Lifetime Service for MartinLogan Products
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Bernard
Well-known member
They will do what executives of all sinking ships do - give themselves bonuses.
Yeah, I was thinking about that. My panels need to be replaced, to the tune of about $1,700 (including taxes). Don't think I'll do it.
Audioseduction
Well-known member
I would not sacrifice performance buy purchasing a pair of Magnepans over my Summit Xs.
The new Quad range of Electrostatics are just as good as ML's, not forgetting Soundlabs which are probably even better.
amey01
Well-known member
I would not sacrifice performance by purchasing a pair of speakers which might be in the rubbish in five years and one day.
Nor would I sacrifice performance by settling for "near enough is good enough" because they might have rolled off highs but the repair cost is more than they're worth.
Less not would I sacrifice future performance by having a pair of speakers which will be worth diddly-squat trade-in toward my next purchase. A future upgrade may well turn into a downgrade. I won't entertain that possibility.
There are so many good speakers that do not "sacrifice performance".
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This is quite complicated and unfortunate thing to happen. Market areas outside US have had this issue of cost of replacement panels since day 1. It is an issue. Without a (good) market for used equipment selling new will be affected. Potential buyers will consider the expense level of their equipment and the resale value of their equipment.
I'm certain that ML would have sold quite some more speakers if panel price had been lower, now we need to remember that here in EU we already have been paying 2-3x what it costs in US. Some of the price increase in understandable and acceptable and should have happened over a period of time.
Corporate managements like to split up operations to separate divisions and then making each division accountable, over some profit margin. Sometimes it means ending some part of operation sometimes increased expense for customer. This would seem like reasonable way of managing business but.. making some profit in some sector (services) can lead in to negative affects on other (sales).
I wonder what will be the cost of replacement panels over here as 3x increase would make rebuild cost higher than buying same speaker brand new?
I'm certain that ML would have sold quite some more speakers if panel price had been lower, now we need to remember that here in EU we already have been paying 2-3x what it costs in US. Some of the price increase in understandable and acceptable and should have happened over a period of time.
Corporate managements like to split up operations to separate divisions and then making each division accountable, over some profit margin. Sometimes it means ending some part of operation sometimes increased expense for customer. This would seem like reasonable way of managing business but.. making some profit in some sector (services) can lead in to negative affects on other (sales).
I wonder what will be the cost of replacement panels over here as 3x increase would make rebuild cost higher than buying same speaker brand new?
User211
Well-known member
http://www.oxfordaudio.co.uk/
That's the place I bought all my Logan stuff from - including replacement panels. Three years back, I paid £700 for some replacement Ascent panels, then got a disappointing £900 when I put the Ascents on ebay 2 years later. You could always drop them an e-mail, Rich.
As a non-owner, I'm not too bothered anymore, I guess, otherwise I'd do it.
That's the place I bought all my Logan stuff from - including replacement panels. Three years back, I paid £700 for some replacement Ascent panels, then got a disappointing £900 when I put the Ascents on ebay 2 years later. You could always drop them an e-mail, Rich.
As a non-owner, I'm not too bothered anymore, I guess, otherwise I'd do it.
Sambob2
Well-known member
Curious...
Can you imagine what concern this thread is doing to potential/new member/owners of ML product...?
I don’t post a lot lately – used to - but do like to check in now and then. Never expected to see this one coming.
My ReQuests which I purchased new in 1999 have been sitting in storage for about the past 7 years now (Due to sub-dividing my listening room to accommodate our child). When I do want to listen, I do so by physically moving them from the corners of the room into a reasonable place – albeit temporarily. Although the setup is short-term and not acoustically symmetrical as the permanent setup was, I persisted. I persist at getting that “audiophile high” listening to the reproduced music only an ESL can do. I have used them very seldom but hold onto them for a reason – I never think about selling them - ever.
