Ethan Winer may be on the verge of proving expensive interconnects don't matter.

[Gordon Gray]

Mark,

Please provide a price benchmark regarding what you think are "expensive" cables. You seem to be unwilling to provide but it would help me and others to put your biases / beliefs into context.

FWIW, I have one piece of wire in my system that was slightly over $1K (used). The remainder are all under $1K.

I don't think my brain has been deceived by factors including marketing BS. I am very cost / performance oriented regarding wire I purchase and I take the price / benefit ration quite seriously in the decision purchase equation.

Gordon

 

[RCHeliGuy]

For comparison sake, the combination of all of the cables I purchased XLR cables, speakers cables, USB cable and power cables came to about $160 and my speaker cables which were half that cost are major overkill. However they look pretty, so there is that

I detailed this in a previous post. I spent a little more than I thought they were worth.

For example I got shorter power cables for my speakers and got a 3 pack for ~$15. My USB cable was $7.69. Those were priced well.

I ended up spending $35 each on my XLR preamp to amp connectors. They were overkill but looked pretty. The speaker cable was similarly overkill but pretty. I paid some for aesthetics.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Thanks Mark. Puts things into context.

I assume you are joking about the aesthetics.

Personally, how a cable looks is something I don't consider in my wire purchasing decision. Nobody sees my wire. It's all basically hidden by other things and most of it is generic black anyways.

As previously stated, price / performance within the context of total system cost is my main criteria.

 

[RCHeliGuy]

Thanks Mark. Puts things into context.

I assume you are joking about the aesthetics.

Personally, how a cable looks is something I don't consider in my wire purchasing decision. Nobody sees my wire. It's all basically hidden by other things and most of it is generic black anyways.

As previously stated, price / performance within the context of total system cost is my main criteria.

Actually I'm not joking about aesthetics.

I will pay for something that looks pretty. The braided XLR cables looked nice, but as you say, they are hidden.

The speaker cable I purchased back when I was finishing up college in 1989. It's huge, looks nice and I already had it sitting in a box, so it seemed wasteful if I didn't use it.

I'm under no delusions that they make my stereo sound better but I still like the look of a meaty cable.

I also see no relationship to to the overall system cost. If I got a pair of Neoliths, I wouldn't change my cabling because of it unless I was embarrassed by the appearance of something.

 

[Gordon Gray]

OK.

Suffice to say I have a different perspective.

I'm glad you like the way your cables look.

 

[twich54]

a little 'lite' reading .............

http://www.audioholics.com/gadget-reviews/speaker-cable-and-audio-interconnects

I'm merely the messenger here, food for thought .........

 

[RCHeliGuy]

a little 'lite' reading .............

http://www.audioholics.com/gadget-reviews/speaker-cable-and-audio-interconnects

I'm merely the messenger here, food for thought .........

Excellent and on point!

 

[Gordon Gray]

Dave,

I've seen this before.

I'm confident that EW and others who shares his views will agree with article contents.

Food for thought? I'll check with my dog to see if she's hungry.

Gordon

 

[amey01]

I don't care what anyone spends their money on, but I do consider is foolish when people are deceived into wasting their money.

Good paragraph Mark.

Now - I'm not going to saw whether there is any deceit in analogue cabling, however I think we all agree there is a lot of deceit in the audio world.

This is where the value of discussion on forums like this comes in

 

[amey01]

My USB cable was $7.69. Those were priced well.

If anyone tries to argue that there are differences in USB cables, I'll certainly have a more absolute opinion on that!

There's one categorically for the "deceit" category, and I am proudly going to say that without ever having compared any USB cable in my system.

 

[RCHeliGuy]

If anyone tries to argue that there are differences in USB cables, I'll certainly have a more absolute opinion on that!

There's one categorically for the "deceit" category, and I am proudly going to say that without ever having compared any USB cable in my system.

Exactly, USB cables can't have any impact, period. It's utterly and completely impossible.

Power cords take power from "50 cent per foot ROMEX" in the wall and carry it to the electronics. They can not add any music quality and the only reason they are more expensive than 50 cent per foot ROMEX is for convenience. They need end connectors and stranded cable that is easy to route. Otherwise you would be fine running a couple bucks worth of ROMEX straight from the wall to your electronics.

Interconnects and speaker cable just need to be appropriate for their load or any impedance requirements and they need.

