Lifetime Service for MartinLogan Products

[amey01]

Just thought of another neg I am afraid. You don't ever really need new panels. Tis only the mylar and coating that fail. Therefore, you should really be able to send your existing ones back for a re-skin - lest you have damaged them by some other means.

Soz - but this is surely true.

Oh, and if they're charging nearly $3,000 for punched metal and mylar, what might they charge for mylar only? And to open the glued seal, re-glue and send back to you? My bet would be $2,500 or so. Not much difference.

To put it another way - what are they gaining by doing this? They're saving the cost of two punched bits of sheet-metal (which amounts to about $20), and adding a much larger cost of labour, cleaning, pulling apart, re-assembling, shipping.

We all know what this stuff is worth.......nothing. Cost of materials in a typical panel would probably be less than $100. If the truth be known - probably less than $50. Of course we're reasonable and understand the cost of labour, R&D, inventory, and so forth.

Of course we're going to be paying well in excess of cost of materials. But by the same token, ML needs to understand they produce a very expensive product that utilises a consumable / proprietary part. Availablity of this said consumable part is integral to the ongoing service continuity of the product Martin Logan produce.

People do not spend the kind of money required for Martin Logans, when they are in fact receiving a disposable product.

And if service life of the aforesaid expensive product is going to be precluded or compromised because of greedy pricing models, then even Blind Freddy can see that (after a small chain reaction where used market values fall first) - new sales will also fall away.

 

[spectral]

I have been away from this site for two weeks, and just had a chance to read the new developments. I am a man of few words, so when I say this response is total BS, perhaps I am thinking it is sheer insult to our intelligence. A lot of us have seen the panel construction video, the materials involved, machining and labor. As Rich and others pointed out, this price increase is simply trying to achieve end-of-life for older products in another way. But carry on, my MLs are already the last ones.

Peter

As promised I'm posting the response from our Director of Inside Sales & Product Management.
----------------------

Dear Valued MartinLogan owners,

I would like to take a moment to add to the discussion concerning the recent price increases of some of our service parts and components. For close to 30 years MartinLogan has striven to provide needed service components for many of the products we’ve manufactured since our inception as a company in 1983. Our primary goal in providing these service parts and support to our community of friends and owners has and will continue to focus on allowing you access to parts and accessories to keep your speakers sounding and performing as new.

The difficultly for MartinLogan, as with most manufacturers, is balancing our desire to provide our owners with the required parts at an honest, fair price and the need to adjust our pricing to fairly reflect on-going material and labor cost increases. In addition, as requests for parts for our older MartinLogan products decline naturally, this results in higher increases in material costs. This is due to smaller minimum order purchases from our suppliers which cost significantly more than when these same components were purchased at much higher quantity levels as associated with active production. As a rule of thumb, supplier costs always go up when MOQ (Minimum Order Quantity) goes down.

Up until this year we have been able to sell these service parts to our end-users for the same wholesale pricing that we charge our authorized dealers with service departments in addition to national and international service centers. Our recent service pricing increase is not pleasant for us, and is not an easy decision. MartinLogan does not expect our service component sales to be a profit source, but on the other hand our service department cannot lose money on these sales either. If we were to continue our older pricing structure, we would be forced to evaluate the support of our older legacy products that are currently being supported.

In closing, thanks for your understanding and continued support!

Scotty Wenzel
Director of Inside Sales and Product Management

 

[FoxMulder]

my MLs are already the last ones.

After all of this crappola, mine too.

 

[amey01]

After all of this crappola, mine too.

I just hope I can find something else and sell mine before their value is $0.

 

[User211]

One sure way to see the value plummet is to keep posting on this thread.

It may well be cheaper for ML to produce new panels rather than service old ones due to labour costs & the economies of scale.

I will say this though, if you want some laser cut perforated panels in the prime quantity of two, it'll cost you a lot of money. Or so I've recently been told.

 

[User211]

Let's add bespoke to your spec perforated panels - as was the case with this particular gentleman's quote.

