Lifetime Service for MartinLogan Products

[Len44]

Loyal MartinLogan customers,

Recently we announced a decision to discontinue our service support for certain legacy MartinLogan products that are no longer in production.

Well…we messed up.

Today I’m pleased to announce, after much discussion, the following:

1) MartinLogan stands behind every speaker made and will offer lifetime service and support for every model.
2) We will still offer a Loyal Customer Discount Program option to upgrade to a current production ML model, should your legacy ML product need service.

We need to refocus some energy on providing the best possible customer service, and it starts here with our most loyal and long time customers.

Forgive us for our blunder and we hope you continue to enjoy your MartinLogan speakers for many years to come. Please contact us directly at 785-749-0133 with any service issues or for more information about our Loyal Customer Discount Program.

Warmest Regards,

Justin Bright
Marketing Director

Well, this latest information doesn't seem to square up too good with the above. Seems ML is no longer interested in retaining current customers. Assuming this stands, I too will be moving on to another, and hopefully better, company that actually cares about their customers and retaining the relationship, instead of the narrow (and shortsighted) view of a sale as a single transaction.

Sad, very sad...

 

[-justin-]

I've read your concerns and I'm not "ducking you," I've escalated this to the appropriate people here at MartinLogan and when I get a response I'll post.

Thanks,
-- The "MartinLogan mouthpiece"

 

[Len44]

Thanks for the update / interim response, Justin. I'm sure you can see how all this looks to what has heretofore been a pretty amazing and loyal customer base -- a group that most rational folks would think Martin-Logan would be wise to retain.

Hope logic prevails...

 

[Hocky]

Justin: do your magic and convince your people to give a couple of more months grace period before hiking the prices, I bet you will see a bunch of orders and appease some people who feel wronged by providing notice of the hike. Even though I don't need them now, I know that i would order a pair for safe keeping, making my summits worth using somewhere else in the house in a couple of years rather than just throwing them in the dumpster and looking for something else.

 

[zaphod]

It's not just the prices it's the models.

Justin very very clearly states that EVERY MODEL will be supported. I have no quibble with the prices - i know that it costs to maintain that knowledge and skill set and there you have it.

but every model is NOT supported. They have been discontinuing models from the definition of EVERY slowly and quietly so that owners of the Logos (for example) are unexpectedly out of luck when they try to get replacement parts/panels.

The price point set by the company is their decision to make - the definition of "every" is not theirs to make.

 

[Len44]

I had understood that ML was going post here (or, better, notify registered owners directly) when and if support was planned to be discontinued for a particular model. It seems a terribly odd way of doing business, to deliberately alienate an established client base, especially in light of the nearly fanatical nature of many ML owners toward these speakers.

It is certainly NOT unreasonable to notify folks when a pending increase is planned, particularly since these price increases are pretty robust. Folks ought to (and should expect to) be treated with respect. You know, the old "Do unto others" mantra...

 

[zaphod]

Yeah, I was under that impression as well, and haven't heard any "we're going to be discontinuing this, or we're going to have a tripling of prices.

But ML has been annoyingly quiet until one of the forum members here discovers what has happened. Announcements should be telling what's going to happen, not making nice after the fact.

Justin - communication is key. Let me put it this way.

If ML makes a decision such as discontinuing a product or support or tripling the price of same, then customers can be divided into two camps

1. those who will get upset about it
2. those who will not get upset about it

The people who get upset, well it's their reaction and ML can't do a thing about that. No matter what ML does, they're going to get upset about these things happening. Their reaction is outside of anything ML does (except of course rescinding the decision, but even then the bad taste may remain.)

Of the people who would not get upset, a fair amount of them can and will get upset by how ML announces or does not announce these things. That is, their getting upset is entirely within ML's control by ML's decision to not communicate as was promised.

If you tell a reasonable person what is going to happen in a reasonable way that allows them to prepare for the inevitable then the reasonable person will remain so.