 

[C.A.P]

I wont bite the carrot here but RC, You seem to be making blanket statements based on a few who lean hard to one side.. I ask one question. Have you ever blind listened to a system and said WOW! that sounds RIGHT? I have heard systems with 25k of wiring and IC that were ear bleeders.. Some old 60's BOZAK Symphony that were amazing with a old receiver and LAMP cord...Like I said earlier, SYNERGY and balance.. Do you need 10k worth of cables,NO ! BUT UNTILL YOU TRY THEM IN YOUR SYSTEM ,BLAKET STATEMENTS AND ADJECTIVES THAT BACK THEM ARE OPINIONS.. Sometimes in this hobby the atoms line up and some times they don't in a system .. What many want to be is angry at, are the manufactures for making such a beautiful machined block in the middle and connectors that are anodized so well.. AND covering a basic cheap IC or speaker wire.. and charging $$$$ for lies..Not all are snake oil, as like you and I as well as others we care to much about the sound and this hobby .. That being said Synergy comes back to play..


FOR the record I don't have Esoteric cables in my system as I find better areas of improvement if you synergize a system .. Mine is a FULLY BALLANCED system and Balanced cables become less concerning as signals are separate ..

 

[RCHeliGuy]

FOR the record I don't have Esoteric cables in my system as I find better areas of improvement if you synergize a system .. Mine is a FULLY BALANCED system and Balanced cables become less concerning as signals are separate ..

What I find interesting is at an audiophile who has carefully dialed in his home system to perfection has no idea how it sounds.

One guy looking to test amplifiers went to a guy's house who had painstakingly gotten his system just so. The tester set up a cheap amplifier powered it on but never connected it to the guys speakers. After listening to a few songs the guy started a tirade about how that amp sounded lean and anemic and just couldn't capture the essence of the music. The tester turned off the cheap amp and the music kept playing. The audiophile was stunned. He was trashing the system he had been painstakingly put together for years.

This is just one of many accounts that show how quickly people completely change their perceptions of how something sounds.

Personally I think my system sounds great and I'm perfectly happy with it the way it is. Knowing how easily fooled a brain is I haven't found the need to chase a rainbow. That doesn't prove or disprove anything. It is simply my rational for not playing musical chairs with my audio gear.

 

[Gordon Gray]

UNTILL YOU TRY THEM IN YOUR SYSTEM ,BLAKET STATEMENTS AND ADJECTIVES THAT BACK THEM ARE OPINIONS..

Chris,

You are wasting your time. That position is for those who have an open mind and are willing to question / challenge their personal biases with a dose of reality.

Mark is clearly one person who is unwilling to do that.

Gordon

PS: In Mark's defense, he is totally happy with the sound of his system and that's all that matters. His inability and / or unwillingness to consider an alternate viewpoint / perspective is consistent with those who ascribe to gross generalizations and "absolute" beliefs regarding a specific topic. Quite similar to folks who claim that their "religion" is one and only "true faith" and all others religious dogma is flawed in one way or another despite the fact there are many variations in the world.

Having said that, it's all good.

 

[C.A.P]

Simple fact ! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement_theory

 

[RCHeliGuy]

Simple fact ! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement_theory

That is the absolute truth.

Between Cognitive Dissonance and this, people are likely to continue to believe whatever they started out believing.

In FACT it has been proven that people dig their heals in deeper during a discussion like this and almost always end up believing what they started out believing even more absolutely.

Ironically most people will use the idea of Cognitive Dissonance and Reinforcement theory against others while tending to believe they are much more objective than they are.

 

[RCHeliGuy]

Chris,

You are wasting your time. That position is for those who have an open mind and are willing to question / challenge their personal biases with a dose of reality.

Mark is clearly one person who is unwilling to do that.

Gordon

You seem to forget that it can almost be guaranteed that I will never hear a difference because I don't believe a difference exists.

Meanwhile someone who believes a set of cables makes a difference will almost be guaranteed to hear a difference.

 

[Gordon Gray]

You seem to forget that it can almost be guaranteed that I will never hear a difference because I don't believe a difference exists.

Seems like you are "bending" a bit in you absolutism. That's a good thing.

How one can "disconnect" what they hear, in spite of their preconceptions, versus what they "should" hear (or in your case, not hear) is beyond my comprehension.

But from a reality based perspective, you will never know until you try.

 

[Bernard]

Meanwhile someone who believes a set of cables makes a difference will almost be guaranteed to hear a difference.

How would you explain someone asking what you had changed (just by the sound) when they did not know you had made a change? I was once casually listening to music with trial cables when my wife stopped for a second and asked the question.

BTW, the last time I asked that question on another cable thread on his forum, I got derision in response from a guy who did not believe cables made a difference, and who made it a point to state how many years he had worked at Bell Labs, and all the test gear he had used to disprove differences.

 

[amey01]

Power cords take power from "50 cent per foot ROMEX" in the wall and carry it to the electronics.

.............and carry it to "50 cent per foot Romex".......the power cables inside amplifiers (and other equipment) is rarely anything special. I've never seen an amplifier with Nordost Valhalla inside it.