 

[amey01]

due to labour costs & the economies of scale.

We've already been through this Justin.........

They are the SAME.

Labor costs = Same production techniques = SAME.

Economies of scale = Same production materials = SAME.

As others have even pointed out = Labor costs are in fact lower because they moved production to Canada for this exact reason. That's if they weren't lying at the time.

 

[JayGee]

In closing, thanks for your understanding and continued support!

Scotty Wenzel

The reality is, unfortunately, that replacement panel pricing is not going to be lowered. It is quite apparent in the last line of Wenzel's statement. This phrase, while seeming warm and fuzzy is really the "p*ss off" line. Thaaat's All Folks!

 

[Len44]

Ah, yes. When I first read his note I was reminded of my days in the Air Force at SAC HQS, where the salutation, after the senior (usually a general) officer had ripped to shreds the correspondence to which he was responding, often was:

"Warm Regards"

 

[Horchem1972]

In closing, thanks for your understanding and continued support!

Scotty Wenzel
Director of Inside Sales and Product Management[/QUOTE]

We do not understand and many of us will no longer support Parlogan. I have lost all respect for the corporation that once stood for loyalty, customer service and satisfaction. It now stands for greed, not caring about loyalty,and where's the quickest dollar come from. Once the company left Gayle's hands it quickly dissolved. Martin Logan was once a proud ESL company and now is turning into a run of the mill home theater in a box factory.Good job Justin and Scotty you are an integral part in destroying a once proud company with your constant spin of the facts and lies.

 

[Rich]

This phrase, while seeming warm and fuzzy is really the "p*ss off" line. Thaaat's All Folks!

The problem for Scotty is that we "understand" all too well when we are being taken advantage of, and will never continue to support business practices that punish a loyal previous customer in order to support quarterly profit growth. We know what ML used to be, and it is all too clear what it is becoming. How many times do great brands have to fall by the wayside of capitalist greed before management figures out that you can provide stellar customer service and still make a profit.

 

[Rich]

Martin Logan was once a proud ESL company and now is turning into a run of the mill home theater in a box factory.

When they first started seriously branching into home theater products a few years ago, I was afraid this would happen and even voiced as much on this forum. Shame to see it taking place, though. The writing has been on the wall for some time now. When they sacked Jim Power, it was obvious they were throwing customer service by the wayside. When they moved panel production to Canada, it was obvious they no longer cared about the heart of the brand. Now, with the crazy price hikes for panel replacement, (none of which is justified by any of the reasons they try to put forth) it is obvious to me that they will sooner or later be giving up on the high end altogether. They will lose customers due to their changes in customer service and support, and then they will cancel the high end lines, while giving some lame excuse that there simply isn't enough market share on those lines to afford continuing them.

 

[dmusoke]

I just got a new pair of Spires a few months ago. Does this new policy apply as well?

 

[Rich]

I just got a new pair of Spires a few months ago. Does this new policy apply as well?

If you mailed in your warranty card, you have a five year warranty. After that warranty expires, then the answer is yes, you will have to pay whatever ML wants to charge you when you need to replace your panels (generally necessary within ten to fifteen years of purchase).

 

[dmusoke]

Bummer ...thx Rich! I guess i will have to be paranoidically careful about my panels. Sigh!

 

[Rich]

It's a shame. This thread turned from major praise of ML/Paradigm for admitting their mistake and re-instating lifetime support for legacy products, into a slam-fest for their blatant attempt to choke such support by charging ridiculous prices for a consumable part. Such an obvious attempt to achieve their goal of limiting product longevity in order to increase sales of new product. Talk about throwing customer goodwill into the trash. Sheesh.

I think one of the aspects of this that really angers us is the underhanded, sneaky way in which they tried to carry it out. Even though they follow this forum and know how we will react to having such things sprung on us without warning, they quietly tripled the price of replacement panels with no announcement that it was going to happen, obviously hoping to slip it past us. Makes you wonder if this was pure hubris or just plain abject stupidity from management. Perhaps a bit of both.

