ML Production moving

[Gordon]

What impressed me about ML when I was seriously considering buying a pair is the availability of panels for older models. While I probably will never own an older pair, it is a comforting thought to know the support is/was available.

The same thought applies to my electronics. McIntosh has been making gear for 60 years and they can still support I believe 99% of any piece made. There are many small, one or two man operations which produce some fine gear but I want them there when I need them.

Rich, I've owned Paradigm Studio 100's and the Signature S8. The cabinetry was absolutely stunning. The Studio 100's were black and the Sig's were a Cherry finish that looked deep enough to swim in. The tweets were harsh on my ears after a short listening period, the mids were OK and the bottom was a bit lean in my opinion. The P'dimes were a great HT speaker, but I thought they fell apart in 2 channel. Hopefully, ML is not headed in that direction.

Justin, I'd also like the ability to eliminate the woofer amp from the Spire. I'd like to see if my amps could control the woofer. I also think there is room for a speaker between the Summit X and the CLX with no woofer. Thanks for giving some corporate input but I think you guys should have jumped in a bit sooner.

Gordon

 

[cyclone]

What impressed me about ML when I was seriously considering buying a pair is the availability of panels for older models. While I probably will never own an older pair, it is a comforting thought to know the support is/was available.

At what point will your speakers be deemed older?

 

[amey01]

While I probably will never own an older pair, it is a comforting thought to know the support is/was available.

This is not the point - do you want a re-saleable product or a disposable piece of junk? Don't forget how much you've paid!!

.......20 years.......

For the third time I say - we're talking high-end audio components here from a legendary manufacturer steeped in tradition.

We're not talking plastic bits of junk from Apple or Dell!!!!

Come on - this is the most serious thing that has appeared on these forums! As soon as I see evidence of this I'm out. Sorry. It's that serious.

 

[jtwrace]

Come on - this is the most serious thing that has appeared on these forums! As soon as I see evidence of this I'm out. Sorry. It's that serious.

I bailed on ML when there was talk of being at Best Buy. My dad and I used to drive an hour to our favorite shop to purchase ML's. Now Best Buy? Nope. Not me.
It used to be nobody knew what ML was...now everyone seems to know. Amazing what Best Buy can do.


Done with ML's. Have fun ML going the Bose Route.

Best part is that I haven't missed them one bit.

 

[Rich]

I'll try to stay out of the way Rich. I thought I'd try a different angle. It really appears that this is your thread.

And at this point, I think I'm done with it.

BS, Gordon! This is a COMMUNITY thread. And I would say one of the more important ones ever discussed in this particular community. I didn't start it, but I did realize the importance of it early on and have worked with a few others to keep it alive in the face of belittling remarks and demands for closure from those who would rather stick their head in the sand than continue to "beat the dead horse."

Look at the information we have learned and the dialog with Justin that has emerged from this thread. Imagine that none of that would have happened had we listened to those who didn't want to hear all the "negativity and conjecture" and demanded that this thread be closed. Am I surprised that not one of them has been man enough to come forth and apologize or at least admit that maybe they were wrong? No, not in the least.

 

[Len44]

Look at the information we have learned and the dialog with Justin that has emerged from this thread. Imagine that none of that would have happened had we listened to those who didn't want to hear all the "negativity and conjecture" and demanded that this thread be closed.

I was just thinking the same thing...

 

[miljac]

Maybe some of you guys who visited the Lawrence factory can shed more light on this ...

As I've seen from a movie on YouTube the new panels look like having been machine fabricated, not a handwork that it used to be - this might be one of the reasons for the production moving and the announcement of (maybe) discontinuing producing the panels for the older models. Does anyone know if the above stement may be true?

In any case it would be good news for us if ML could state that either:

- they will continue providing replacements panels (and other parts for that matter) for older models

or

- develop and produce new generation panels for the old models, those being a 100% drop in replacement.

In this way they would prove that they care about their existing customer base as much as they do about creating new business.

 

[Bernard]

you know Bernard I was thinking about that as well but did not say anything. in the past wasn't their story something about importation had something to do with the monetary raping??? looks like the shoe is on the other foot now.

The "import duty" thing from Plurison is a crock. I have not priced ML speakers here recently, but when I bought mine there was not a huge price differential with prices in the U.S., so I don't see how there could be a huge import duty on panels but not on the whole speaker.

 

[Brad225]

I bailed on ML when there was talk of being at Best Buy. My dad and I used to drive an hour to our favorite shop to purchase ML's. Now Best Buy? Nope. Not me.
It used to be nobody knew what ML was...now everyone seems to know. Amazing what Best Buy can do.


Done with ML's. Have fun ML going the Bose Route.

Best part is that I haven't missed them one bit.

Jason your old ML's just called to say they have not missed you either.

 

[Rich]

I bailed on ML when there was talk of being at Best Buy.

Understand your feeling there, Jason. Of course, the flip side of that argument is that your Finals bailed on you because they couldn't survive in the high end marketplace.

 

[jtwrace]

Jason your old ML's just called to say they have not missed you either.

Great!

Understand your feeling there, Jason. Of course, the flip side of that argument is that your Finals bailed on you because they couldn't survive in the high end marketplace.

No doubt. I will say though that the way the US importer ran his business didn't help the cause...

Final was bought out by another company and now supports the "old" models as well as some new coming. I have my 1000i's for sale as I went the DIY route. I've never been this content.

I, like many of you have a great passion for the ML "classic" series. I just hate what they are doing to what Gayle did. I wonder what Jim Powers REALLY thinks. It's a shame!!!!

