washington. They are the Constitution, Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights. If a majority of them read these three simple documents, I believe they would find out what issues and responsibilities they were elected for.

Gordon
 
Your mortgage rate is rising? Must have bought an ARM. Could have avoided that with a fixed rate mortgage. Besides, the mortgage rate is likely much LOWER than it would be if the economy was healthy. So this point is a complete red herring.

Oil speculators may overestimate the true effect of certain events on the price of oil...but then, considering that oil is a relatively inelastic good (ie, a change in price only affects demand a small amount) it isn't necessarily all that inaccurate. How do YOU suggest we set the price of oil, if not through free market? Maybe the government fixes the price like back in the 70s? As much as there are issues with the free market system...it's a far cry better than the nearest alternative...especially in a world economy where we don't get to hold all the cards.

Also...republican economics? Remember that there's a democratic congress...and that they are the only ones able to set budget and economic policy. The president can support ideas he likes...and avoid vetoing the bills...but once again, it's inaccurate to call the recent policies being enacted republican policies, when the policy making arm of the government is under democratic control. Try to place blame based on facts, not bias.

The failures that have occurred in markets are in some way contributed to government policies...but are the most part a result of private citizens and companies making poor decisions...for example...people buying houses they can't afford...and companies lending money to people who can't afford to repay it. Both companies and individuals are currently suffering the effects of those poor decisions. This has very little to do with government policy. If anything, the government is stepping in to help people recover from their own mistakes. It's far less sinister than you're making it out to be.

I am in Australia where my personal world view sheets a lot of the blame for the current credit crisis to the decisions of Alan Greenspan and the very loose regulatory environment, allied with the willingness of banks to lend far more than people can afford in order to make huge profits for shareholders. The whole house of cards has come tumbling down. All I see is the wealthy via dubious investment vehicles removing money from the less well off and then governments being forced to bail out the mess. I have still not seen the wholesale return of bonuses and profits made by the financial sector in the last decade returned to truely pay the bill. Thes were false profits not associated with increased productivity. The futures market is exactly that - a device to create future debt tht is paid for by somebody else.

Like I said - right wing economics. If you stepped outside the USA you would find that many are interested in US domestic policy because of the impact it has on a global economy. At the moment the by world standards, well run relatively low exposure Australian banks are raising interest rates to cover their increased credit costs. These increased credit costs are directly related to the subprime debacle which is directly related to easy credit from the US central bank, poor regulation and policy driven by short term profit .

So - it feels to me as though I am paying for an American banker's Ferrari.

The mantra of right wing financial policy - I will say it again - privatise the profit and socialise the debt.

Kevin
 
I am in Australia where my personal world view sheets a lot of the blame for the current credit crisis to the decisions of Alan Greenspan and the very loose regulatory environment, allied with the willingness of banks to lend far more than people can afford in order to make huge profits for shareholders. The whole house of cards has come tumbling down. All I see is the wealthy via dubious investment vehicles removing money from the less well off and then governments being forced to bail out the mess. I have still not seen the wholesale return of bonuses and profits made by the financial sector in the last decade returned to truely pay the bill. Thes were false profits not associated with increased productivity. The futures market is exactly that - a device to create future debt tht is paid for by somebody else.

Like I said - right wing economics. If you stepped outside the USA you would find that many are interested in US domestic policy because of the impact it has on a global economy. At the moment the by world standards, well run relatively low exposure Australian banks are raising interest rates to cover their increased credit costs. These increased credit costs are directly related to the subprime debacle which is directly related to easy credit from the US central bank, poor regulation and policy driven by short term profit .

So - it feels to me as though I am paying for an American banker's Ferrari.

The mantra of right wing financial policy - I will say it again - privatise the profit and socialise the debt.

Kevin


Very well said!!
 
Yup, unless you hold the shareholders accountable (instead of tax-payers), little or no lessen be learned at the top of these companies. If I could do a whole bunch of risky investing and know in the back of my mind that I would be bailed out, say by my rich uncle, why change?
 
I am in Australia where my personal world view sheets a lot of the blame for the current credit crisis to the decisions of Alan Greenspan and the very loose regulatory environment, allied with the willingness of banks to lend far more than people can afford in order to make huge profits for shareholders. The whole house of cards has come tumbling down. All I see is the wealthy via dubious investment vehicles removing money from the less well off and then governments being forced to bail out the mess. I have still not seen the wholesale return of bonuses and profits made by the financial sector in the last decade returned to truely pay the bill. Thes were false profits not associated with increased productivity. The futures market is exactly that - a device to create future debt tht is paid for by somebody else.

