Ethan Winer may be on the verge of proving expensive interconnects don't matter.

[User211]

Sorry Gordon - yes - the Tesla KT88 is shockingly good. Easily the best KT88 I ever heard. Now marketed as EAT, and a lot more expensive. So I am not surprised you like the EAT 6922.

I've just received some KR Audio PX4s for my Lampizator DAC. Looking forward to getting to know those.

 

[RCHeliGuy]

I seem to hear marked differences with speaker cables - more so than with interconnect. I am confident I could measure it.

You would be the first to ever successfully measure a difference between speaker cables. Most of the graphs historically used by Monster Cables etc.. showed frequency ranges WAY above the human hearing range. I've seen some that show differences in the GHz range which was hillarious! At those frequencies the shape of copper actually makes a difference unlike the human hearing range which is effectively DC by comparison.

The key to a good measurement is that your microphone has to be absolutely stable and your speakers can not be allowed to move in the least when you change cables.

Moving a microphone ever so slightly will impact what is measured and speaker movement will impact what is measured.
Comb filtering is highly variable and will move the frequency curves dramatically even with small changes in a microphone's position.

Sadly if you showed graphs that you believed demonstrated the differences between speaker cables, I would consider your test flawed. "IF" companies could actually measure a difference they would be crowing from the roof tops with their results, but they can't.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Sorry Gordon - yes - the Tesla KT88 is shockingly good. Easily the best KT88 I ever heard. Now marketed as EAT, and a lot more expensive. So I am not surprised you like the EAT 6922.

Justin, Thanks for the validation. Given the fact my preamp only has one tube with a fairly long lifespan, the expense to replace is a somewhat minor consideration.

Would appreciate any other suggestions you may have on some other killer 6922 options and sources thereof.

Best,

Gordon

 

[RUR]

Would appreciate any other suggestions you may have on some other killer 6922 options and sources thereof.

Best,

Gordon

Gordon, I have a few NOS Tung-Sol 6900 and JAN-6900. Rare and expensive, they're generally described as very detailed, with folks who swear by them and others who find them just too darned detailed. Shoot me a PM if you're interested and I'll make you an offer you can't refuse.

Ken

 

[Bernard]

Justin, Thanks for the validation. Given the fact my preamp only has one tube with a fairly long lifespan, the expense to replace is a somewhat minor consideration.

Would appreciate any other suggestions you may have on some other killer 6922 options and sources thereof.

Best,

Gordon

Gordon, I highly recommend the Gold Aero Platinum Grade Gold Pin 7308 (if you can find it). I found some in San Diego many years ago @ $35 each. It's a direct replacement. They replaced a pair of NOS Mullards in my ARC preamp....a huge improvement. Gold Aero may well be a rebranded tube.

 

[amey01]

If I can't see a measurable FR change I do NOT expect to be able to hear it.

It is not just FR you can hear though. What about phase response, time domain response, distortion, etc?

 

[User211]

It is not just FR you can hear though. What about phase response, time domain response, distortion, etc?

I think you'd see those in the FR plots as delta changes.

 

[bonzo]

I seem to hear marked differences with speaker cables - more so than with interconnect. I am confident I could measure it.

The thing is, you can zoom in on an FR plot like there is no tomorrow. It is literally like using an electron microscope on the audio signal. If I can't see a measurable FR change I do NOT expect to be able to hear it.

Ethan is narking up the wrong tree I think. All that is needed is a few FR plots with different cables. The mic approach shows whether the end user is hearing a difference. If I had some alternative speaker cables to use I would do it. Well, that, and the fact I am performing some minor surgery on the Apogees at the mo to extract fractionally better performance.

You had a big difference when I had inserted the Tara Cobalt power cable into your Lampi

 

[User211]

You would be the first to ever successfully measure...

Don't make me do it. I haven't the time or the speaker cables.

I am fully aware of what you are saying but if they are talking GHz they ain't using an audio test mic.

You are wrong. Trust me (you won't). Especially in the bi-wire scenario where dissimilar cable is used. That's at least as significant as tube rolling.

 

[User211]

You had a big difference when I had inserted the Tara Cobalt power cable into your Lampi

No there wasn't, Ked. At least I heard nowt. You might have, but I didn't.

 

[bonzo]

No there wasn't, Ked. At least I heard nowt. You might have, but I didn't.

Actually you did and acknowledged it. This wasn't last trip, the one before that.