 

[amey01]

Makes you wonder if this was pure hubris or just plain abject stupidity from management. Perhaps a bit of both.

I'd say a large amount of both!

What makes me wonder is why ML (as a company) was bought in the first place. Obviously because the buyer saw something special in them - they were doing things right. Otherwise the company would have been worthless.

So why then - after purchase - would you go and undo all that you saw value with in the first place? That - is Class-A abject stupidity.

 

[JayGee]

The reality is, unfortunately, that replacement panel pricing is not going to be lowered. It is quite apparent in the last line of Wenzel's statement. This phrase, while seeming warm and fuzzy is really the "p*ss off" line. Thaaat's All Folks!

Having posted the above and steadfastly stand by it, my comments are specific to this subject and in no way reflect my views about Martin Logan in total. Over the last 6 months or so, I went through significant issues with new speakers and mounting issues of others. I have never experienced a company that went well beyond anything I expected to work with me and resolve the issues to my complete satisfaction. Scotty was one of those involved. Yes, they totally screwed the pooch on this subject, but that does not reflect on the fine products they produce or their commitment to complete customer satisfaction....well most of the time anyway.

To be specific about my commitment to Martin Logan, my speaker system is as follows:
Mains-- CLX
Center--Stage
Surrounds--Stylos
Rears--EFX
Subwoofer--Paradigm Sub 1 (2)

 

[mosttoysrk]

Just priced new Panels for the CLS series speakers.. This is direct from Martin Logan Today ! ARE you ready for a shock.. You better sit down.. $2750 a set !:wtf:

Now I am not saying if someone said MR C.A.P would you pay $2750 for a BRAND new pair of CLS ! HELL YES ! But its METAL and Mylar .. If they re released the CLS with today's technology and new x overs they could charge $10K and be worth it but with technology that has been repeated and paid for it self for the last 30 years how do they see charging $2750 for replacement panels.. Especially when they dont support the electronics any more. You could technically end up with a $2750 hit if your x Overs decide to belly up... Sorry I know they have to make $ but NO WAY I AM PAYING $2750 for 4 ,2x4 pieces of perforated metal and coated saran wrap. This is a example of forced discontinuation and its not how the old guard was at ML.

Martin Logan YOU have just lost another to corporate GREED !:devil:

My Fritz Carbon 7 sound just fine, and the $2750 I saved I will go on vacation for a week and still come home to good music... and be able to buy a beer ! Come on ML ..:duh:

Wow... I have been away for awhile and was catching up on some of the posts.. I felt some remorse after rushing to purchase an extra pair of panels for my CLS1's @1500.00 when I thought support was going to end. They have been sitting
in their shipping boxes for over a year now... I guess it was a good investment and I am glad I didn't cancel the order.
Incredible... they have increased the price of the panels almost three times the initial 999.00 price for CLS panels.. crazy...

 

[Rich]

Reviewing the old thread on ML moving production to Canada (from 2010), I found this response Justin posted in response to Chris asking if Panel prices would be raised:

To answer the second part, yes they will be made in Canada, and there will be no price change*.


* Note: Prices DO change over time as material costs increase, but no specific increase as a result of this move.

~Justin

So, from this information and Scotty's lame explanation above, we are to draw one of two conclusions. Either the materials costs (for two stamped sheets of metal and one sheet of mylar film and some 3M tape) have doubled in the past two years . . . or Martin Logan is lying through their teeth and simply want to squeeze a profit out of replacement parts and/or force discontinuation of legacy model support. And remember, they sold the move of production to Canada saying it was going to save them money on labor, so it surely isn't labor costs that have doubled. I think the last line in Scotty's post says it all: "If we were to continue our older pricing structure, we would be forced to evaluate the support of our older legacy products that are currently being supported." They already tried to phase out support of legacy models and faced a revolt on this site. Obviously this price increase is just their underhanded way of accomplishing the same thing with a little less fanfare.