Best speaker cable for CLS?

[Jeff Zaret]

Originally I was just doing bare wire but I felt a bit nervous. It works fine but I felt the exposure to the elements would eventually be of some concern. I am using gold spades now and not that expensive and they may actually be copper for all I know.
Yes retirement was well earned with over 25 years dealing with the DOD!

 

[DanR]

Cool thanks Jeff, I'm going to try them, how can I not for that price. And the retirement always is earned, 23 years on the Fire Dept here.

 

[Jeff Zaret]

Cool thanks Jeff, I'm going to try them, how can I not for that price. And the retirement always is earned, 23 years on the Fire Dept here.

Dan, Thanks for your service in the Fire Dept. and retirement is good(?)..................................so far. I still have expensive taste but I cannot really afford a lot but I am still very happy with my setup. I am not sure if I posted it in awhile but I am happy so that is all that matters.

 

[Jeff Zaret]

Dan, Thanks for your service in the Fire Dept. and retirement is good(?)..................................so far. I still have expensive taste but I cannot really afford a lot but I am still very happy with my setup. I am not sure if I posted it in awhile but I am happy so that is all that matters.

I just double checked my cables on the CLSiiz and the Sequelii's and the Duelunds are NOT terminated with spades the are bare wire. The confusion is on the CLS's I also run the subs with another set of cables which are using spades from the CLS's as well. How is that for confusion?
If you want to give me call to discuss it you can. This is my email [email protected] so we can exchange numbers if you want.

 

[Robert Perry]

I should know better than to jump in on a speaker cable discussion, but I guess not...

Roger Sanders got me started building ESLs and his opinions carry some weight with me.
Here's a link to Roger's white paper on speaker cables for ESLs:
http://www.sanderssoundsystems.com/technical-white-papers/54-cables-white-paper
And this is the specific cable Roger used in the custom ESL cables he marketed:
MOGAMI® - W3082 Superflexible Studio Speaker Cables

I used these same Mogami cables on my old perf-metal ESLs, and they sounded great.

Later, I became intrigued with cross-connected coaxial speaker cables. Here's a quote by the cable's designer, Jon Risch:
“Cross-connection is used to reduce the inductance to an absolute minimum. Merely paralleling the center wire and shield would create two separated different polarity composite conductors with an inductance much higher than the cross-connected pair.”

Here's link to my build page with photos for my DIY Jon Risch cables: Cross-Connected Coax Speaker Cables
These Teflon jacketed coax cables are pricey, each speaker cable uses two of them, and they are very stiff/inflexible, but they do sound wonderful.

After moving my system to a different room I needed longer cables, and I didn't want to spend so much for Teflon jacketed cross-connected cables, so I used much cheaper 12-2 Blue Jeans cable. Guess what: They sound wonderful too.

All of my DIY cables had similar resistance but different ratios of inductance/capacitance, so it follows that there would be measurable differences, especially in the ultrasonic region, resulting from their interaction with the ESL's transformers. However, I wasn't equipped to make those measurements.

I suspect the ultra-low inductance Mogami cables, and the low-inducance Jon Risch cables may have a beneficial effect on impedance (i.e. damping the ultrasonic response peak; thereby mitigating its coincident impedance minimum), compared to conventional 2-wire cables-- but I didn't make any measurements to confirm that. This alone would tip the scales in favor of the Mogami or Jon Risch cables, even though I can't say they sounded any better than the 12-2 Blue Jeans cables.

Perhaps if I had a setup to readily switch between cables for A/B comparisons, I might have been able detect audible differences, but I didn't, and I must say they all sounded wonderful.

I concluded that the cables I've used made no significant difference in my listening pleasure. And I'm guessing most cables of similar gauge would sound as good feeding my wire-stator ESLs.

It was fun building those DIY cables, and the experience convinced me that it's better to spend the big bucks on speakers and electronics and then spend whatever you like on cables.

I saw this post and thought I would make the cross connected coax cables. A little challenging to put together. but not too bad. Generally, I'm a skeptic on cables making some huge difference in sound, but I have to say, when put these cables in place, I was amazed at the improvement. I was running just cheap speaker cable before. Though at the same time, I got my Mark Levinson ML-9 back in the rack and reorged a lot so who knows which did what. But my system sounds amazing. Got a couple of issues which I'll post about later!