One day on August 28, 1999 on a whim, I felt like taking a trip to the local audio salon Woodbridge Stereo to have a listen to some equipment, which at the time was located in West Caldwell New Jersey. I heard a piano coming form the back room, the high end room, which to me sounded like someone was actually playing a real piano and not a playback of a recording. I was so taken by the accuracy of the setup that I spent a few hours in that room listening to albums and compact discs with the salesperson. I was sold on the quality of the sound reproduction from these new speakers, ReQuests. They were of the ESL technology that Martin Logan manufactures. They were not dynamic cone design, they are ESL. The speed and accuracy was light years ahead of any other speaker I listed too in my affordable price range.
I purchased the ReQuests in October of 99 and have enjoyed many years of trouble free music reproduction listening to many recordings, and still do when I can. I also own a Descent to compliment the already capable ReQuests. I planned to own and enjoy them for untold years. I called ML customer service twice in that time of the original staff and ownership, once to obtain a (one) new binding post, the other to inquire about replacing the cloth on one of my lower grill covers. Both of those times I was connected to Jim Power and both times I was a completely satisfied customer. In fact, I received a set of binding posts, no charge.
As of lately, I find myself very concerned with this change at ML particularly with the response, support, unwelcome surprises, dissatisfaction of current owners, and the ongoing developing reputation that is so different from what I knew. I am a manufacturing engineer by trade in the high reliability segment for the past 21 years, and educated as a mechanical engineer. One of my responsibilities as a Mfg. Eng. is to determine and implement best practice on how to manufacture a product at the lowest cost without sacrificing expected quality level specked out by customer requirements. It is very difficult if not impossible to manufacture high end reliable product at low cost yet obtain the highest quality – if you do it is considered cheap, not low cost but cheap. Cheap is garbage, low cost is engineered smart. When I purchased Martin Logan I did not want cheap. I do not expect replacement panels to be cheap or low cost however, I also don’t like unexpected surprises nor to be ripped off. When I first heard that there would be lifetime service for ML’s, I thought I would be ok for a while. Now it seems that is not true. I would have liked to have known so I had a chance to obtain panels before the surprise took place. I am not convinced with the responses trying to justify the cost for replacement parts I’ve seen here…it’s too much $$ in too short a time. I am pretty certain it’s being driven from the top down and it is greed.
ML to me is all about electrostatic technology…some of the best out on the market, the best customer support and service, and listening to its customers. Perhaps I should change that from current to past tense. So much seems like it has changed since the original team stood tall in Kansas.
This thread has a lot of views, a lot. I can’t imagine what new members and owners are thinking…it would certainly drop my jaw and cause me to reconsider…
Can you imagine what concern this thread is doing to potential/new member/owners of ML product...?
I don’t post a lot lately – used to - but do like to check in now and then. Never expected to see this one coming.
My ReQuests which I purchased new in 1999 have been sitting in storage for about the past 7 years now (Due to sub-dividing my listening room to accommodate our child). When I do want to listen, I do so by physically moving them from the corners of the room into a reasonable place – albeit temporarily. Although the setup is short-term and not acoustically symmetrical as the permanent setup was, I persisted. I persist at getting that “audiophile high” listening to the reproduced music only an ESL can do. I have used them very seldom but hold onto them for a reason – I never think about selling them - ever.
One day on August 28, 1999 on a whim, I felt like taking a trip to the local audio salon Woodbridge Stereo to have a listen to some equipment, which at the time was located in West Caldwell New Jersey. I heard a piano coming form the back room, the high end room, which to me sounded like someone was actually playing a real piano and not a playback of a recording. I was so taken by the accuracy of the setup that I spent a few hours in that room listening to albums and compact discs with the salesperson. I was sold on the quality of the sound reproduction from these new speakers, ReQuests. They were of the ESL technology that Martin Logan manufactures. They were not dynamic cone design, they are ESL. The speed and accuracy was light years ahead of any other speaker I listed too in my affordable price range.
