Hi-Def DVD is coming, where do you stand?

[Reverb2009]

I believe it is the case that if you have an HDMI port, it will support HDCP (as part of the HDMI spec). DVI, not necessarily.
.

HDCP is not yet a requirement for the HDMI port, it is supported by the HDMI spec. But not required. It is being implemented by the manufactures discretion. A number of manufactures have chosen not to use HDCP on some of their budget HDMI electronics to avoid the licensing fee that comes with HDCP.

This is fact, not fiction.

 

[SteveInNC]

HDCP is not yet a requirement for the HDMI port, it is supported by the HDMI spec. But not required. It is being implemented by the manufactures discretion. A number of manufactures have chosen not to use HDCP on some of their budget HDMI electronics to avoid the licensing fee that comes with HDCP.

This is fact, not fiction.

This is the quote that kept throwing me:

"Both major satellite manufacturers (Dish and DirecTV) are now using HDCP in the DVI connections with the satellite boxes. DVD manufacturers are required to use it for DVD-based material. Thus, if you really want to use DVI, you need to be HDCP compliant, from the source to the display. This means processors, buffers, amplifiers, and switches all must be HDCP compliant. If you bought an HD TV/Projector with DVI that doesn't support HDCP, you have a problem.
...
If you have a digital display that is HDCP compliant, use HDMI or DVI (with a converter cable if necessary). There are a few DVI players out there, such as the Pioneer DV59-AVi, Samsung DVD-HD931, and Bravo D1/D2. I highly suggest that if you are getting ready to buy, make sure the product you are purchasing has DVI connections that are HDCP compliant (all HDMI connections are HDCP compliant). "

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-dvi-hdmi-hdcp-connections-11-2004.html

"Compliant" usually means conforming-with or compatible-with, but in the above context appears to be used as "implemented". Despite the above, in discussing licensing, HDMI.org indicates that you are correct in that HDCP is an option of the HDMI spec (note the "if"):

"If the Adopter implements HDCP content protection as set forth in the HDMI Specification, then the royalty rate is further reduced by one cent (US $.01) per unit sold, for a lowest rate of four cents (.04) per unit."

http://www.hdmi.org/consumer/faq.asp#becoming_adopter

 

[Reverb2009]

This is the quote that kept throwing me:


"Compliant" usually means conforming-with or compatible-with, but in the above context appears to be used as "implemented". Despite the above, in discussing licensing, HDMI.org indicates that you are correct in that HDCP is an option of the HDMI spec (note the "if"):

Go back a year and TV's that have an HDMI port may not have HDCP. What you buy in a store now should have HDCP but unless you do your homework and find out for sure, you could get screwed. Not all TV at Bestbuy right now have it.

After the HDCP announcement a few weeks ago, HDCP is now required in all DVI and HDMI ports but in 2005 and back it was not.

 

[Reverb2009]

Steve,

Have a listen to this.

This is a weekly pod cast from the HT guys, the program is AVSRadio. The last half of this is talking about HDCP, you should find it interesting and enlightening.

http://www.htguys.com/audio/2006/HDTV-2006-01-20.mp3

 

[Reverb2009]

Did you listen to the link Steve?

 

[SteveInNC]

Did you listen to the link Steve?

Yep, finally found the time. I found the segment about the Scientific Atlanta DVR with integrated DVD-R interesting, but as usual, the studios want to add an additional charge for the "burn" option for a movie (plus I'd have to get cable... )

OCAP sounds interesting, but will likely be DRM brain-dead too if it ever gets adopted. Open Cable Application Platform

"Sports fans are driving HDTV purchases ... about half of the current HDTV owners purchased their sets because of sports programming..." (yeah, because porn isn't available for it ).

re: HDCP
They didn't say much that surprised me, but they did confirm that HDMI != HDCP. The one comment that one of them made about a switch that wouldn't pass non-HDCP HDMI data to a TV that didn't support HDCP sounds to me like a non-compliant switch. I haven't bothered to dig through the spec, but I would think that a non-encoded signal should be passed in the clear to all devices.

As an aside, this reinforces my opinion that while podcasts may be great if you're a commuter, as a general form of distributing info, they are very inefficient. I could have read the copy for this cast about eight times in the time it took them to speak it, and would be able to search and refer back to the text rapidly, rather than winding back and forth like a tape machine. If you have an actual iPod or similar and can listen while you are commuting, it would be OK as an alternative.

 

[Reverb2009]

Yep, finally found the time. I found the segment about the Scientific Atlanta DVR with integrated DVD-R interesting, but as usual, the studios want to add an additional charge for the "burn" option for a movie (plus I'd have to get cable... )

OCAP sounds interesting, but will likely be DRM brain-dead too if it ever gets adopted. Open Cable Application Platform

"Sports fans are driving HDTV purchases ... about half of the current HDTV owners purchased their sets because of sports programming..." (yeah, because porn isn't available for it ).

re: HDCP
They didn't say much that surprised me, but they did confirm that HDMI != HDCP. The one comment that one of them made about a switch that wouldn't pass non-HDCP HDMI data to a TV that didn't support HDCP sounds to me like a non-compliant switch. I haven't bothered to dig through the spec, but I would think that a non-encoded signal should be passed in the clear to all devices.

As an aside, this reinforces my opinion that while podcasts may be great if you're a commuter, as a general form of distributing info, they are very inefficient. I could have read the copy for this cast about eight times in the time it took them to speak it, and would be able to search and refer back to the text rapidly, rather than winding back and forth like a tape machine. If you have an actual iPod or similar and can listen while you are commuting, it would be OK as an alternative.

It doesn’t work that way. If the player senses the switcher or any other component in line, it will ask if you’re HDCP compliant? If it gets no response the player will not pass the single.

Do you remember when DVD players first came out, if you tried to pass the video single threw a VCR or any other component, the single would get scrambled. Same thing here but instead of HDCP scrambling the picture it works or doesn’t.

As far as them saying HDMI = HDCP? They never said that.
They said to always check your specs of your TV before you buy because there are TV’s and components out there with an HDMI port and NO HDCP. Arthur even said he purchased a TV with an HDMI port and found out later it did not have HDCP.

 

[SteveInNC]

It doesn’t work that way. If the player senses the switcher or any other component in line, it will ask if you’re HDCP compliant? If it gets no response the player will not pass the single.

... which is a stupid way to implement a digital protocol. Unless the media source says "only HDCP can watch me", the rest of the chain should pass the signal on in the clear, irrespective of what is downstream. Since the HDCP protocol handshakes on a regular basis, there is also no real argument that the encrypted channel has to be established immediately at startup between the two devices since at any point the source could say "now we need to communicate via an HDCP secure channel", blanking the signal if it doesn't get an appropriate response. The devices should not require HDCP capability unless the movie asks for it. By analogy, the "downgrade analog output" bit in the hi-def protocol is a toggle: unless the program source says to downgrade analog output, the device shouldn't do it. Sony, Disney, and others have recently stated that they will NOT be turning on that bit for the foreseeable future on BluRay discs, so component video users will see full hi-def signals even without HDMI/DVI/HDCP.

(deleted)

As far as them saying HDMI = HDCP? They never said that.

Actually what I wrote was "not-equal" (!=), but the computerese got lost in translation