Hey Gordon, yup, thats exactly my experience as well. I changed Speaker and Power cables once together and heard details in songs I didnt even know existed until then, Particularly backround noises such as breathing, arm movements etc and I am very familiar with the songs in my system. Changed the cables back and did not hear these things. To me this set of cables gave me more depth into the actual recording, but I guess it was all in my head. hehehe
Upgraded Power Cables
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Bernard
Well-known member
Get yourself to a shrink, Pete! You're hearing things again.
I have been reading the discussion and holding myself back from responding, but here's food for thought: on one occasion I changed a pair of interconnects without my wife's knowledge; they were on loan from the dealer, so I didn't have to get permission from on high to buy them. I was listening to music when my wife went by, stuck her head into the room, and asked me, "What did you change?". She's no audiofool (as I am), but knows the sound of my system. It took her a casual pass by the room to hear the change; no double-blind head-in-a-vise stuff required. What did she hear if all cables sound the same? The last time I posted this anecdote, the newbie telling us we were all barking up the wrong tree responded, "As if anyone believes that". Okay, I expect to get responses along the lines that the contacts were cleaned by the removal/insertions of the cables, hence the difference in sound.
I'm still holding myself back
beek
Well-known member
Had the same experience with waveguides/traps as she walked in the room I asked her to scream at me.
She did & also noticed the difference too...............
She did & also noticed the difference too...............
deilenberger
Active member
Ah.. let yourself go.. it looks like this is about the only active discussion on MLO..I'm still holding myself back
Had you considered that your old cable might be defective? It happens.. a bad solder joint, frayed insulation between the conductor and shield..
Or that your wife is just busting on'ya?
BTW - swapped in a new amp (new to me.. used is the operative term) - Adcom 555SE. Lotsa watts. SWMBO stopped and asked "Does it sound any different?" - well, actually no, but I haven't gotten to the track where I saw (and heard) the overload lights on the Marantz 140 trigger. The amp does have a 12G power cord from the factory, which should be adequate for it's rated max AC power input - 1,000 Watts. It does seem to work just fine through my garden cable wiring to the speakers.
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Bernard
Well-known member
And it's a bad solder joint(s) every time I swap cables (speaker, interconnect, digital)? BTW sometimes I do NOT hear differences between cables, even if I'm expecting to. But I often do hear differences.
And she would coincidentally do that only when I changed cables? It would be a cold day in Hades before she did thatOr that your wife is just busting on'ya?
And what does your audiologist say about your hearing?
. This is a factor no one seems to consider.There was a statement in TAS a while ago that makes sense (I'm paraphrasing): "If two things measure the same but sound different, perhaps you are measuring the wrong thing".
Science has been advanced by people who refused to believe that we know everything there is to know about any subject (including audio).
deilenberger
Active member
You hear differences in digital cables? Really? How does that work? Is one is dropping bits somewhere (I can imagine a big pile of them building up - that might be annoying having to clean up..) Curious minds wanna know..
A really perverse wife might - not that I'd know anything about that..And she would coincidentally do that only when I changed cables? It would be a cold day in Hades before she did that
Quite possibly. Is there a test for something like power source cables I haven't heard of? Inquiring mind again at work..And what does your audiologist say about your hearing?
There was a statement in TAS a while ago that makes sense (I'm paraphrasing): "If two things measure the same but sound different, perhaps you are measuring the wrong thing".
And green magic markers - no one has given their position on that.. do we know everything about that?
I'm just guessing no one in this discussion besides me has gone to engineering school and/or worked as an electrical engineer? I'm just curious on what backgrounds are represented.. (asked in the very nicest way - I'm really curious.. really..) Engineers do tend to be skeptical about things that can't be measured. It's sorta bred into us - data is what we understand.
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Deil,
Please stop the assault and the aggressive behavior.
We understand where you are on this issue.
I don't care if you have gone to engineering school and worked as an electrical engineer.
This is all about subjective (using your ears) versus objective (things that can be measured).
There is no right answer. This hobby exists because it is founded on personal opinion and a passion for listening / connecting with music.
You need to respect and acknowledge that basic fact.
