BACCH4mac is one of the main purchases I'll be making in the fairly near future. I've only heard fantastic things about it.
Best speaker cable for CLS?
- Thread starter raanan
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Yeah, I agree with your statement. I'd spend that cash on the BAACCH4mac rather than cables. I got lucky when I bought my Prodigy speakers at auction because they came with some pricy cables that I paid nothing extra for. I've never tried any new cables because they sound good to me.
jimbill
Well-known member
My Audiophile version (with head tracking) finally comes in on the 26th. Of course we're leaving for Europe the next day...
I got to hear it last week on a Youtuber's system, Audiophile Junkie. Look up some of his videos. He got so much out of it he became a dealer.
He didn't play any of the binaural tracks because he didn't want to ruin the fun when I get to set up my own system. He did play Pink Floyd "Grantchester Meadows". Bird sounds were encompassing from all directions. Insects flew close to my ears, not to just the side of me.
I got to hear it last week on a Youtuber's system, Audiophile Junkie. Look up some of his videos. He got so much out of it he became a dealer.
He didn't play any of the binaural tracks because he didn't want to ruin the fun when I get to set up my own system. He did play Pink Floyd "Grantchester Meadows". Bird sounds were encompassing from all directions. Insects flew close to my ears, not to just the side of me.
And that's just on stereo speakers, no surround? 2 speakers. Impressive.
Low to very low capacitance cables. I use Nordost Blue Heaven speaker cable. Recommend by expert in this field Roberto.
Russr
Well-known member
I use $2.00/foot 10 gauge OFC wire from wherever I can get it. Without getting into the religion of $10,000 cables, I still can't hear the difference... and I CAN STILL hear those silly "teen ringtones" that are supposedly above the detectable frequency of my aging ears... go figure...
I'll just drop this in here...
https://trackingangle.com/equipment/iconoclast-series-2-audio-cables
Edit: To balance that out a bit, they do offer much less expensive products as well, though certainly not as cheap as 12 gauge zip wire. AND I'll add: if you can't hear a difference in your own system, there's not a single reason to spend the money!
https://trackingangle.com/equipment/iconoclast-series-2-audio-cables
Edit: To balance that out a bit, they do offer much less expensive products as well, though certainly not as cheap as 12 gauge zip wire. AND I'll add: if you can't hear a difference in your own system, there's not a single reason to spend the money!
Tmort
Well-known member
I went to the Nordost flat wire at a very modest cost and it certainly made a difference over 12 ga OFC wire.
I’ve been researching speaker cables recently, and I’m finding interesting specs on some cables that are very reasonably priced, two in particular. One new Nordost super flatline speaker cable. And two pre owned Tara Labs RSC reference 2 speaker cable. I’ve been looking at cables with low inductance and low capacitance and bot of these fall into those parameters. I purchased a pair of the super flatlines new on audiogon to use on my second amp/speaker set up (Rogue audio stereo 100 amp, Geddes Abbey 12A speakers) that are run thru the rest of my system. Well the super flatlines sound amazing thru that combo and they were under $300 new.
Currently I have Cardas Clear Reflection speaker cables on my main amp/speakers Krell KSA 100 MKII/Odysseys and am very satisfied with the sound. But I keep wondering what the low capacitance/low inductance cables would sound like in comparison. So yep I just can’t resist, I have a pre owned pair of the Tara Labs on the way and I’m going to try the super flatlines on the main set up too. What do some of you think the results will be, and/or has anybody tried either of these cables or similar lower priced cables like these with those type specs on your Logans?
Update: I put the super flatline speaker cables on the Krell/Logan set up. And they did not sound anywhere near as good as the Cardas Clear Reflections do. So those super flatlines must just be a perfect match for that Rogue amp and Geddes speakers and that’s where they’ll stay. They were bright and very thin sounding on the Krell/Logan combo, quite the difference.
I keep CLSiiz because the panel size is pretty large. It is a fast speaker and can be a bit lean starting around 100Hz and lower. With the speed comes a feeling of detail. I recommend used or new Nordost. If you are on a budget, you can try Aliexpress knock offs, then go the for the real Nordost later on when you have more to spend.. Nordost is very fast.
This is my favorite knock off and I have tried many. https://tinyurl.com/Nordost-clone-RM-Digital
I would recommend real Nordost starting at Valhalla 1 or newer. Try this vendor.
https://www.martinloganowners.com/t...t-speakers-dollar-for-dollar-ever-made.19863/If you are lucky to have decent power, your power cords will be next to play with.
This is my favorite knock off and I have tried many. https://tinyurl.com/Nordost-clone-RM-Digital
I would recommend real Nordost starting at Valhalla 1 or newer. Try this vendor.
https://www.martinloganowners.com/t...t-speakers-dollar-for-dollar-ever-made.19863/If you are lucky to have decent power, your power cords will be next to play with.
