Ticking CLS II - lets make it sing!

[Brad225]

Yes, I saw it.

I need to reglue tape to stator, it solve my problem.



If you look at the photos of @Don Camillo broken tape, you will see that this tape is glue to the stator. The same at my "good" side.

The tape is on the Mylar not the sator. If it is stuck to the sator then it has totally come loose from the Mylar film

 

[Martynka]

Water was full of dirt. Before cleaning stators were grey and foil was black. Now you see everything thought the panel.

 

[Martynka]

If it is stuck to the sator then it has totally come loose from the Mylar film

It's not possible. On good panel side tape is firmly attached and the entire surface on the stator. The same you can see on @Don Camillo tape photo.

I have CLS I. I think that on CSL IIa I saw sqere tape on film but not one long stripe on rear stator almost from down to top.

 

[Don Camillo]

Tuning tape on side without buzzing :

Tape from place where I here resonance:

Yeah that indeed is a big obvious difference!

So I guess you can glue the tuning tape back to the stator and then you are done right?

 

[Martynka]

Yeah that indeed is a big obvious difference!

In my thread:

CLS panel repair - buzzing resonance sound.

will be video with first repaired. Wait a minut.

And I think, I have proposition to solve your problem too.

 

[Brandon Hartwick]

If you plan on pulling the stators apart I read somewhere that to prevent tearing the mylar you can stick a cotton swap soaked in rubbing alcohol into the gap to soften the glue.

I haven't tried this but apparently it works.

 

[Martynka]

I haven't tried this but apparently it works.

I solve completly my problem with glue without separate stators. Now I listen music, loud and dynamic without distorsions. But.... if I want to separate it I put it to a shower and use water and clean one more time. After cleaning my stators were almost separate, I need to use large office clip to hold it in one piece.

 

[Brandon Hartwick]

I solve completly my problem with glue without separate stators. Now I listen music, loud and dynamic without distorsions. But.... if I want to separate it I put it to a shower and use water and clean one more time. After cleaning my stators were almost separate, I need to use large office clip to hold it in one piece.

I used zip ties to tightly clamp both stators together before showering my panels. This wired well for me. There's pics in the shower cleaning thread of how I did it. A big office clip is a good idea though

 

[Martynka]

A big office clip is a good idea though

Big office clips use Reromanus after refoil. You can see it here,



I use the same

 

[Don Camillo]

Thats good news man!
And indeed a smart and cheap solution....

Ah now I see how they remove the panels... that looks pretty easy...

 

[Martynka]

that looks pretty easy...

Yes, it's easy. When I try tp find what buzzing in panel removed it few times. First time I was afraid but next was the same fast like on video.

My suggestion for you:

First, mark where the old tape was. Take a vacuum cleaner and clean as much as possible. Then take something thin but not sharp at the end. On a stick, mark a length equal to the thickness of the panel. Wind the tape at this distance from the end of the stick many times so that more cannot be inserted by accident. Adjust the vacuum cleaner so that it does not attract the foil when you put it on the panel. Place the vacuum cleaner on the stator and make movements in the hole above it to clean it. Then, in the places marked with the tape, stick the tape on the outside.

Now I read that in my thread you came up with it yourself Yes, when a simple stick won't help, use the "hook". For this purpose, I use a dentist's tool with a ball on the end. Like these.

 

[Don Camillo]

Yes, it's easy. When I try tp find what buzzing in panel removed it few times. First time I was afraid but next was the same fast like on video.

My suggestion for you:

First, mark where the old tape was. Take a vacuum cleaner and clean as much as possible. Then take something thin but not sharp at the end. On a stick, mark a length equal to the thickness of the panel. Wind the tape at this distance from the end of the stick many times so that more cannot be inserted by accident. Adjust the vacuum cleaner so that it does not attract the foil when you put it on the panel. Place the vacuum cleaner on the stator and make movements in the hole above it to clean it. Then, in the places marked with the tape, stick the tape on the outside.

Now I read that in my thread you came up with it yourself Yes, when a simple stick won't help, use the "hook". For this purpose, I use a dentist's tool with a ball on the end. Like these.

View attachment 22728

Thanks! That is a good idea indeed!

I will try that. I am just curious about what to do to the holes.. maybe put something in there to fill the holes with sort of damping tape... But I dont know much about how an elektrostat works...
So I also will learn some of it more.

About speakers; yesterday I played with the Apogees and after tweaking it with cables, tubes and toe in and out... wowww it really sang!....

So the urge is gone at the moment. But meanwhile I will learn some more theory aboutthe ML's and try a solution...

Thanks and enjoy your CLS's!

 

[Martynka]

But I dont know much about how an elektrostat works...

 

[Don Camillo]

Thanks.. that makes sense.
Made me want to fix my speakers

I will try next week and share it..

 

[Martynka]

I'm with you with crossed fingers.

 

[Leporello]

About speakers; yesterday I played with the Apogees and after tweaking it with cables, tubes and toe in and out... wowww it really sang!....

