Hi-Def DVD is coming, where do you stand?

[Robin]

Consumer's right to choose...

If you are even remotely interested in HD-DVD/Blu-Ray: Every component that an HD signal passes through MUST have an HDCP chip in it. Yes I said chip. No not firmware upgrade. Chip.

For people with TVs/Pre-Pros/Receivers
http://gear.ign.com/articles/691/691408p1.html

For people with computers
http://www.behardware.com/articles/603-1/hdcp-the-graphic-card-and-monitor-nightmare.html

For people who think they can circumvent HDCP
http://www.engadget.com/2005/07/21/the-clicker-hdcps-shiny-red-button/

Sadly I have given up on Hi-Def content from a 5 inch disc. This is totaly ridiculous!!!. Big Content (Entertainment Industry) is treating us like we don't have a choice. They are truly taking the consumer for granted. Big Content does not want to compete in the market for our entertainment dollars. They feel that they are above that. They would rather compete by legislating away our rights (DMCA) or by boxing the consumer into a corner (HDCP, DRM).

It is not about piracy. It is about making the consumer pay for the same content multiple times. None of what they are doing is going to stop the real content pirates. But we the legitimate users will have to jump through hoop after hoop!

I JUST WANT TO LISTEN TO MUSIC AND WATCH MOVIES FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!!!!

Well I do have a choice. I have already given up on DVD-A/SACD. Add HD-DVD and Blu-Ray to that list. I can't afford to upgrade my equipment anyways.

Big Content and the DMCA are killing innovation!

socialxray,

You make some good points. I am curious as to what the future will eventually hold for us, say in the next five years.

 

[TheBobGoat]

im not sure if anyone has read this yet -- makes some good points about HDDVD being an upgrade to DVD and just a stopping place on the way to everything being avail over the net. of course i think that will be more than a couple of years.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/bizfocus/archives/2006/02/26/2003294774

that blue ray delay isnt helping PS3 at all either

 

[Robin]

Microsoft HD-DVD support...

im not sure if anyone has read this yet -- makes some good points about HDDVD being an upgrade to DVD and just a stopping place on the way to everything being avail over the net. of course i think that will be more than a couple of years.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/bizfocus/archives/2006/02/26/2003294774

that blue ray delay isnt helping PS3 at all either

TheBobGoat,

Good points and information, but I have faith in Blue-Ray. I'm gonna hold out for Blue-Ray...
Thank you for sharing this latest news article...

 

[socialxray]

Blu-Ray launches May 23rd!!!

Unfortunately I won't be joining the party.

Reason: My Hi-Def TV I bought less than 2 years ago does not have an HDCP chip and will not pass an HD signal from a Blu-Ray/HD-DVD player. Why buy hi-def when you are only going to get DVD resolution? Anyways DVDs are cheaper.

Also there are no receivers/processors on the market that have HDCP chips in them. So if you where planning on using the receiver/processor as a switching device because it has all of those HDMI inputs/outputs you are out of luck.

Lastly, there are no video/graphics cards with HDCP chips in them (no matter what the packaging may say) and oh yeah, currently there are only 2 PC monitor models that are HDCP compliant.

 

[SteveInNC]

I'm still waiting to see who'll blink first...

While all of the above DRM crap is embedded in the hardware, it's still up to the content provider to turn it on. While the **AA would love to have consumers numbed to all of this so they'll just meekly follow along, the first time that BillyBob can't watch a movie he bought, either because his TeeVee won't do HDCP or his receiver won't pass it, or his HiDef DVD player got black-listed, this may suddenly get lots of traction in the mainstream media, much like Sony's rootkit fiasco for CDs.

In other news, a congresscritter from NJ is introducing a bill to make it illegal to import/sell/buy/etc. devices that will not support another proposed variant of the "broadcast flag", this time for digital audio. The courts struck down the FCC's attempt to implement something similar due to overreaching their authority, but Congress can write authorizing legislation to allow FCC oversight:

Link at CNet News

As to HT receivers and HDCP, I would think that as long as the receiver is simply switching the various sources to the monitor out, HDCP wouldn't enter into the picture. Where it would fail is if the receiver attempted to route it as a 1-to-many output. This would fail because both ends have to handshake on a regular basis, so you can only have one producer and one consumer.