Just to throw a wrench in this cable discussion with CLS, I have used various Tara Labs cables with good results with my CLSiiZ and (bi-wire) Sequel ii's.. The one cable I settled on for both pairs and I am sure I am going to get some static are somewhat unconventional. All cables add, more or less, some "flavor" to the sound. I ended it up with using Duelund 12ga single cable. They are purchased as a single cable so you would need four of them of a pair of speakers. I believe they are based on the Westinghouse designed cables of the 1950's. Here, Cabling :: duelundaudio.com, is a short discussion on what they are and here is where I got them, Search: 468 results found for "duelund*". They are not expensive in comparison to most boutique cables. This place was great to work with and delivered the product in about a week.
Again, this is my opinion and I found these to be more open and have more air around the instruments than the more expensive Tara Labs I had. Of course everyone is different in their interpretation.
I took a chance and for me the results were pleasing and worth the minimal expense. BTW, I sold my pair of Tara Labs I was using for my CLS's for about $900 and these are considerable less!
As always just listen and enjoy
Jeff
Again, this is my opinion and I found these to be more open and have more air around the instruments than the more expensive Tara Labs I had. Of course everyone is different in their interpretation.
I took a chance and for me the results were pleasing and worth the minimal expense. BTW, I sold my pair of Tara Labs I was using for my CLS's for about $900 and these are considerable less!
As always just listen and enjoy
Jeff
Just to throw a wrench in this cable discussion with CLS, I have used various Tara Labs cables with good results with my CLSiiZ and (bi-wire) Sequel ii's.. The one cable I settled on for both pairs and I am sure I am going to get some static are somewhat unconventional. All cables add, more or less, some "flavor" to the sound. I ended it up with using Duelund 12ga single cable. They are purchased as a single cable so you would need four of them of a pair of speakers. I believe they are based on the Westinghouse designed cables of the 1950's. Here, Cabling :: duelundaudio.com, is a short discussion on what they are and here is where I got them, Search: 468 results found for "duelund*". They are not expensive in comparison to most boutique cables. This place was great to work with and delivered the product in about a week.
Again, this is my opinion and I found these to be more open and have more air around the instruments than the more expensive Tara Labs I had. Of course everyone is different in their interpretation.
I took a chance and for me the results were pleasing and worth the minimal expense. BTW, I sold my pair of Tara Labs I was using for my CLS's for about $900 and these are considerable less!
As always just listen and enjoy
Jeff
Jeff a lot of what you just said is what I am also finding to be the case. The dollar value does not always correlate to the end result. Sometimes it does but not always, I myself will continue trying different speaker cables to hear the differences. One thing I’m finding out is that a LOT of the high priced cable manufacturers do not want to supply or make public the specs (inductance, capacitance, resistance) on their cables and that includes th cables I use now Cardas. This really makes me wonder about things. I will be looking into the Duelund cables for sure thanks for commenting!
I should know better than to jump in on a speaker cable discussion, but I guess not...
Roger Sanders got me started building ESLs and his opinions carry some weight with me.
Here's a link to Roger's white paper on speaker cables for ESLs:
http://www.sanderssoundsystems.com/technical-white-papers/54-cables-white-paper
And this is the specific cable Roger used in the custom ESL cables he marketed:
MOGAMI® - W3082 Superflexible Studio Speaker Cables
I used these same Mogami cables on my old perf-metal ESLs, and they sounded great.
Later, I became intrigued with cross-connected coaxial speaker cables. Here's a quote by the cable's designer, Jon Risch:
“Cross-connection is used to reduce the inductance to an absolute minimum. Merely paralleling the center wire and shield would create two separated different polarity composite conductors with an inductance much higher than the cross-connected pair.”
Here's link to my build page with photos for my DIY Jon Risch cables: Cross-Connected Coax Speaker Cables
These Teflon jacketed coax cables are pricey, each speaker cable uses two of them, and they are very stiff/inflexible, but they do sound wonderful.
After moving my system to a different room I needed longer cables, and I didn't want to spend so much for Teflon jacketed cross-connected cables, so I used much cheaper 12-2 Blue Jeans cable. Guess what: They sound wonderful too.
All of my DIY cables had similar resistance but different ratios of inductance/capacitance, so it follows that there would be measurable differences, especially in the ultrasonic region, resulting from their interaction with the ESL's transformers. However, I wasn't equipped to make those measurements.
I suspect the ultra-low inductance Mogami cables, and the low-inducance Jon Risch cables may have a beneficial effect on impedance (i.e. damping the ultrasonic response peak; thereby mitigating its coincident impedance minimum), compared to conventional 2-wire cables-- but I didn't make any measurements to confirm that. This alone would tip the scales in favor of the Mogami or Jon Risch cables, even though I can't say they sounded any better than the 12-2 Blue Jeans cables.