 

[Hocky]

Quite profound. Care to elaborate?

Because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if they make any difference or not. The fact that there are enough people that believe that they are effective at changing sound and having these debates will sell their products alone. And some of these people will even allow them to get away with their 10,000% margins. Hah.

I've had a few cables through my system and have decent stuff (nordost and audio quest). I like them because they're nicely made pieces, not because they make any bit of difference to the sound of my system. I don't have any problem with people liking cables for any reason, personally. I just think people should accept that they're probably experiencing a placebo and enjoy them for what they are - a designer, premium luxury item.

I sat in a cable demo at one of the big audio shows. It was laughable how many people followed along and just agreed with everything the sales guy said. I offered a bet of the $10,000 watch I was wearing if the sales guy could pick out his cables from the opposing brand 7 times out of 10 or more in front of the crowd. Of course, that offer was turned down. lol

 

[RCHeliGuy]

James Randi Offers $1 Million If Audiophiles Can Prove $7250 Speaker Cables Are Better

"He promises a million dollars (which he has waiting in an account for them) if any can prove in double-blind scientific testing that their extraordinary claims are true. None have stepped up so far."

http://gizmodo.com/305549/james-ran...iles-can-prove-7250-speaker-cables-are-better

 

[RCHeliGuy]

James Randi Offers $1 Million If Audiophiles Can Prove $7250 Speaker Cables Are Better

"He promises a million dollars (which he has waiting in an account for them) if any can prove in double-blind scientific testing that their extraordinary claims are true. None have stepped up so far."

http://gizmodo.com/305549/james-ran...iles-can-prove-7250-speaker-cables-are-better

The bottom line is that no on can actually tell the difference between speaker cables, but the placebo effect is very strong.

Anyone who discounts the accuracy of a double blind test is claiming their subjective minds paint a more accurate picture than real science.

 

[Rich]

Because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if they make any difference or not. The fact that there are enough people that believe that they are effective at changing sound and having these debates will sell their products alone. And some of these people will even allow them to get away with their 10,000% margins. Hah.

I've had a few cables through my system and have decent stuff (nordost and audio quest). I like them because they're nicely made pieces, not because they make any bit of difference to the sound of my system. I don't have any problem with people liking cables for any reason, personally. I just think people should accept that they're probably experiencing a placebo and enjoy them for what they are - a designer, premium luxury item.

I sat in a cable demo at one of the big audio shows. It was laughable how many people followed along and just agreed with everything the sales guy said. I offered a bet of the $10,000 watch I was wearing if the sales guy could pick out his cables from the opposing brand 7 times out of 10 or more in front of the crowd. Of course, that offer was turned down. lol

I have to admit, I love the irony of someone professing to wear a $10,000 watch laughing about the high price of HiFi cables. :ROFL:

 

[Rich]

The bottom line is that no on can actually tell the difference between speaker cables, but the placebo effect is very strong.

You may find this article enlightening: http://www.stereophile.com/content/...-cable-comparison-tests-0#16r65u2J9X55vBXj.97

Conclusion:

Based on the results of this informal but honest attempt to address the questions posed earlier, it does appear that in this case at least, there was a preference for the expensive cables and a definite non-preference for the cheap zipcord. So cables do make a difference.

 

[User211]

Actually you did and acknowledged it. This wasn't last trip, the one before that.

Was probably trying to placate you. Or I genuinely thought I could at the time, much though I wouldn't have been comfortable with it.

I do remember the cable it was ridiculous!

 

[bonzo]

Was probably trying to placate you. Or I genuinely thought I could at the time, much though I wouldn't have been comfortable with it.

I do remember the cable it was ridiculous!

No you were grudgingly admitting such cables work and that you were wrong about calling them foo

 

[User211]

No you were grudgingly admitting such cables work and that you were wrong about calling them foo

Hm. I don't think I would I would have said I was wrong about calling them foo, but hey.

Mooks are 100% foo, however.

 

[RCHeliGuy]

You may find this article enlightening: [/url]

Interesting but not enlightening.

It also was pathetic in a scientific sense and statistically invalid.

They even say in this article, "Since no statistical tests of significance have been applied to the results it is not possible to demonstrate that one set of cables was found to be superior to any others"

As an interesting example in test #1, 44 percent either preferred the $3 cable or didn't have a preference for the $8k cable.


I found this interesting because statistically it is pretty darn close to an even distribution.