 

[Reverb2009]

Also there are no receivers/processors on the market that have HDCP chips in them. So if you where planning on using the receiver/processor as a switching device because it has all of those HDMI inputs/outputs you are out of luck.

I got conformation today that Anthems AVM-40, 50 and Statement D2 processors will have HDCP. The D2 is supposed to be shipping now and the AVM-50 will start shipping in a few weeks, the AVM-40 will be in a month or two.

 

[Reverb2009]

Socialxray,

Did you know that Blu-Ray/HD-DVD players are capable of sending a 1080 single over component video?

It will be up to the studios to decide if they use HDCP or not. It will be controlled with flags on the disk; if the studio does not flag the disk to be HDCP then you can send the video over component video. A few studios have said they don’t care about copy protection, but some studios like FOX wont go without it. If Blu-Ray or HD-DVD sales starts to fail that might be a way for the formats to pick up some late sales is to stop flagging HDCP and let it go over Component.

We will see.

 

[Taz]

Also there are no receivers/processors on the market that have HDCP chips in them. So if you where planning on using the receiver/processor as a switching device because it has all of those HDMI inputs/outputs you are out of luck.

What does this mean? My Denon 4806 is HDCP compliant. and passes through everything I have thrown at it flawlessly

 

[Reverb2009]

What does this mean? My Denon 4806 is HDCP compliant. and passes through everything I have thrown at it flawlessly

If you buy an HDMI video switcher that does not have an HDCP chip it will not pass the video single. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray rely on HDMI to pass their video and audio singles, so you receiver/pre-amp would have to have an HDMI port to get the audio in and send the video out to your TV. If the receiver has HDMI in puts and outputs but does not have an HDCP chip, it no worky

 

[Taz]

If you buy an HDMI video switcher that does not have an HDCP chip it will not pass the video single. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray rely on HDMI to pass their video and audio singles, so you receiver/pre-amp would have to have an HDMI port to get the audio in and send the video out to your TV. If the receiver has HDMI in puts and outputs but does not have an HDCP chip, it no worky

So if I am passing HD and everything else right now through my Denon HDMI then It will pass HD-DVD or Blu-Ray?

 

[Reverb2009]

So if I am passing HD and everything else right now through my Denon HDMI then It will pass HD-DVD or Blu-Ray?

It depends, if your receiver has an HDCP chip you SHOULD be fine, if it’s just passing the HDCP single? I don’t think it will work.

I would call or E-mail Denon to find out for sure.

 

[SteveInNC]

If you buy an HDMI video switcher that does not have an HDCP chip it will not pass the video single. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray rely on HDMI to pass their video and audio singles, so you receiver/pre-amp would have to have an HDMI port to get the audio in and send the video out to your TV. If the receiver has HDMI in puts and outputs but does not have an HDCP chip, it no worky

A straight signal switcher may work all right; it will depend on how the signal gets switched. If the unit attempts to run the video through any sort of processing, then it will require HDCP ability so that it can decode and reencode the video. If it is simply switching the bi-directional signal path as per a crossbar switch, it won't matter if the unit has a chip or not, since it really is just rerouting rather than decoding the signal.

Unfortunately for most of us, we send our signals through a receiver or prepro to control the audio from our various sources and switch the video to the display, so we need HDCP-compliant devices for any content that turns on HDCP "fair-use removal".

A unit that does some form of intermediate processing before passing the signal on, like a video scaler, is referred to in the HDCP spec as a Repeater.

Here is the HDCP 1.1 spec (PDF):

 

[Reverb2009]

AudioVideo Revolution.​

A First Look At Blu-Ray.​

http://www.avrev.com/news/0306/08.blu_ray.shtml​

If you do an A-B comparison you will never want to watch DVD again. For me personally, I am preordering a player today. From what I saw at the Sony lot – I won’t be able to live without that level of video in my new theater.

In Blu-ray there is 25 to 50 Gb of data space on the disc thus there is plenty of room for audio of all formats. Sony is actually releasing some movies with literally uncompressed audio in surround for some of its Blu-ray releases.

 

[68sting]

This may be a stupid question but will the HD movies acually be in a 16:9 ratio or will we still have the many different ratio's we have now with black bars?