 

[Brad225]

I, like many of you have a great passion for the ML "classic" series. I just hate what they are doing to what Gayle did. I wonder what Jim Powers REALLY thinks. It's a shame!!!!

Don't you think it's an evolution of the product it self.

I personally prefer the sound of some the older speakers but clearly there are enough people that feel other wise that the company can move forward with new products.

The fact that Gayle created a product base with technology that's still moving forward is a tribute to him. At least that's the way I look at it.

Should Henry Ford be insulted to see amazing cars that you are part of putting on the track today?

 

[Horchem1972]

I am all forward for moving ahead but do not forget the ones that got you there.A pair of Monolith's and II's were almost $6000 purchased in the early 80's.I for one,own a pair of Monolith II's.If they have a machine setup to produce panels all they lose is the amount of time to adjust the machine.There may not be any extra cost involved.I for one would like updated woofer and panel options for the Monolith's.If not,please still at least let panels and parts be available.Many people seem to forget the loyal,long term ML owners.Many people simply cannot afford to spend 6-7 thousand dollars on speakers,in this economy.For many people on budgets with families the attitude of just buy an extra set now is not an option.I and many others wish I had $2000 of disposable income at the drop of the hat.I have owned 4 sets of ML speakers and have enjoyed them all knowing that parts were always available.As much as I love my Monolith's,they will be worthless if they discontinue panels.I as many others will look at differant speakers if they do this.It is not a threat or a warning but a fact of life.If you cannot afford new ML's you will have to look elsewhere.

 

[FISH_MAN]

Understand your feeling there, Jason. Of course, the flip side of that argument is that your Finals bailed on you because they couldn't survive in the high end marketplace.

LOLOLOL that's a good one Rich.

 

[-justin-]

Just out of curiosity, do you know whether the esl panels themselves will still be put together by hand, or will this process become more automated at the new factory?

There is no automated machine capable of doing this, so yes, all ESL panels will still be hand built.

You didn't really answer my question about the size and growth of your R&D department. If you aren't growing it, and they are spending more and more of their time researching and designing new products for the home theater lines, that would naturally leave them a lot less time to drive technology forward at the high end. Hence the question.

That's where we can draw expertise and experience from Paradigm. While our R&D department isn't growing (at least, not that I'm aware) they now have a lot more resources so they can spend time developing the stuff they love to develop. Plus, we chain each one to their desks now, so we've cut out a lot of free time they use to have

One more point -- these guys rock. They loved to be pushed to develop the best sounding stuff they can, and put to the test, they've always delivered.

One final question for you:

What question do you begin each day with?

That depends on the day. Usually it's "Why is my dog walking on my head? Oh yeah, he wants food."

~Justin

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
Gordon, I certainly do not find this to be Rich's Thread. Rather, he is one of the few asking questions that need to be asked.

I have been taking part in this Thread since the first page and do agree with that had this Thread not generated the interest it has, there probably would not be dialog with Representatives of Martin Logan on this Thread.

Regardless of what has been said to placate us, I do not feel better about the direction of this Company. I purchased my Aerius i's in 1997 and have owned them and now Vantages, Stage, Vistas, Montages, and a Depth in my HT. I love them all and have no regrets.
Cheers,
ML

 

[RichTeer]

The "import duty" thing from Plurison is a crock. I have not priced ML speakers here recently, but when I bought mine there was not a huge price differential with prices in the U.S., so I don't see how there could be a huge import duty on panels but not on the whole speaker.

Agreed, especially when one considers NAFTA...

 

[Rich]

As the CLS models are 20+ years old, I can't say I'd expect them to make panels forever.

Jeff, I meant to respond to this earlier but I forgot. Do you seriously believe this? Certainly this decision would never have been made while Gayle ran the company. Does Roger Sanders still support every speaker he ever made? What about Quad? Soundlabs? Magnepan? Bose?


Ok, I just threw that last one in there to see if you were paying attention. But you get my point.

 

[Rich]

One final question for you:

What question do you begin each day with?

That depends on the day. Usually it's "Why is my dog walking on my head? Oh yeah, he wants food."

Hmmm. Funny, but . . . Wrong answer.

From a Martin Logan brochure from 2004:

"As you read through this brochure you will clearly see that every individual, whether they are involved in design/engineering or service or manufacturing, starts every day with one question; “What’s the ideal solution for the MartinLogan customer?" That’s what we do."
Gayle Martin Sanders—founder

In all seriousness, if Martin Logan loses this absolute, unflinching commitment to their customers (and it appears perhaps you already have), then the reputation for the brand built over thirty years will be shattered in a heartbeat and your loyal, repeat customers will dessert you in droves and never look back.

Supporting your legacy products . . . all of them . . . is the ideal solution for the Martin Logan customer. Otherwise, why should anyone even consider buying a CLX over, say, a Soundlab?

 

[spectral]

More requests for Justin/ML

God, this thread is nauseatingly long... I will second and third what some of the other members have already said and add a few:

1) Larger panels in otherwise hybrid designs
2) No-powered-woofer options
3) Improved box construction with modern, in-vogue, materials like aluminum, birch plys et al - no more MDF.
4) Go back to rounded edges around the box, as in the Prodigy family
5) Crossovers with ultra premium parts
6) More advanced woofer cones and magnets
7) Bring back the fuller sound of the Prodigy family

and if I may be so bold...

8) Replace that chimney guy with a good high end audio professional