Why doesn’t reproduced music sound like the real thing?

[Ethan Winer]

Interesting thread. I recently made a video showing an attempt to capture live instruments and play them back with the goal of having the playback sound the same as the live instruments in the room. I wasn't entirely successful, but it was a fun exercise and some of the instruments came pretty close:

Recorded Realism

--Ethan

 

[David Matz]

When I was younger and used to go to a lot of punk gigs....

This is what live was to me:

1) Going down the front and pogoing. It'd get so cramped you'd all move up and down en mass. As you went down, the heat would come up. As you went up, you'd gasp for some fresh air. It'd get so tight you could take your feet of the ground and still move with the crowd. You'd take 20 minutes of it, then take a breather, then do another 20. The energy was amazing.

2) You'd spend a week getting over the tinitus the volume at the gigs was so loud.

3) Swill down a good few pints before and during the gig. It all seemed a lot better after a few jars.

4) Try to avoid getting smacked in the face by the more agressive types.:devil:

5) SQ was almost irrelevant - as long as it was loud. The bands at the time where so packed full of energy (The Clash, The Damned, Joy Division, The Undertones, The Stranglers etc etc) and excitement it was amazing. Really &$*&!£$*&&!!! enjoyable. After the gig, you'd just feel great - like nothing else compared.

6) The dance floor would be full of broken plastic pint jars, *** butts, and split beer afterwards.

7) At a Damned gig once in London, a large percentage of the chairs got smashed and thrown towards the stage. They had to keep stopping the gig, as the bits kept landing on people. So they'd get them up on stage, covered in blood, and pronounce the gig would be stopped unless it stopped. The bouncers were indiscriminantly punching people, working from the outside of the crowd to the inside. Rough as hell (a bit like being in it, actually) but it was one of the best gigs I have ever been too!

Additionally, Captain Sensible poured a flaggon of ale over the support act, came on stage with a 30 foot inflatable dinosaur tail, but otherwise totally naked, and featured on the front page of the NME the next week!

Now THAT is live.:rocker::rocker::rocker::devil:

Don't talk to me about SQ.... blinkin' irrelevant mate. And really not necessary to having a thoroughly GREAT TIME!!!

If I could buy those days back I'd do it in an instant!

Great post!!!

 

[JMAUSGP]

Amey01,

I am sure we could devise a blind test to prove it one way or the other, but wait, didn't Yamaha do just that back in the 80s with their DSP technology, they recorded music in a cathedral in Europe and then played live and surround mode DSP recordings to a group of test subjects while they were in the cathedral, no one in the test group could consistently tell which was which. They also did a couple of famous venues both in europe and the US as part of the DSP technology and included them on their receivers as well. As I remember, it was all part of the promotional material that they distributed for their DSP A1000 surround sound receivers. But hey that was 25years ago, I still have my DSP A 1000 in fact I have 2 of them, but the promotional material I am afraid was eaten by my cat, Jeff was right.

 

[tonepub]

Amey01,

I still have my DSP A 1000 in fact I have 2 of them, but the promotional material I am afraid was eaten by my cat, Jeff was right.

HA!

Cats = Bad

 

[JMAUSGP]

And CAP, you agree with Amey01 just because you want me to host a blind test with my CLX based surround system.....maybe I will but you would have to get past my cats first...there are 30 of them one which eats whole chicken a day and large amounts of raw meat. She can take down a full sized deer and so I suspect that she could take down a human especially if they are blindfolded for a test.:devil:...there yous go the cats out of the bag, now Jeff will never speak to me again.

 

[JMAUSGP]

Holy @#$%! I just realized Ethan is holding a cat.....now it all makes sense.:ROFL:

Just kidding guys,really just kidding, sometimes this forum gets too heavy and I just gotta point out the obvious. Other than Bernard, who is funnier than George Bush, I just wish we had more levity, as he slams down his glass and cries out more levity for everyone...nuts is good too!

 

[C.A.P]

And CAP, you agree with Amey01 just because you want me to host a blind test with my CLX based surround system.....maybe I will but you would have to get past my cats first...there are 30 of them one which eats whole chicken a day and large amounts of raw meat. She can take down a full sized deer and so I suspect that she could take down a human especially if they are blindfolded for a test.:devil:...there yous go the cats out of the bag, now Jeff will never speak to me again.

Ill be glad to come over and listen to the CLX and you try and fool me. If you do Ill buy the beer. If you don't you buy the beer. .


Cats can watch too. They can fetch me my beer , Hell they can be trained right !

 

[JMAUSGP]

All but the Bobcat are trainable, she on the other hand really likes men, but you never take your eye off her or let your fingers get too close to her mouth...but hey with a blindfold on, what you can't see can't hurt you right.

