Gordon Gray
Well-known member
And now the violence at his "rallies". And, of course, he denies any responsibility. This dude is very scary.
The DON
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Sorry GG, what's scary is the fact that decent people can't respect each other. The flap of Trump haters is getting intense, Hillary, Sanders, Cruz, Rubio and their followers all jumping in to say "This is not what America is about".....Really? If the shoe was on the other foot so to speak, who is an Ahole? If I believe someone and someone else gets in my face, you will hear about it from me. All of us here are expressing our feelings and frustrations in a civil manner, much of this country is not. What I saw in Chicago on what the media feeds us repulsed me beyond belief, I was saddened, shocked and dismayed at how we look right now to the rest of the world, what happened??
Let's forget Trump specifically for a minute.
The trends are the scary part. The level of anger in this country continues to escalate. Trump is a symptom not the cause. He is tapping into something that was already there and THAT is the real issue.
The economy is in the dumper for most of the country. The economic rebound was almost entirely driven by spending of the top 5% of the country. The other 95% of the country is not in a good state. They are working longer hours for less money with less job security and less benefits. People can adapt, BUT when people used to live better than they do today and know that they will never do as well as their parents, that causes anger. This is a complete reversal of the idea that every generation would do better then the previous generation.
67% of the population below 30 yrs of age are Democrats. Moreover the millennials have all but given up on the idea of ever being rich. They are increasingly non-religious and very liberal in their social values.
So going forward what does this mean?
The GOP is steadily losing members as a percentage of the country, BUT the most vocal members of the GOP are from the Tea Party and are very upset and they are driving the show right now. It will be almost impossible for them win a presidential election at any point going forward. Here is the scary question.... What happens when an extremely angry group of people feels the country has been taken away from them AND they are powerless to do anything about it? Think about that for a minute and what that is going to mean for this country. If you think the "riots" we are seeing now are bad, what happens when all these people become completely despondent?
The trends are the scary part. The level of anger in this country continues to escalate. Trump is a symptom not the cause. He is tapping into something that was already there and THAT is the real issue.
The economy is in the dumper for most of the country. The economic rebound was almost entirely driven by spending of the top 5% of the country. The other 95% of the country is not in a good state. They are working longer hours for less money with less job security and less benefits. People can adapt, BUT when people used to live better than they do today and know that they will never do as well as their parents, that causes anger. This is a complete reversal of the idea that every generation would do better then the previous generation.
67% of the population below 30 yrs of age are Democrats. Moreover the millennials have all but given up on the idea of ever being rich. They are increasingly non-religious and very liberal in their social values.
So going forward what does this mean?
The GOP is steadily losing members as a percentage of the country, BUT the most vocal members of the GOP are from the Tea Party and are very upset and they are driving the show right now. It will be almost impossible for them win a presidential election at any point going forward. Here is the scary question.... What happens when an extremely angry group of people feels the country has been taken away from them AND they are powerless to do anything about it? Think about that for a minute and what that is going to mean for this country. If you think the "riots" we are seeing now are bad, what happens when all these people become completely despondent?
Kevin
Well-known member
I won't say that Trump doesn't have 'any' responsibility, but I can almost guarantee you, that had I and a group of friends wanted to go to Obama's campaign rally in DC back in 2008, and cause a disruption with his supporters, I could have found myself on the wrong end of a fist. In a crowd of 10 -20 thousand people, I am sure someone would have gladly tried to knock my nose in had I put my face in theirs. And I would have deserved it. But I wouldn't do that. First off, I am smart enough not to provoke someone in a crowd like that, I kind of like my nose the way it is. But secondly, I have more respect for people than to cause a disruption to people that have stood in line for hours to hear someone speak. If you recall, Obama said some stuff back then that I had never heard coming from a presidential candidate. These are not exact quotes, I don't have time to google them today, but he said stuff like, "argue with them and get in their face", "if they bring a knife to the fight, you bring a gun", something about "I know who's *** to kick". As a result of that language, would the media had said he held a share of the responsibility for my busted nose? I don't think so.
I find it amusing that the liberal media is tagging Trump as being the one who is upsetting race relations. A NY Times poll taken towards the beginning of the Obama presidency showed 66% of people saying race relations in the US were good. One taken just a year ago by NYT showed it down to 37%. That isn't Trumps fault. In the last 7 years we have had false narratives, mainly driven by politics, that has caused riots with people burning down buildings, vandalizing businesses and trashing cars. We have had people marching in the streets calling for the deaths of police officers, and have had police officers killed as a result. We have had liberal politicians calling for the police to be "less aggressive" in some of the most violent communities of major cities, and as a result those same areas now have exploding crime rates. Again, not Trumps fault.
Al Sharpton is perhaps the biggest race agitator you can possibly come across. From Twana Brawley, to Crown Heights, Freddie's Mart, and destroying the lives of the 'non' Duke rapist, his rhetoric over the years has greatly flamed tensions and sparked riots, and by the lefts standard with Trump, probably has led to the deaths of some people as a result. But who has welcomed him into the White House probably over a hundred times by now? This is who Obama uses as his advisor for race relations? Is that not scary?? No wonder we have never been more divided. But this stuff isn't hounded upon by the media.