If you instead break that promise of communication and rather leave people high and dry (discontinued support) or feeling like they've been screwed over (prices tripling) then congratulations - your direct actions and miscommunication have converted people who would have been understanding into people who are upset.

ML's communication is entirely within ML's control - and a good number of the people in these threads who state they are no longer going to buy ML would not be taking that position had there been better communication on the part of ML.

However, the communication we see - or at least a large part of it - seems to be reactionary

I've read your concerns and I'm not "ducking you," I've escalated this to the appropriate people here at Martin Logan and when I get a response I'll post.

All that you've done with that post Justin is tell people that ML is still monitoring the thread - but choosing not to say anything - or as Len put it - duck the questions.

In any relationship - customer/dealer, husband/wife, worker/boss, company/client the communication used and not used unequivocally controls that relationship.

People here want honest and forthcoming communication. Not spin-doctoring.

 

[zaphod]

ah the irony.

 

[-justin-]

The service manager is on vacation this week and I haven't received a response. But when Scotty Wenzel returns and I have information (instead of just making something up, which I don't think you want) I'll post it, like I said in my last post.

Thanks!
~Justin

 

[zaphod]

Thank you. And I mean that - no sarcasm or ire - i honestly thank you for posting this.

But it's still a reactionary post. And if you hadn't posted it, the impression would have remained that you are avoiding the thread a sentiment which has been pointed out more than once by more than one person.

I'll say it again - communication is as much about what you don't say as it is about what you do say.

It's like this - I sent off a phono amp for repair. It took almost a year to get fixed - true story. But the guy doing the repairs let me know that there was a delay due to finding the exact components and then a further delay by determining a matched trio after burn in. He let me know what was holding up the process instead of keeping mum for a year and then returning the item when the work was done. We all understand delays, but we have to know about them to understand them.

So in the same vein when you say "I'll post something when I get a response" and then don't post anything it really starts to look like there won't be one. Perfectly understandable that someone is away, but you could have said that in the first place instead of responding to my goad. In my opinion a lot of the communication from ML is exactly that - reaction to a post.

It shouldn't be a reaction - it should be up front and forthcoming.

If you're thinking "man will nothing make this guy happy?" then you're just not getting it. Read my June 16th post again, it's not about raising prices. It's not about discontinuing support that was stated to never be discontinued - it's about communication, the lack of communication and how this really really affects the relationship between ML and this customer base.

Finally, an open invite to anyone reading this post (including you Justin ) - if I am off base here and don't know what I'm talking about, then let me know. Maybe everything is fine and I'm the only one concerned about communication being a reaction instead of announcement.

 

[-justin-]

You make good points, and if I had pricing information upfront I would have posted it, but to be completely honest, that's not even something that's in my view here at work. I've requested to "know what's going on" but it doesn't always work that way, unfortunately.

As a side note, I don't check this website every day, I'm usually tinkering with photos, updating specs on the website, working on ads, brochures, facebook, videos, etc...so if there's really something that a concern please, just email me directly so I can get to the bottom of it, because instead it looks as if I've been sitting on some secret information for a long time without responding. In this case, one of our sales guys (Peter) called me when he saw discussion on pricing and said, "Uh, have you seen that thread?" Then I feel like an idiot, but I jumped right on, responded and fired off the email to the people I think can accurately respond. A call or direct email would have at least brought it to my attention sooner.

Thanks,
~Justin

 

[-justin-]

As promised I'm posting the response from our Director of Inside Sales & Product Management.
----------------------

Dear Valued MartinLogan owners,

I would like to take a moment to add to the discussion concerning the recent price increases of some of our service parts and components. For close to 30 years MartinLogan has striven to provide needed service components for many of the products we’ve manufactured since our inception as a company in 1983. Our primary goal in providing these service parts and support to our community of friends and owners has and will continue to focus on allowing you access to parts and accessories to keep your speakers sounding and performing as new.

