New Member Seeking Opinions/Sanity Checks Regarding Sequel II to ESL15a Upgrade

[JonFo]

he ESL15 power cords came with US style 2 pin round plugs which won't fit the 3-slot oblong shaped UK wall sockets. So I just re-used the Sequel II power cables that I have had for decades. They are fitted with 3-amp fuses, I can't remove them as that would break the circuit and no power. I will change the very old fuses as recommended by the shop but neither of us believes this is the problem as plug fuses generally either work or don't, regardless of age.

Given that each ESL15 has a pair of powerful Class D amps in them, might there not be a problem with a 3A fuse limiting the current the amps are getting?

Try this: use the original US-spec power cords and purchase two physical US <--> UK power plug adapters.

 

[Russr]

Mayb someone can chime in on current/fuse requirements on the newer speakers, but the Sequels have no internal amplification, where the new behemoths do. I'm not sure the built-in fuses in the power cables you have are "good to go" with the new lit. Then again, 3A on 240V is a lot of power...

 

[Ken Mitchell]

Thanks for your continued suggestions and interest guys, I really appreciate it.

Tonight I swapped the speaker cables for some old Van der Huls that I found in the archives. The drop out issue remains.

Tomorrow I will change the fuses in the speaker power cables and I have also found a spare power cable (single) that will fit the ESL, so I will swap that if the fuse changes bring no remit.

I like the idea of using the US/UK adapters, I think I have some, just gotta find em....

 

[Ken Mitchell]

I have swapped speaker cables.
I have swapped speaker power cables.
The speaker with the dop outs, I tried the shipped power cord with a plug adaptor.
I have tried listening at much lower volume levels.

Unfortunately, the drop out issue remains.

Yesterday, I swapped the ESLs for some old Rega box speakers and listened for 70 mins, no drop outs.

Reconnected the ESLs and had 5 drops outs in 90 mins (all same speaker).

I either have a faulty ESL or a very specific incompatibility between my Krell and the speakers.

Any other thoughts out there folks?

 

[Robert D]

I have swapped speaker cables.
I have swapped speaker power cables.
The speaker with the dop outs, I tried the shipped power cord with a plug adaptor.
I have tried listening at much lower volume levels.

Unfortunately, the drop out issue remains.

Yesterday, I swapped the ESLs for some old Rega box speakers and listened for 70 mins, no drop outs.

Reconnected the ESLs and had 5 drops outs in 90 mins (all same speaker).

I either have a faulty ESL or a very specific incompatibility between my Krell and the speakers.

Any other thoughts out there folks?

It's got to be the speaker from what you say. These are brand new? I've had new equipment bad right out of the box myself, it happens. We built a new house in 08 with Carrier's top AC line called Infinity. It didn't work the first day I ran it! Bad compressor or coil, can't remember. Had a Marantz receiver with bad channels in it. Just bad luck I guess. I've had others as well.
Have you contacted Ron at ML yet, or the local dealer you bought them at? They'll be able to help.

 

[ttocs]

I either have a faulty ESL or a very specific incompatibility between my Krell and the speakers.
Any other thoughts out there folks?

Yes, swap the speaker amp trays.
The trays and are "relatively" easy to remove/replace.

With that said, I can't find any videos showing how this is done. But I do know that the feet need to be removed, then the "sockets" that the feet are screwed into. Beyond that, I don't know what to expect.

However, since I'm getting a new tv installed this week, and since this effort requires me to move the four subs and center speaker so the guys can swap the tv panels, I'm thinking I can be a guinea pig on your behalf and experience how this is done for myself.

The idea here is to nail down if the issue is with the stat panel or the electrics leading to the panel. My bet is on a loose connector, unless you tell us that the dropouts are rhythmic in some way, repeating at a regular interval, which indicates a different approach.

 

[Brandon Hartwick]

Sounds like something going to the panel is losing connection intermittently, try knocking on the panel and see if that causes the dropouts.

Even if the power cord was somehow faulty it wouldn't cause dropouts in the panel. You can run the speakers unplugged for several minutes.

Try another amp if you have one.

 

[Robert D]

Is it just the panel cutting in and out, or is the entire speaker going silent? It sounds like from your description that it is just the panel? If its just the panel and the woofers are playing without the panel then I would suspect maybe there is something wrong with the wiring harness/connector or where the wire is soldered onto the panel is lose?

 

[Ken Mitchell]

Thanks guys.

Unfortunately my only spare amp is faulty.

The entire speaker goes very quiet, woofer as well.

I have been in touch with the shop and they have been in touch with PMC (the Martin Logan UK distributor). PMC initials thoughts are a faulty board in the speaker amp tray. Likely that a new one will be shipped from Kansas in due course. I will probably be fitting it myself unless soldering is required in which case I ain't going anywhere near it.

ttocs - drop outs appear to be random, I have not noticed any regular intervals. I am very grateful for your offer of a guinea pigging, but I am expecting a documented procedure how to swap this board out. And I'll be happy to share that procedure here if folks are interested.

These are ex-dem speakers (look like new) and were less than half price, so whilst this issue is frustrating, it's a relatively small price to pay because the speakers sound incredible.

 

[ttocs]

PMC initials thoughts are a faulty board in the speaker amp tray. Likely that a new one will be shipped from Kansas in due course. I will probably be fitting it myself unless soldering is required in which case I ain't going anywhere near it.