 

[Bernard]

Other than Bernard, who is funnier than George Bush, I just wish we had more levity, as he slams down his glass and cries out more levity for everyone...nuts is good too!

I think you are misconscrewing some of my comments. Isn't levity something you get in yeast ? Ah! He says as the light comes on....yeast....beer....!!!

 

[amey01]

and some of the instruments came pretty close:

Some instruments come sound a lot better than others. There have been several attempts at expalining it.

I find most wind instruments to be pretty accurately portrayed, however percussion and piano are amongst the worst.

 

[amey01]

7) At a Damned gig once in London, a large percentage of the chairs got smashed and thrown towards the stage. They had to keep stopping the gig, as the bits kept landing on people. So they'd get them up on stage, covered in blood, and pronounce the gig would be stopped unless it stopped. The bouncers were indiscriminantly punching people, working from the outside of the crowd to the inside. Rough as hell (a bit like being in it, actually) but it was one of the best gigs I have ever been too!

Geez.......sounds like enormous fun!

Glad I wasn't there.

 

[User211]

That gig was amazing because I have never, in my entire life, seen anything like it.

Half the problem was The Damned were going through a phase of not coming on before midnight, and the support act (Auntie Pus - charming!), came off well before.

There were chants of "We want the Captain! We want the Captain!" for ages, together with rising tension, impatience, and smashed up theatre. They had just released "Smash It Up", which is half the reason the theatre got obliterated, I guess. Sadly some got pretty badly hurt. The pit in front of the stage became full of broken chairs/bits of theatre.

When they finally did come on, the whole place went insane. I whilst it got stopped a few times, the atmosphere was completely mad throughout. The naked Captain got pulled into the audience a number of times via his inflatable dinosaur tail.

The shot in the NME was fortunately with his guitar in front of his bits, as a number of remarks had been made about...

The venue was The Rainbow for any UK readers.

Anyway, Adam, you're an Australian - you just wouldn't understand how it was over here then. I'll confess to being pretty scared at times, though, along with my mates.

The Clash were another amazing live band... but that is another story.

 

[amey01]

Anyway, Adam, you're an Australian - you just wouldn't understand how it was over here then. I'll confess to being pretty scared at times, though, along with my mates.

I'll take it I don't understand. I may be too young as well!

But funny how I don't find being scared and covered with blood "fun". Sorry.

 

[User211]

The scared bit is just an adrenaline rush... like going too fast in a car, or parachuting etc...

The covered in blood bit is NOT fun, and I never said it was...

But the gig was awesome. Anyway, enough on that one.

 

[Ethan Winer]

Some instruments come sound a lot better than others. There have been several attempts at expalining it. I find most wind instruments to be pretty accurately portrayed, however percussion and piano are amongst the worst.

Right, larger instruments are more difficult to capture, though I imagine recording in an anechoic chamber from more of a distance could get pretty close. Then you can get far enough away to capture the total sound of the instrument, but without having room tone added to the recording.

--Ethan

 

[FISH_MAN]

maybe your answer is in the question itself reproductions just are not as good as the original period

 

[C.A.P]

Do the LIAR test and its that simple. The LIAR test is Listening In Another Room. Put a live band in any room and listen in another room and try and duplicate that with a system in the same room as the band, you wont even come close !

There is no way you can bring the Musikverein Hall to my house! This has been beaten to death. 7.1 done right with the best gear can bring a great pleasure to some but its NOT live and never will be. I am not trying to discredit those who enjoy MCM but, How do you take a piece that has timing cues and ambiance and record it through a mixer and master it with cone speakers (Very few if any use ESL) and play it back through a 7.1 ESL surround system with all its timing and added ambiance. By the time your done its not what was mastered. The best MCM or HT systems I have heard have been through CONES . Yes I have heard a few with ESL and did not like the added sense of them selves. Remember, I like HT and have one. By the way the nearest to fooling me was a Horn system Klipsch IIRC !

As I stated before in a thred a while back ESL have NO place in HT.(Read the thred link) If you want to respond to that do it in that thred as to not hijack this one !

http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6447

 

[JMAUSGP]

CAP just take a chill pill, your post sounds ****ed. Remember you are stating a personal opinion and not facts. Me thinks yee protests too much.

 

[Bernard]

There is no way you can bring the Musikverein Hall to my house!

I attended a concert at the Musikverein once; it was truly awesome. We got seats at the very last minute, and they were not the best, but the sound was amazing. Wish I could afford to do it again.

 

[JMAUSGP]

Bernard, my guess, is that we won't be going to CAPs house to hear and concerts in Muskiville. Although some Xanax my change the situation.