Lifetime Service for MartinLogan Products

[churchill]

Wow, that is quite the increase; last I heard from Melodie it was $1600 a pair. Might have to locate another good used pair for both the electronics and the panels as this would be cheaper then buying the new panels only.

 

[FoxMulder]

I had requested a quote for new panels for a pair of used SL3's I was looking at back in late March. Melodie quoted me a price of $650 a pair, plus around $40 for shipping. I just checked again the other day and they are now $1300 a pair plus shipping.

Seems Martin Logan has agreed to continue to make panels for the legacy product, but at what price? I think they are now forcing us to look at other options, but can still say they are supporting their past product? Just my thoughts...

 

[amey01]

Seems Martin Logan has agreed to continue to make panels for the legacy product, but at what price? I think they are now forcing us to look at other options, but can still say they are supporting their past product? Just my thoughts...

If this is the case, it is terribly unethical and a really low move. Keep us up to date with developments. We all know how much a piece of plastic sandwiched between two sheets of metal should cost.........

 

[jmschnur]

Doesn't the labor and intellectual property count for something?


J

 

[C.A.P]

Pretty much the same for me.

Not much new to post about that hasn't been discussed before.

Time for some new blood I reckon.

Do you still have your CLS set up?

Yes I do but they are showing signs of weakness. Sometimes buzzing. Heat gun wont fix. They are OK but not world class

Doesn't the labor and intellectual property count for something?


J

Yes, Labor does account for something. Lets see. A skilled individual it takes a 4 hr span to assemble. The panels are lets say $200 a metal panel finished. The Mylar is $50 a speaker. Spars are $50 a speaker and 3m VHB tape $25 a speaker... Boxes are $100

OK 4 hrs at $40.00 hr =$160 + $800 for 4 metal perforated panels + $50(X2)for each speaker for the Mylar(Which is bought in bulk) $50(x2) for spars $25 (x2) for 3m VHB tape +$100 for boxes..
............................=$1310 just for labor and parts and these are INFLATED LABOR numbers and generous parts cost .. So ML is making $$1440 on intellectual property. Intellect that has been used and reused and been paid out as ITS OLD TECHNOLOGY . Research has been done and recouped. If they are trying to recoup on a 30 year old speaker they should not be in business..

They sold them for $900 when the old guard was in control. They may have made little $$$ but it was service and sales at the same time. They counted on repeat business and loyal fallowing. Then they raised them to $1500 which was 3/4 more but not a deal breaker. Yes its $600 more but you still got a great speaker back to life. Now $2750 for Metal and saran wrap and 3m tape .. Sorry its forced extinction ! What was transpiring in these dire economic times was many were willing to spend $1500 to make a CLS new again that can crush any ML speaker out pending the CLX but give it a hell of a run and that was taking new business away! Plain and simple, CORPORATE GREED ! Old Guard was MOM and pop service and sales .. Not that way now folks !

 

[RichTeer]

I hear what people are saying and am sympathetic to their plight. But consider this: when someone orders a replacement panel for a long-discontinued speaker, presumably regular production must be suspended to accommodate the manufacture of the replacement one? So we're not just talking about the time it takes to make the panels, but whatever set up time and break down time it takes, plus lost production time.

I don't doubt that perhaps a little gouging is going on, but

1. ML don't HAVE to support these older products and we should be grateful that they do (albeit at a price); and

2. Buying a newer replacement speaker is presumably an option (albeit with a different sound).

Another way of looking at it is this: it's the price we pay for choosing to stick with the speakers we love... *Shrug*

 

[Gordon Gray]

Rich,

You certainly make some valid points but it doesn't explain, at least to me, what Fox said in Post No. 102. That being a doubling of price, for replacement SL3 panels, in 2 months or so.

Gordon

 

[churchill]

ML should've let us know about the price increase prior to it happening and maybe they would've garnered a few extra panel sales!

 

[Hocky]

Rich,

You certainly make some valid points but it doesn't explain, at least to me, what Fox said in Post No. 102. That being a doubling of price, for replacement SL3 panels, in 2 months or so.

Gordon

Someone just did cost analysis, maybe? I think it is fair for a product like this to have 75%+ mark up. I don't know what actual panel production costs are, but when you break routine to make something different, your actual costs go up substantially for both the pair that you made and the rest of your production line. I can't be mad at them. The CLS are basically the equivalent of what the CLX is today, so that panel price doesn't seem to be unreasonable to me when consider what the equivalent speaker replacement cost would be. $2500 is a lot lighter than $25000.

 

[C.A.P]

All Production of NEW units are made in Kanada.. They only make the older stuff in Lawrence one order at a time. There is no production line its a one set up per order. So that isn't a issue of breaking down a production line.. Yes , like I said if they had total support of the complete unit as in the crossovers and all electronics then the $2750 kick to the PEANUTS would hurt but you could shake it off in time knowing that if you buy a new pair and 3 months down the road you have crossover issues then you are not sitting on a $2750 window decoration..

Sorry All valid points but still ITS CORPORATE GREED ! Forced Extinction...