No soldering needed. Just unplug some wires, then plug in the new ones.

Someone else around here swapped out an amp tray a year or two ago and reported it being pretty simple.

 

[Robert D]

No soldering needed. Just unplug some wires, then plug in the new ones.

Someone else around here swapped out an amp tray a year or two ago and reported it being pretty simple.

Yeah, that's like how they build their sub woofers too. If something goes wrong on the board you just take it out and plug in the new one.

 

[Ken Mitchell]

Quick update. I had a new amp tray delivered. Taking out the old one was pretty straight forward.

Disconnect speaker from power and amp.
Place on its side but elevated from the floor (I used one of the polystyrene shippers)
Place something to rest the tray on at the bottom of the speaker
Take off the glider feet, they just unscrew.
Undo the four bolts - need a half inch hex key for this.
Ease the tray out on to the rest.
Unplug two cables from the tray to the main speaker (I chose to unplug at the speaker end, I could have unplugged from the circuit board)
Unplug amp cable from circuit board
Tray is now free!

I connected the new tray but I could not get it to slot in to the speaker. On closer inspection, one corner of the new tray has really poorly finished metalwork which means it has a lip jutting out to about a quarter inch. I gave up and sent some photos to the shop. Put the old tray back in, largely without issue, you do have to be very careful not to crimp the grey amp cable though.

Disconnecting and reconnecting the old tray has not solved the drop out issue.

 

[Robert D]

Quick update. I had a new amp tray delivered. Taking out the old one was pretty straight forward.

Disconnect speaker from power and amp.
Place on its side but elevated from the floor (I used one of the polystyrene shippers)
Place something to rest the tray on at the bottom of the speaker
Take off the glider feet, they just unscrew.
Undo the four bolts - need a half inch hex key for this.
Ease the tray out on to the rest.
Unplug two cables from the tray to the main speaker (I chose to unplug at the speaker end, I could have unplugged from the circuit board)
Unplug amp cable from circuit board
Tray is now free!

I connected the new tray but I could not get it to slot in to the speaker. On closer inspection, one corner of the new tray has really poorly finished metalwork which means it has a lip jutting out to about a quarter inch. I gave up and sent some photos to the shop. Put the old tray back in, largely without issue, you do have to be very careful not to crimp the grey amp cable though.

Disconnecting and reconnecting the old tray has not solved the drop out issue.

So now you need to get the tray back to the shop and have them fix that projection? I guess you were unable to test put the new tray hardware?

 

[Ken Mitchell]

On my 2nd replacement amp tray. About 10 hours of listening done. No drop outs! Whoo Hoo!

Huge thanks to all here, who have helped with suggestions and valuble knowledge.

Also got the Arc calibration done, a very different sound coming from the speakers, much calmer but perhaps a lacking a little top end air. The Arc kit was a loaner but I have ordered a Gen 4 kit as I am going to be moving these beasts around a lot more yet and putting Gaia boots on them. I can see me fiddling about with Arc profiles as well.

The sensitivity of these speakers to position is off the scale in my experience. I moved each speaker about a 3rd of an inch and the sound changed drastically!

 

[msimanyi]

Edit: Glad you sorted out the dropout problem!

The Gaia feet are fantastic on these speakers. You're going to love those results.

ARC should only be affecting the bass on these, so I'm a bit confused how it could affect the top end... but stranger things have been known to happen. Adding multiple subs seemed to open up the sound stage tremendously for two-channel playback in my system, and normally I consider sound stage nuance NOT dependent on bass.

I moved my right speaker probably 1/4" one night last week, and the change was so significant I couldn't stop listening until nearly 2:00 am. Getting up for work the next morning was... interesting.

I have the front of my 15As about 48" off the wall, so a little further than yours. I ended up hanging some small rugs behind them with a great effect. The area for the rugs was relatively tight, so I had the rugs made by some Moroccan rug distributor to fit the width I needed - about 20" - and I think I had them made about 60" in length. It's just a wild guess on my part, but the shagginess of the rugs probably helps damp the most excessive reflections.

 

[Necrosuit]

I have 15As in a room much smaller than yours and they ROCK. I also have a pair in a larger room and they rock more but still. I came from Montis expecting only a bigger sound, no, everything was better with 15As. If you have the coin I would get a pair with a pair of BF212 subs and be done for life.

I agree 100% with this.15A's are awesome in every aspect.

 

[Kernel]

On my 2nd replacement amp tray. About 10 hours of listening done. No drop outs! Whoo Hoo!

Huge thanks to all here, who have helped with suggestions and valuble knowledge.

Also got the Arc calibration done, a very different sound coming from the speakers, much calmer but perhaps a lacking a little top end air. The Arc kit was a loaner but I have ordered a Gen 4 kit as I am going to be moving these beasts around a lot more yet and putting Gaia boots on them. I can see me fiddling about with Arc profiles as well.

The sensitivity of these speakers to position is off the scale in my experience. I moved each speaker about a 3rd of an inch and the sound changed drastically!

I have pretty much the same infastructure as you with 15A speakers (also bought from a UK dealer at a knock down price). Love my speakers with modern Chord electronics amplification. I also have Gaia's on a voided timber floor (I had to specify upon my order of the Gaia 1's the speakers they were destined for as the required thread sizes were not included).

Don't know where you are in the UK but I live in Salisbury (home of Naim) if I can be of any assistance.