 

[rower30]

Maybe do the time to learn how cable's REALLY work. I know, facts about cables is heresay except it isn't. The physics applies to ALL cables, but the test subjects are a specific design and yes, nothing escapes the physics. What was the designer really doing for you. Do they even know? What actually was calculated or measured? How did they do it and why? We demand that for our electronics but never consider cables. Design matters, and yes, you can factually measure it.

https://iconoclastcable.com/story/design.htm

https://iconoclastcable.com/techpapers/index.htm

 

[john65b]

FLAME GUARD ON

I make DIY interconnects using cheap CAT5 wire and RCA connectors off Amazon (join all solid color and stripped wires). I have also used CAT5 for speaker wire. Its was designed for optimum signal transmission.

If you want to get into the weeds, the electrons supposedly flow on the outer edges of conductors, so surface area may matter, and those ribbon type speaker wires and interconnects theoretically have merit, but still splitting hairs if you ask me.

Buy a simple LCR meter, and aim for interconnects and speaker wire that have the lowest inductance, resistance, and capacitance and no longer than needed.

For those who prefer cables because they are more or less brighter, or more or less bass, why not save money and just use cheap CAT5 cables and use Tone preamp controls or Equalize how you prefer? That's essentially all you are doing with levels of LCR in cables.

My 2 cents - interconnect cables matter most between Turntable and phono stage - the most "delicate" signal in audio (millivolts), and low LCR keeps signal pristine.

I was recently out of CAT5 and needed interconnects, so I tested all I had and the cheap interconnects that had MOGAMI printed on wire had the lowest LCR.

As far as speaker wire, if anyone has ever re-wired Magnepan Bass panels, you would be surprised to see all that bass wattage power (these are inefficient at 84db/watt) running thru very long, tiny 25 gauge (.45mm - .018 inches) Aluminum wire, and Aluminum is less than 2/3 the conductivity of copper.

And don't get me started on power cables.

FLAME GUARD OFF

 

[ttocs]

After trying many cables, some which cost thousands for two meters in length, I am using common 14AWG, 4-conductor speaker cable, terminated with opposed pairs combined for an effective 11AWG, all based upon LCR measurements to achieve the tonal balance I wanted. I tried many possible permutations of single, dual, quad conductor, even dual quad conductor cables, and found that what I concluded I decided to use was the arrangement best for the sound I wanted to hear.

In other words, speaker wires are a tone control.

 

[Jeff Zaret]

After trying many cables, some which cost thousands for two meters in length, I am using common 14AWG, 4-conductor speaker cable, terminated with opposed pairs combined for an effective 11AWG, all based upon LCR measurements to achieve the tonal balance I wanted. I tried many possible permutations of single, dual, quad conductor, even dual quad conductor cables, and found that what I concluded I decided to use was the arrangement best for the sound I wanted to hear.

In other words, speaker wires are a tone control.

I had an expensive pair of Tara Labs that I used for my CLSiiZ and they were good. After a lot of research and a bit of faith, I tired using Duelund single wire cables, you need four strands to two speakers. If memory is not failing too bad I believe they were 12 gauge. To my amazement, they were more open and appeared a bit more transparent than what I had. Of course it is my opinion. I stayed with them and about a year later ordered some for my rear speakers as well, which are Sequel ii.
They are not expensive at all and worth a try for anyone wanting to try a change for not too much money.

Happy Holidays to all
Jeff

 

[Robert D]

I had an expensive pair of Tara Labs that I used for my CLSiiZ and they were good. After a lot of research and a bit of faith, I tired using Duelund single wire cables, you need four strands to two speakers. If memory is not failing too bad I believe they were 12 gauge. To my amazement, they were more open and appeared a bit more transparent than what I had. Of course it is my opinion. I stayed with them and about a year later ordered some for my rear speakers as well, which are Sequel ii.
They are not expensive at all and worth a try for anyone wanting to try a change for not too much money.

Happy Holidays to all
Jeff

Im using some nice Tara Labs too, on my Prodigy speakers. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Jeff Zaret]

Im using some nice Tara Labs too, on my Prodigy speakers. Thanks for the advice.

Robert, I think it was around $200 for the Duelunds. You can get there here and they ship quickly. https://partsconnexion.com/search.php?search_query=Duelund cable
Don't get wrong, Tara Labs are one of the great cables out there but they too go to place where I cannot afford them. I believe at that level, it is really the land of diminishing returns but to each his own.
Have a great holiday!