I purchased the ReQuests in October of 99 and have enjoyed many years of trouble free music reproduction listening to many recordings, and still do when I can. I also own a Descent to compliment the already capable ReQuests. I planned to own and enjoy them for untold years. I called ML customer service twice in that time of the original staff and ownership, once to obtain a (one) new binding post, the other to inquire about replacing the cloth on one of my lower grill covers. Both of those times I was connected to Jim Power and both times I was a completely satisfied customer. In fact, I received a set of binding posts, no charge.
As of lately, I find myself very concerned with this change at ML particularly with the response, support, unwelcome surprises, dissatisfaction of current owners, and the ongoing developing reputation that is so different from what I knew. I am a manufacturing engineer by trade in the high reliability segment for the past 21 years, and educated as a mechanical engineer. One of my responsibilities as a Mfg. Eng. is to determine and implement best practice on how to manufacture a product at the lowest cost without sacrificing expected quality level specked out by customer requirements. It is very difficult if not impossible to manufacture high end reliable product at low cost yet obtain the highest quality – if you do it is considered cheap, not low cost but cheap. Cheap is garbage, low cost is engineered smart. When I purchased Martin Logan I did not want cheap. I do not expect replacement panels to be cheap or low cost however, I also don’t like unexpected surprises nor to be ripped off. When I first heard that there would be lifetime service for ML’s, I thought I would be ok for a while. Now it seems that is not true. I would have liked to have known so I had a chance to obtain panels before the surprise took place. I am not convinced with the responses trying to justify the cost for replacement parts I’ve seen here…it’s too much $$ in too short a time. I am pretty certain it’s being driven from the top down and it is greed.
ML to me is all about electrostatic technology…some of the best out on the market, the best customer support and service, and listening to its customers. Perhaps I should change that from current to past tense. So much seems like it has changed since the original team stood tall in Kansas.
This thread has a lot of views, a lot. I can’t imagine what new members and owners are thinking…it would certainly drop my jaw and cause me to reconsider…
Last year I bought a used Logos , because I had seen that ML support every model . Like expected the Logos need a new membrame , a local tried to do this but the result was dissapointed so I want to order a new one but like you already know : no panels sold by ML anymore .
I have also a pair of Summits (build in 2006),normally the are playing fantastic but sinds a few weeks one of them is 'plopping ' and cleaning don't help .(they are very clean) tried everything . The price of new panels (holland/europe): € 3300,- .... = $ 4000,= .Scott was very kind but that don't help me with mine problems.
If I had to buy new speakers I shall go for the B&W . Model 802D is the same price as the Summit but never have to change a expensive 'panel ' .
I cann't agree more with @sambob2 . If you buy some speakers you must trust the seller that spareparts (panels) prices don't rises so quickly skyhigh.
I have also a pair of Summits (build in 2006),normally the are playing fantastic but sinds a few weeks one of them is 'plopping ' and cleaning don't help .(they are very clean) tried everything . The price of new panels (holland/europe): € 3300,- .... = $ 4000,= .Scott was very kind but that don't help me with mine problems.
If I had to buy new speakers I shall go for the B&W . Model 802D is the same price as the Summit but never have to change a expensive 'panel ' .
I cann't agree more with @sambob2 . If you buy some speakers you must trust the seller that spareparts (panels) prices don't rises so quickly skyhigh.
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Peter_Klim
Well-known member
I wish I purchased apair of the ReQuest panels 2 (or 3?) years back at $900 when I did for my Sequel II ($700). Because now I need them and they say it costs $1800!!! "We found out we were under charging our customers" - lol, yeah, more like you found out a new way to put more money in your pockets!!
amey01
Well-known member
Only for the short-term. There are many long time members/customers who won't be buying ML ever again because of this.......
Just read some of the previous pages.
Peter_Klim
Well-known member
Yes, I read them.