Perhaps if I had a setup to readily switch between cables for A/B comparisons, I might have been able detect audible differences, but I didn't, and I must say they all sounded wonderful.
I concluded that the cables I've used made no significant difference in my listening pleasure. And I'm guessing most cables of similar gauge would sound as good feeding my wire-stator ESLs.
It was fun building those DIY cables, and the experience convinced me that it's better to spend the big bucks on speakers and electronics and then spend whatever you like on cables.
Roger Sanders got me started building ESLs and his opinions carry some weight with me.
Here's a link to Roger's white paper on speaker cables for ESLs:
http://www.sanderssoundsystems.com/technical-white-papers/54-cables-white-paper
And this is the specific cable Roger used in the custom ESL cables he marketed:
MOGAMI® - W3082 Superflexible Studio Speaker Cables
I used these same Mogami cables on my old perf-metal ESLs, and they sounded great.
Later, I became intrigued with cross-connected coaxial speaker cables. Here's a quote by the cable's designer, Jon Risch:
“Cross-connection is used to reduce the inductance to an absolute minimum. Merely paralleling the center wire and shield would create two separated different polarity composite conductors with an inductance much higher than the cross-connected pair.”
Here's link to my build page with photos for my DIY Jon Risch cables: Cross-Connected Coax Speaker Cables
These Teflon jacketed coax cables are pricey, each speaker cable uses two of them, and they are very stiff/inflexible, but they do sound wonderful.
After moving my system to a different room I needed longer cables, and I didn't want to spend so much for Teflon jacketed cross-connected cables, so I used much cheaper 12-2 Blue Jeans cable. Guess what: They sound wonderful too.
All of my DIY cables had similar resistance but different ratios of inductance/capacitance, so it follows that there would be measurable differences, especially in the ultrasonic region, resulting from their interaction with the ESL's transformers. However, I wasn't equipped to make those measurements.
I suspect the ultra-low inductance Mogami cables, and the low-inducance Jon Risch cables may have a beneficial effect on impedance (i.e. damping the ultrasonic response peak; thereby mitigating its coincident impedance minimum), compared to conventional 2-wire cables-- but I didn't make any measurements to confirm that. This alone would tip the scales in favor of the Mogami or Jon Risch cables, even though I can't say they sounded any better than the 12-2 Blue Jeans cables.
Perhaps if I had a setup to readily switch between cables for A/B comparisons, I might have been able detect audible differences, but I didn't, and I must say they all sounded wonderful.
I concluded that the cables I've used made no significant difference in my listening pleasure. And I'm guessing most cables of similar gauge would sound as good feeding my wire-stator ESLs.
It was fun building those DIY cables, and the experience convinced me that it's better to spend the big bucks on speakers and electronics and then spend whatever you like on cables.
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If you do decided to try some Duelund I would be curious of what you think. I am happy with mine and was tired chasing the holy grail. When I moved 6 months ago and retired to the mid-west, I ordered some for my Sequel ii's as well. So far no problems.
Jeff
Jeff, Holly Molly, good to see a post from you !! Hope all is well, retired to the mid-west, very nice, I'm on my third year of retirement as well !
Looks like a bunch of us retired folks here, me too also midwest (Michigan). And Jazzman I built a pair of the cross connected coax cables I’m impressed with those as well but I have yet to try them on the Krell amp. I’ll update as to what I end up with. Back to checking out the Duelund cables, interesting reading so far.
Just to throw a wrench in this cable discussion with CLS, I have used various Tara Labs cables with good results with my CLSiiZ and (bi-wire) Sequel ii's.. The one cable I settled on for both pairs and I am sure I am going to get some static are somewhat unconventional. All cables add, more or less, some "flavor" to the sound. I ended it up with using Duelund 12ga single cable. They are purchased as a single cable so you would need four of them of a pair of speakers. I believe they are based on the Westinghouse designed cables of the 1950's. Here, Cabling :: duelundaudio.com, is a short discussion on what they are and here is where I got them, Search: 468 results found for "duelund*". They are not expensive in comparison to most boutique cables. This place was great to work with and delivered the product in about a week.
Again, this is my opinion and I found these to be more open and have more air around the instruments than the more expensive Tara Labs I had. Of course everyone is different in their interpretation.
I took a chance and for me the results were pleasing and worth the minimal expense. BTW, I sold my pair of Tara Labs I was using for my CLS's for about $900 and these are considerable less!
As always just listen and enjoy
Jeff
Jeff is this the cable you used?
https://partsconnexion.com/products...opper-hookup-wire?_pos=3&_sid=92091a765&_ss=r
DanR, Yes I believe those are the cables. I also have some XLR interconnects as well.
I waited to the maximum year for me to retire, 70, which was this year and retired to Indiana.
Jeff
Thanks Jeff, did you terminate the wires yourself? And enjoy your retirement we’ve all earned it.