The difficultly for MartinLogan, as with most manufacturers, is balancing our desire to provide our owners with the required parts at an honest, fair price and the need to adjust our pricing to fairly reflect on-going material and labor cost increases. In addition, as requests for parts for our older MartinLogan products decline naturally, this results in higher increases in material costs. This is due to smaller minimum order purchases from our suppliers which cost significantly more than when these same components were purchased at much higher quantity levels as associated with active production. As a rule of thumb, supplier costs always go up when MOQ (Minimum Order Quantity) goes down.

Up until this year we have been able to sell these service parts to our end-users for the same wholesale pricing that we charge our authorized dealers with service departments in addition to national and international service centers. Our recent service pricing increase is not pleasant for us, and is not an easy decision. MartinLogan does not expect our service component sales to be a profit source, but on the other hand our service department cannot lose money on these sales either. If we were to continue our older pricing structure, we would be forced to evaluate the support of our older legacy products that are currently being supported.

In closing, thanks for your understanding and continued support!

Scotty Wenzel
Director of Inside Sales and Product Management

 

[amey01]

Thanks for the response as usual. I would like to make a couple of points:

Before I start, I think we need to understand there are two discrete things we are discussing here. Spare parts and replacement panels. I have no issue with replacement parts. Everything I say henceforth is directed at panels only - they are a consumable.

Firstly.....

MOQ (Minimum Order Quantity) goes down

The old panels use the same sheet metal and mylar, glue and coatings. How is MOQ different? This I know because ML themselves have regularly gloated how the old/replacement panels benefit from new techniques and materials in panel development.

Also on this point, current production model panels have also experienced the exact same increase. So really - this whole paragraph is just a nice sounding lie, isn't it? Moving along........

Secondly......prices have in some cases trebled - is MOQ really capable of that much of a price difference?

Lastly.......in the "make money, lose money" equation, it would also be prudent to factor in customer satisfaction and chance of repeat business, surely? I for one will not consider ML for my next speaker purchase, and the time is getting pretty darn nigh I might add. The peace of mind is essential to me - especially for something I consider more-or-less a "consumable" like the panels.

Why do audiophiles pay $USD30,000 for a pair of CLX when they can get music from a pair of $100 Sony or Pioneer boxes? Why? - because they are meticulous and they are perfectionists. Any issue or degradation of panels over time they want to rectify immediately. That is, if the speakers are going to have a used market value any greater than Sony boxes......

Prices of the panels needs to be considered by any financially responsible owner as part of the running costs / TCO of the speaker system. Prices of spare parts here is the primary factor in determining this.

With the current pricing model, a brand-new ML is effectively a disposable speaker - with a finite 10 year (or so) lifetime. Really - they are, aren't they? You know it. I know it.

That - is important. For all other parts I can understand inflated prices. The chances of requiring them are slim and one-off. But panels, which every single speaker you manufacture will no doubt consume at least one (possibly many more) replacement(s) in their lifetime? This is nothing short of a toner-cartridge pricing model, and simply not acceptable for a high-end speaker system.

 

[Dan Osib]

As promised I'm posting the response from our Director of Inside Sales & Product Management.
----------------------

Dear Valued MartinLogan owners,

I would like to take a moment to add to the discussion concerning the recent price increases of some of our service parts and components. For close to 30 years MartinLogan has striven to provide needed service components for many of the products we’ve manufactured since our inception as a company in 1983. Our primary goal in providing these service parts and support to our community of friends and owners has and will continue to focus on allowing you access to parts and accessories to keep your speakers sounding and performing as new.

The difficultly for MartinLogan, as with most manufacturers, is balancing our desire to provide our owners with the required parts at an honest, fair price and the need to adjust our pricing to fairly reflect on-going material and labor cost increases. In addition, as requests for parts for our older MartinLogan products decline naturally, this results in higher increases in material costs. This is due to smaller minimum order purchases from our suppliers which cost significantly more than when these same components were purchased at much higher quantity levels as associated with active production. As a rule of thumb, supplier costs always go up when MOQ (Minimum Order Quantity) goes down.