 

[Reverb2009]

This may be a stupid question but will the HD movies acually be in a 16:9 ratio or will we still have the many different ratio's we have now with black bars?

HD-DVD/Blu-Ray material will be in the original aspect ratio the content was filmed in, unless the studio chooses to offer a pan & scan version as well.

 

[socialxray]

Well Fellas here is some good news and it also shows that us consumers still have some power in this high-tech big brother world.

Sony Studios has decided NOT to use the option of downsampling a HD signal when being sent to an analog connection. This means that older HDTVs without the onmipotent HDCP chip will be able to display a true HD signal (at least I think that's what it means).

A small victory yes but remember that Sony Studios is the only movie studio so far to adopt this stance.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060314-6377.html

 

[Reverb2009]

Yep, like I said a few posts back, the studios can choose if they want to use HDCP or not. If they don’t flag it on the disk a 1080 single can be sent over component video. If they do enable HDCP the best you could hope for is 540 or something like that.

I believe Disney is also not going to use HDCP.

 

[Robin]

Direct Video Feed...

Yep, like I said a few posts back, the studios can choose if they want to use HDCP or not. If they don’t flag it on the disk a 1080 single can be sent over component video. If they do enable HDCP the best you could hope for is 540 or something like that.

I believe Disney is also not going to use HDCP.

Joe,

I was wondering, would it be possible to run the video via HDMI connectors, from the Blue Ray player directly to my HDTV plasma TV (Pioneer 2002 HDTV model - without a HDCP decoder chip), while still having the audio from the Blue-Ray player go to the Reciever / Processor (without a HDCP decoder chip), could I avoid the HDCP encoded disc problem, and still recieve 1080, playing a HDCP flagged Blue-Ray DVD? Would the HDCP flagged DVD block the audio signal to the Reciever / Processor or not? Would the video be blocked to the HDTV plasma TV or not? Your thoughts would be greatly appricated...

 

[Reverb2009]

Joe,

I was wondering, would it be possible to run the video via HDMI connectors, from the Blue Ray player directly to my HDTV plasma TV (Pioneer 2002 HDTV model - without a HDCP decoder chip), while still having the audio from the Blue-Ray player go to the Reciever / Processor (without a HDCP decoder chip), could I avoid the HDCP encoded disc problem, and still recieve 1080, playing a HDCP flagged Blue-Ray DVD? Would the HDCP flagged DVD block the audio signal to the Reciever / Processor or not? Would the video be blocked to the HDTV plasma TV or not? Your thoughts would be greatly appricated...

Robin Welcome back, I missed you.


Well let’s see.
If you send an HDCP single over HDMI to your plasma that does not have an HDCP compliant HDMI port then, NO it will not work. When you turn on the HD player it will talk to your plasma and ask if its HDCP, if your plasma does not respond back the player will not output a single.

Check your owner’s manual see if it says anything about the HDMI port and HDCP. Or you could call or e-mail pioneer with your model # and ask if your plasma has HDCP. My three-year-old Sony Grand Vega has HDCP on its DVI port.

Hope this helps.

 

[SteveInNC]

Robin Welcome back, I missed you.



Check your owner’s manual see if it says anything about the HDMI port and HDCP. Or you could call or e-mail pioneer with your model # and ask if your

I believe it is the case that if you have an HDMI port, it will support HDCP (as part of the HDMI spec). DVI, not necessarily.

Sony has just announced that they will not use the HDCP token that down-converts analog component hi-def "for the foreseeable future", so the studios may be beginning to cave in to pressure from owners of older hi-def gear. The trial balloon may have popped...

"With the imminent war over which format will be the successor to the much-loved DVD about to get underway, Sony is throwing a bone to owners of some older HDTVs. At a technical briefing last week, Sony said that it will not use the Image Constraint Token to downsample the video output on analog HDTVs.

...
Sony is the first studio to lay out its plans for how owners of older, analog-only HD sets would be able to watch Blu-ray content. According to Sony Pictures Home Entertainment Senior VP Don Eklund, none of Sony's Blu-ray releases for the "foreseeable future" will use ICT to force downsampling.

"We have no plan to implement the Image Constraint Token. All of Sony's titles will come out of the analog output at full definition"


http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060314-6377.html