GG
PS: There's alot more to life, and the ability to enjoy our experiences, other than data.
Please stop the assault and the aggressive behavior.
We understand where you are on this issue.
I don't care if you have gone to engineering school and worked as an electrical engineer.
This is all about subjective (using your ears) versus objective (things that can be measured).
There is no right answer. This hobby exists because it is founded on personal opinion and a passion for listening / connecting with music.
You need to respect and acknowledge that basic fact.
GG
PS: There's alot more to life, and the ability to enjoy our experiences, other than data.
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Bernard
Well-known member
I'm an Electrical Engineer, but I have an open mind and do not resort to derision or sarcasm when people report phenomena that cannot be measured. Instead I go out and investigate for myself, i.e. I listen instead of pontificating. I sometimes hear differences and sometimes I don't. If you could do the same I'd continue this discussion, but it's futile, so this will be my last post in this thread.
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Bernard,
My sense is that we have the proverbial troll who wants to pick a fight.
Best,
Gordon
My sense is that we have the proverbial troll who wants to pick a fight.
Best,
Gordon
deilenberger
Active member
If "skeptic" = "troll" - then yes. But so far no one has given any actual data besides "I heard the difference" (so it must be true..) I remain skeptical. If someone wants to come over to my house with some wonderful speaker cables and we do a blind A-B, same music, same speakers, same equipment, I'd be delighted to host (I'll even provide the beer..)
I agree - the discussion is useless.. you can't discuss facts, data and what these mean with true-believers. It's very similar to religion.. got to take a bunch of it on faith. I give up.. (as I did on the green magic marker arguments on Usenet decades ago..)
Later..
(If anyone wants to discuss what CDs sound great on ML's - I'm all ears - but we might want to start a new thread for that..)
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beek
Well-known member
Like I said in another post its like describeing color or smell just not gonna agree...
beek
Well-known member
I'm an Electrical Engineer, but I have an open mind and do not resort to derision or sarcasm when people report phenomena that cannot be measured. Instead I go out and investigate for myself, i.e. I listen instead of pontificating. I sometimes hear differences and sometimes I don't. If you could do the same I'd continue this discussion, but it's futile, so this will be my last post in this thread
Amen Bernard,
this Op should put it to bed already
Amen Bernard,
this Op should put it to bed already
I am totally with Bernard on this issue. I have been trying since 1986 to sneak new toys into my system but my wife hears the change each and every time-from another room! Just last week I tried to sneak in a new power cord for the mac mini...it took her all of 15 seconds to notice a difference. In fact she noticed a change when I switched AC polarity on the mac!
I just installed the special CLX power cords on my Odysseys, and you can easily hear the difference in the upper treble with hi-hats and cymbals. It's small, but it immediately jumped at me, thus I perceive it as audible. Could be the result of lower noise or simply expectation bias, or perhaps the stock ones are just crap. I wouldn't spend more than what I did for 5W worth of power consumption. To detractors, I would say try the CLX cables w/o fear, they are cheap.
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projectormovielover
Well-known member
The cable argument will never die bud. We dont have sophisticated enough equipment to know why there are differences in cables and this allows for manufacturers to take us for a ride to the bank. Some cables are bullsh... and some sound great. The only way to not be had is to find a brand that is reasonably priced that has synergy in your system
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Hi Spectral,
Totally valid observation IMHO.
I recently started a thread in the DIY section regarding my experience installing the DH Labs Power Plus power cord wire, with budget Wattgate terminations, on my preamp and CDP.
For $70 per power cord (5.5' length / each additional foot will cost $7) seems to me to be a great bargain for minimal money.
GG
Hi Gordon,
so a word of caution - the budget Wattgates are marginally better than run-of-the-mill; I have worked with them before, and would strongly advise the 350s
Peter
projectormovielover
Well-known member
Your going to have to make up some of these for the gang
Do you have any pics of the completed cables to post there Gordon ?
So here's a measurable difference between the stock power cords and the CLX ones I got... the CLX are shielded, the stock are not. Considering that they are running next to the speaker cables, that perhaps is reason enough to explain the difference... Case closed from my perspective.
beek
Well-known member
Completely agree