Like I said - right wing economics. If you stepped outside the USA you would find that many are interested in US domestic policy because of the impact it has on a global economy. At the moment the by world standards, well run relatively low exposure Australian banks are raising interest rates to cover their increased credit costs. These increased credit costs are directly related to the subprime debacle which is directly related to easy credit from the US central bank, poor regulation and policy driven by short term profit .

So - it feels to me as though I am paying for an American banker's Ferrari.

The mantra of right wing financial policy - I will say it again - privatise the profit and socialise the debt.

Kevin

Philosophically, you are probably right. But I think blaming [a lack of] regulation is the easy way out. Do we need some common sense rules to prevent people from owning a house they can't afford. Yes - absolutely. Why not just have an established debt/income ratio and be done with it. If you want to buy a $500,000 house, you better be making 250k/year (or whatever) to afford the payments.

Having said that, the REAL problem is the "buy it now, worry about paying for it later" mentality that plagues most Americans. It's a total lack of understanding of basic personal finance, banking, and budgeting that is the real issue here. We finance everything - our homes, cars, college education, boats, trips, etc. No wonder the American consumers have a 2.5 trillion dollar debt. Most Americans spend the majority of their lives paying debts.

Maybe if they showed people what the TRUE cost of a college education is, people will think twice about going to a super expensive private school vs a community college for 2 years and then transfering to the nearby state school at a fraction of the price. Maybe if the consumer saw how much the new car's value drops the second you drive it off the lot, will they realize, then, that the 2004 Accord is a better buy than the brand new $35,000 SUV.

No one wants to work for anything any longer it seems. It's all linked to short term profit, or short term 'happiness.' Everyone wants instant gratification - at work, at home, you name it. It amazes me that young people, just out of school, think they can buy this big house, fill it up with stuff, buy a new car all when they are 22 or 23 years old. Nevermind that their parents probably had to work for 15 or 20 years before they had the nice house, with the nice kitchen utensils, big deck, huge grill, and so on.

Live within your means - it's that simple.

Erik
 
Dnc

CHANGE!!! Let's parade out Gore, Kennedy, Carter, and Kerry to speak at the convention. Where is this new direction of the party? Hillary gave an excellent speech, but it seemed to be 80% about herself and a little bit about supporting Obama. I think the Democrats would have had a lot better off with her then Obama.

Did you hear Bill Clinton’s quote before going to the convention that night?

“Suppose you're a voter, and you've got candidate X and candidate Y. Candidate X agrees with you on everything, but you don't think that candidate can deliver on anything at all. Candidate Y you agree with on about half the issues, but he can deliver. Which candidate are you going to vote for?"

Classic.
 
politics

I have a very close friend who has worked closely, although briefly, with Dems such as Al Franken. I can't stand it when people lump all their agression/passion into insulting a person, in this instance, candidates becuase of one reason, even if that reason is not relevant. Such as Franken being a writer, actor and entertainer.

There are lots of smart people here on this forum. I'm more liberal than conservative, but also realistic. Everyone can find something wrong with every candidate's policy and how it will pertain to one's life. I personally struggle voting completely one sided because of this.

Anyway, I read the first three pages of this thread and I plan on finishing the rest, but reading heated posts is both interesting and sad.

Can't we all just get along? But everyone is entitled to their opinion. I really feel strongly about that too.

ben
 
Can't we all just get along?

I am not sure what you read in the first three pages that would lead you to believe we aren't getting along.

anytime you discuss politics or religion you will get strong opinions on all sides.

Also not sure where Al Franken figures in the only name calling that I have seen was President Bush being referred to as King and Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity being refered to as "clowns"

Once you finish your reading please enter this discussion. and remember that 99% of democrats give the rest a bad name.
 
oh come on . . .

i probably shouldn't have posted without reading more. i would say that your last comment about dems and bad names makes the same point name-calling does. And I think everything goes both ways, don't you Ken?

i guess I'm mostly talking about politics everywhere. Probably not specifically all of you.

I can't stand it when people make comments which are clearly meant to insult. i guess a political debate isn't a place for sensitivity and sensibility.

every ad on tv makes me want to throw up. Every one. Politics, how our country is going to be run, shouldn't be a mud slinging s%&t-fest. But it always has been, and always will be. I'm just disgusted by the whole thing. And I'm also not trying to insult you Ken. I hope I'm coming across as a equal opportunity finger-pointer.

ben
 
Both Bill Clinton and Barack Obama made some great speeches this week. It'll be interesting to see how the Republicans respond. McCain has a tough road to hoe in the next 67 days -- he's not a particularly good or exciting candidate and the Dems would seem to have the high ground on most issues.

We shall see how this pans out in the next few weeks... It's sure to get wild !

~VDR
 
In the end

in the end both sides are just going to stick it too us !!!
 

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