Up until this year we have been able to sell these service parts to our end-users for the same wholesale pricing that we charge our authorized dealers with service departments in addition to national and international service centers. Our recent service pricing increase is not pleasant for us, and is not an easy decision. MartinLogan does not expect our service component sales to be a profit source, but on the other hand our service department cannot lose money on these sales either. If we were to continue our older pricing structure, we would be forced to evaluate the support of our older legacy products that are currently being supported.

In closing, thanks for your understanding and continued support!

Scotty Wenzel
Director of Inside Sales and Product Management

Thanks for responding. However a Panel price increase from $900 to $2750 means bye bye Martin Logan from myself the moment my panels die on my CLS IIz's (purchased back in 2005). Too rich for my blood I'm afraid. Thanks for all the years of backup though.

 

[FoxMulder]

Thanks for responding. However a Panel price increase from $900 to $2750 means bye bye Martin Logan from myself the moment my panels die on my CLS IIz's (purchased back in 2005). Too rich for my blood I'm afraid. Thanks for all the years of backup though.

I completely agree. When my panels on my CLSIIA's die and need replacement, I'm sad to say so does my ownership of any Martin Logan product.

 

[C.A.P]

Like I said earlier. If they supported the full monty, X overs and all the $2750 to the peanuts would not be so adamantly painful. By any means am I agreeing with the rational as I stated its forced extinction in a hope for new product sales. However when you invest $3k into a speaker to replace the voicing part you damn better be able to address the electronics, as I do not know about many of you, but in today's economy a $3k paper weight is REAL kick to the peanuts and that's a gamble this boy wont take..

Sorry ML or (PARADIGM) You dropped the ball and will no longer get my business. By the way my new Fritz Carbon 7 boxes are on the way !

http://www.martinloganowners.com/fo...rence-between-CORPORATE-and-Private-Companies!

 

[Dan Osib]

After some heavy research I reckon I'm gonna go with a nice set of used Quad 2905's when my CLS's expire. I estimate that I've got approximately 8 years of life left in my CLS IIz's. I'll mod the f#ck out of the Quad's when I get them.

 

[Len44]

The old panels use the same sheet metal and mylar, glue and coatings. How is MOQ different?

I am really, really, trying to understand all this...and I'm afraid I do.

But, just to be fair, I would really like for Mr. Wenzel to weigh in on the above comment.

Because, it is just a bit difficult to swallow this no-notice, three-fold increase...

To say I (we) are greatly disheartened with the "new" Martin-Logan is an understatement. Martin-Logan was a GREAT company, with marvelous, superior speakers and extraordinary customer service. It is telling that Jim and now because Melodie are no longer valued team members, and the natural concern is that this is because they were providing exceptional customer service which was a very significant in the building of such a loyal base.

Absent some prompt turnaround by ML, I fear I must join with a number of others who are unable to see how it is possible to consider purchasing Martin-Logan speakers going forward.

JUST -- REALLY -- SAD.

 

[Horchem1972]

Was not the move to Paradigm in Canada supposed to reduce operaing cost. I am to assume that the new company I will call Paralogan thinks that only ignorant consumers purchase their products.We were lied to when you said ALL legacy products will always be serviced. As stated before, the new products essentially use the same materials as the legacy. The only way to justify the price increase is pure greed and the hope we will purchase newer models. I personally have owned 5 differant ML products but will not support the new manufacturer I will now call Paralogan. It is death of an era of a company that once cared about loyalty and pride in their products.Now known as Paralogan is about pure greed and that is it.

 

[Bernard]

I wonder if the panels are cheaper in Canada, now that they're made here, or if Plurison, ML's gouging distributor here has found some way to still justify higher prices than in the U.S.