 

[Dan Osib]

Just priced new Panels for the CLS series speakers.. This is direct from Martin Logan Today ! ARE you ready for a shock.. You better sit down.. $2750 a set !:wtf:

Now I am not saying if someone said MR C.A.P would you pay $2750 for a BRAND new pair of CLS ! HELL YES ! But its METAL and Mylar .. If they re released the CLS with today's technology and new x overs they could charge $10K and be worth it but with technology that has been repeated and paid for it self for the last 30 years how do they see charging $2750 for replacement panels.. Especially when they dont support the electronics any more. You could technically end up with a $2750 hit if your x Overs decide to belly up... Sorry I know they have to make $ but NO WAY I AM PAYING $2750 for 4 ,2x4 pieces of perforated metal and coated saran wrap. This is a example of forced discontinuation and its not how the old guard was at ML.

Martin Logan YOU have just lost another to corporate GREED !:devil:

My Fritz Carbon 7 sound just fine, and the $2750 I saved I will go on vacation for a week and still come home to good music... and be able to buy a beer ! Come on ML ..:duh:

GOOD GOD!!!!!!!!!!! Raising the price for a set of replacement CLS IIz panels from $900 to $2750 is absolutely downright disgusting and scandalous by any standards! You could buy a whole new pair of quality speakers for that price. Martin Logan - you have now lost another customer here in me, as soon as my existing CLS IIz panels die on me I will be finished with Martin Logan altogether and replacing the speakers with the latest Quad Electrostatic models.

Thanks for nothing Martin Logan!

 

[amey01]

Doesn't the labor and intellectual property count for something?


J

Not really. IP and R&D should already have been recouped over the model's span of currency.

How much in materials is there? $50 or so.......at the most? That is, if ML have a decent procurement team and are sourcing the materials at a decent price for the number they buy.

Labour resources are already there for the current model line. Redirecting them to a re-run of the same thing (albeit slightly different shape) once a year to top up spares stock (on a per-unit basis) wouldn't be more than say $100.

Then there's storage of the spares. This is probably the most significant cost, but let's hope that ML aren't using prime city real estate for this purpose.

A fair price for a pair of CLS panels (in my uneducated opinion) would be in the order of $500 or so. Let's say $1000 for a healthy profit.

Now, we're talking almost three times that?

I actually think someone's got the story wrong - it can't be right. It is making our speakers a constructive write-off.

 

[Gordon Gray]

It would seem reasonable to me to make a run of CLS, SL3, Prodigy, Aerius panels and so on, recognize the cost savings in making say 10 or 20 pairs at a time, and then store them recognizing that they will eventually be sold. At time of sale, pass the savings onto the customer.

Not a radical concept and one that ML could clearly do, without suffering any major financial loss, and still make a reasonable profit.

But hell, what do I know.

GG

 

[amey01]

It would seem reasonable to me to make a run of CLS, SL3, Prodigy, Aerius panels and so on, recognize the cost savings in making say 10 or 20 pairs at a time, and then store them recognizing that they will eventually be sold. At time of sale, pass the savings onto the customer.

Not a radical concept and one that ML could clearly do, without suffering any major financial loss, and still make a reasonable profit.

But hell, what do I know.

GG

Of course!

Common sense (on ML's part) would also dictate they use (and re-use) the same panels in as many speaker types as possible. Why (for instance) is the Vista/Vantage and Summit panel of different dimensions?

You can't tell me that a Summit panel (larger) costs a significant amount more to manufacture than a Vista/Vantage panel? Why not use the same in each and reap the benefits of economies-of-scale?

Same goes for older designs..........why didn't the new designs adopt the same dimensions and the Ascent/Odyssey for example? That way, there would be no difference in tooling/manufacturing /etc.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Adam,

We all know what word and mouth (from the current users) can do for the success or failure of a product line.

When you compare the minimal amount of sales / profit realized by jacking up the panel replacement prices to the amount of "ill will" created and the subsequent loss of support / referrals for the company (as witnessed by the above posts), this policy isn't shooting yourself in the foot but in the head.

Gordon

 

[Hocky]

You can't tell me that a Summit panel (larger) costs a significant amount more to manufacture than a Vista/Vantage panel? Why not use the same in each and reap the benefits of economies-of-scale?

Same goes for older designs..........why didn't the new designs adopt the same dimensions and the Ascent/Odyssey for example? That way, there would be no difference in tooling/manufacturing /etc.

Because then you make all of the speakers effectively the same from 200hz+ - doesn't even make sense to have multiple models at that point.

 

[Hocky]

I shot Melodie an email just for giggles to see where panels are at for Summits since I expect to need some before too long and you'll be happy to know that it isn't the oldest legacy panels that have shot way up in price. The Summit panels are currently $2400. Oh, and Melodie doesn't work there any more. Too bad.

 

[jmschnur]

What a loss for us and ML. I found her truly top notch .


Joel

 

[Gordon Gray]

Woofta.

Justin, ????????????????????????

To my friend Rich, what can I say?

I think you win the JC "karmak" award.

GG

 

[Horchem1972]

Seems like the ML mouthpiece Justin is ducking our questions

Seems funny he only wants to claim the accolades but ducks the hard questions. Martin Logan dangled the proverbial carrot with claims of loyalty, but in the end proceeded to stab loyal customers in the back. I do wish that Sanders Sound Systems would begin making aftermarket panels for our Logans. Hopefully someone does aftermarket rebuilds like Dave Sauter does for the Carver speakers. I doubt it but can only hope.