When I ordered the panels from Jim Powers (was that his name), I was a bit concerned that the ReQuest panels will go up in price when I definitely needed them, since a few years before the SQL2 panels went up about 10% to the $700 I paid. I thought at most, today the ReQuest panels would have gone up to $1000. But NOT $1800!!! I told Jim back then that maybe I should just get the ReQuest panels and store them till the ones I have go bad. He said I shouldn't be worried. I just SOOOO wish I did get them then!
Jim was such as nice and helpful man.
When I ordered the panels from Jim Powers (was that his name), I was a bit concerned that the ReQuest panels will go up in price when I definitely needed them, since a few years before the SQL2 panels went up about 10% to the $700 I paid. I thought at most, today the ReQuest panels would have gone up to $1000. But NOT $1800!!! I told Jim back then that maybe I should just get the ReQuest panels and store them till the ones I have go bad. He said I shouldn't be worried. I just SOOOO wish I did get them then!
Jim was such as nice and helpful man.
Yep. One of the best customer service representatives EVER! And canned by the new MartinLogan (or should I say Para-Logan) in order to save a few bucks.
sleepysurf
Well-known member
The new ML is clearly more profit-oriented than the old ML, but their overall customer-service focus appears to remain intact. One of my Summit woofer control knob set screws fell out (and apparently vacuumed up), so I emailed ML asking how I can order a replacement. Within hours, Kurt Stockhammer replied asking for my mailing address, and sent a replacement at no charge. Not sure if Kurt is now the main customer support person (following in the footsteps of Jim, Melodie, and Dana), but it's encouraging to see the rapid response. Unlike some others, I still consider myself a rabid ML fan, and am patiently awaiting my next ML purchase (if/when a Summit X replacement comes out).
jmschnur
Well-known member
It may well be the the new panels will offer much longer lifetimes . It would be nice to see a longer warranty of their recent reserve offerings.
J
J
amey01
Well-known member
They've said that in the past, but history has shown otherwise.
Besides - accidents do happen.
Peter_Klim
Well-known member
I wish. The guy on the phone a few weeks ago didn't mention anything about the new panels lasting longer. All he said was "we found out that we were undercharing our customers".
McMo
Member
Okay, the good thing first - whenever I send a mail to the support team, Dana does always answer fast and in a way that I feel myself been taken serious.
Now the bad stuff: I ordered replacement panels for my SL3 at my local dealer in April this year and paid 1.200 € (~ 1.600 $), seems like I was fast enough to get around the total price increase, though it still is a whole lot of money for a pair of speaker with a market value of round about 1.200 € here in Germany. Okay, I love them, so what can I do? :sad:
The real bad thing is: after more half a year, the panels still didn´t arrive!
According to Dana they were shipped in early November...
Does anybody consider a delivery time of > 6 months reasonable?
Next I was looking for some adjustable spikes to replace my RDC´s and tried to get some ETC spikes through the german distributor Audio Components. They quoted me more than 400,- € (> 500$) for a set!
I´m pretty used to spend money on my equipment, but 500 $ for a set of spikes? :wtf:
To me it seems ML has lost any contact to earth - I was looking for a new pair of speakers and I´m sorry to say that I might return to Audio Physic but surely not to ML!
Now the bad stuff: I ordered replacement panels for my SL3 at my local dealer in April this year and paid 1.200 € (~ 1.600 $), seems like I was fast enough to get around the total price increase, though it still is a whole lot of money for a pair of speaker with a market value of round about 1.200 € here in Germany. Okay, I love them, so what can I do? :sad:
The real bad thing is: after more half a year, the panels still didn´t arrive!
According to Dana they were shipped in early November...
Does anybody consider a delivery time of > 6 months reasonable?
Next I was looking for some adjustable spikes to replace my RDC´s and tried to get some ETC spikes through the german distributor Audio Components. They quoted me more than 400,- € (> 500$) for a set!
I´m pretty used to spend money on my equipment, but 500 $ for a set of spikes? :wtf:
To me it seems ML has lost any contact to earth - I was looking for a new pair of speakers and I´m sorry to say that I might return to Audio Physic but surely not to ML!
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