The following is my own highly biased opinion, take it as you wish:

First, I admit my experience with Apogees was a long time ago, at an audio show, in a crowded room and not my choice of program material. But I think the CLS II's blow the Apogees out of the water. If you're listening to panels with diaphragms full of holes put together with scotch tape and paper clips, you may not know what they are capable of. My advice would be to sell the Apogees and put the money toward a pair of brand new, factory coated, tensioned and tuned panels. But that's me.

Also, thinking about your mysterious shutting down of ancillary equipment. You probably don't care about that at all now, but I'm still curious about it. (BTW that was the motivation for suggesting plugging in the equipment separate from the ESL bias supplies, if it wasn't clear). I'm recalling that the manual with my Acoustats (yes, I'm an ESL fancier from long ago) suggested mounting your speakers at least five feet from the turntable (the main program source for most people in those days) or it could cause feedback. An ESL is actually an electric dipole as well as an acoustic one, but whose lobes of maximum transmission are 90 degrees from the acoustic ones. An arcing ESL makes a great wide band transmitter, much like Heinrich Hertz' original one. So my guess is that RF interference was in fact the source of the phenomenon.

One more thing. You mention tweaking tubes. If you're talking about your ARC SP16, fine. But a classic tube power amp with output transformers is a sub-optimal match for both the CLS II's and the Apogees, due to low and variable impedance. I found that out from experience after building a pair of Latino/Tubes4HiFi M125 monoblocks. I had a blast building them, but was disappointed with the results: totally rolled off. You may have a better experience with amps with better output transformers e.g. ARC, Mac, VTL. And the more I think about it, the less sense it makes to step the signal down to low impedance/ high current in the amp, then back up to high impedance/high voltage in the speaker. As of now, and probably for a long time, I am happily driving my CLS II's with Parasound Halo JC-1 monoblocks.

 

[Don Camillo]

The following is my own highly biased opinion, take it as you wish:
....

Thanks for your input, your previous input was also valuable. So I appreciate it...!

Regarding the tube rolling, yes it was just for the ARC SP16.
Standard its pretty good, but with the right tubes in them and the rest of the system in good balance; wow.... then its really a great pre!.... I also have better caps inside. And now with the 50's tubes... wow amazing!

But for all system sets.... it will blow you away if it it is balanced and tuned the most possible to your liking and taste.

When everything you want and like (wether you know all those demands or not) is a match with the system in front of you then we love it. And even our mood at some degree play a role here as we all know.

That means I can set that same great CLS up and dont like it... same goes for the Apogee.

And tbh I heard both in pretty poor sounding systems at shows or at sellers at their homes. And I also heard them in good (well balanced!) systems.... with good equipment (set up right).

I heard around a thousand sets or so in the last 3 decades at shows, and the balancing part for me is the most important factor.

I heard > 300.000,- $ systems which sounded very good but also that were pretty dissapointing (and it wasnt our mood, more thought likewise).

But I also heard a 6000,- $ system where ppl were blown away by its musicallity... The total balance (and room) was very good.

The Apogee is more for 1 listener in the middle. When played on a great balanced set it can really perform very well. But its not perfect, as no speaker is....

I have the Apogee Stage, Caliper and Duetta and they werent expensive so I probably keep them as they wont sell for much either.

The CLS II (I think I have the A version) I will probably have it rebuild by a pro, when I am comfortable spending the money.

One thing about this hobby for me is to have it as good as possible with the smallest amount of money spend.

So at the moment I have an old Sumo Nine Plus. Its a 70 watt pure Class A power amp. And with a good pre its not bad... pretty good actually. Even with an old Quad pre it played better then my 5500,- € hybrid DK Design Reference Mk3 that I now use in a second system. Now with the modified SP16 I am happy with it but will probably buy a more powerfull amp next winter....

Some amps from the 80's and 90's are still really good, and affordable.

Yes indeed a tube power amp isnt the most ideal amp for ML or Apogees... But some you mentioned or a big CJ can be a beautiful match. (I like tubes..)

The JC1 of course has a massive power.. Thats very nice!

The reason for making my cd player stop could indeed be an interference issue...

Although yesterday I also heard some cd- ticks in my Caliper's....
So I think the laser of the Audio Note transport is going bad....

Its not the main reason of the CLS issue but maybe that made the CD stop...
For now we think the broken tape in the holes is the main reason.

I will try to fix it myself this summer, but if sound isnt optimal then I meanwhile try and listen to a good set.... and probably have it rebuild.

 

[Don Camillo]

I'm with you with crossed fingers.

Thanks

 

[Martynka]

I will try to fix it myself this summer

You have patience. I wouldn't have slept two nights and would have done it right away

 

[Don Camillo]

You have patience. I wouldn't have slept two nights and would have done it right away

yeah I noticed that!...

I whish I had the time and drive....

I have worked too much the last 5 years... so too tired unfortunately..... and so much to do....
Having your own business can be nice, but exhausting too.... Time to sell it....
And then!... yeah I am comfortable to buy a set that is expensive...
Maybe the CLX?...