Thank goodness for double standards, because without those I don't think the left would have any standards.
Wow kevin... just wow.... haha..... I agree..... Look.... I am not sure I have ever seen the media get so involved... but maybe I just haven't been paying attention.... I saw a 48 hr negative campaign ad against trump on CNN this weekend.... and between the pundits, Democrats, and Republicans... they were all piling on..... All 'playing politics'.... I find it interesting how the message in Ohio last night was spun about the 'bad trade agreements'.... from both Bernie and Hillary.... Hell - they sounded like Trump!! haha.... Trump's description of Bernie as a 'communist'... well he is probably off there .... Socialist would be more appropriate.... and I do kind of like Bernie as he seems to speak from the heart ... I'm just not sure what his programs would do to me...(tax wall street speculation??? - just what we need another thing to depress the market) ....Its the evil rich people's fault!!! Last I checked we were a capitalistic society??? Oh wait- classic politics - find someone to blame so everyone can unite against them... Sound familiar? - maybe I'm wrong there.... Not one of those politicians made a plea for cool heads after this..... They certainly did tell Trump he should tell his supporters to chill - even though the instigators were in fact from their camps.... And yes, Bernie didn't tell them to do it... Who could control that? But, I never heard anyone say...'Look, if you want to come to a rally - and you want to do something positive - come to MY rally!!'..... They are all weasels.... and the reason you should despise them so is because of their reaction here... All for political motive.... Even the President himself.... I saw him speak - and I am not sure where he was - but he looked half in the bag..... He put on his 'I'm one of the people' voice on - and started saying things like 'What do you expect????.....'.... Why not ask for calm.... why not ask people to support their candidates at their own rallys?.... Why not be Presidential???? You don't think that was inciting people - or more or less giving people a righteous feeling after a potential riot?? Nope - politics front and center - with complete disregard for public safety..... I'll say it again - the reason Trump is popular is because of Obama.... I know that probably ticks people off - but it is true... People are sick and tired of political correctness and trying to help the lower 10%.... Trump's message has been - the administration is making very poor business deals.... they are selling out the American people.... Nothing is working...... Obamacare: I believe the stats were 85% insured prior ... now it is 90%.... so 250 mill took benefit cuts - had deductibles skyrocket for 15 mill....had their health care reduced... The general health of the 250 mill I would argue will diminish (people hesitate getting tests and health care because it is out of pocket) - making this health care plan a debacle... But, that was easily predicted....... I am just so sick of this... as are many others -- as the millions of votes seem to indicate.... You can disagree with it.... that's fine... But, you can not deny that millions of people actually AGREE with what Trump is saying.... The numbers show that.... What does that say about our current administration???
Kevin
Well-known member
When asked if he condemned the actions of the one man who sucker punched the one "protestor" a week or so ago, Trump would not do so. By all accounts, such actions are not justified and he should strongly come out against such things. But many on the left won't admit their own responsibility in these things. I put protestor in quotation remarks, because many of these people are not there to protest, they are only there to disrupt, and there is a big difference. These people are looking for trouble, and then you have people acting surprised when they actually find it.
Trump has made a LONG list of comments endorsing violence including saying protesters should be carried away in stretchers.
He went so far as to say he would pay legal fees for the people involved.
He went so far as to say he would pay legal fees for the people involved.
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I agree with both of you guys. However it just grinds my gears when people pretend they are taking the high ground when they are not.
A lot of bs going on. What else is new?
Kevin
Well-known member
Well, here is the full quote, "I love the old days, you know? You know what I hate? There's a guy totally disruptive, throwing punches. We're not allowed to punch back anymore ... I love the old days. You know what they used to do to guys like that when they were in a place like this? They'd be carried out on a stretcher, folks." But I get your point, he shouldn't be saying anything that even remotely advocates violence. But there is shared responsibility here, because no one should be going into one of these places with the sole intention to cause a disruption.
This is from an NBC news article:
******And as the repeated chants of "Ber-nie" demonstrated, it was largely organized by supporters of Sanders, the Democratic presidential candidate who has struggled to win over black voters but whose revolutionary streak has excited radicals of all racial demographics.
"Remember the #TrumpRally wasn't just luck. It took organizers from dozens of organizations and thousands of people to pull off. Great work," tweeted People for Bernie, a large unofficial pro-Sanders organization founded by veterans of the Occupy movement and other leftist activists.***
I don't blame Bernie Sanders, but if Trump supporters were showing up to Bernie events for the purpose of shutting them down, what would the left be saying about Trump and his supporters? Again, I'm all for someone showing up with a sign and peacefully protesting. But actually going into the building to disrupt things for both the speaker and the audience there to listen invites a punch to nose more so than anything Trump has said.
This is from an NBC news article:
******And as the repeated chants of "Ber-nie" demonstrated, it was largely organized by supporters of Sanders, the Democratic presidential candidate who has struggled to win over black voters but whose revolutionary streak has excited radicals of all racial demographics.
"Remember the #TrumpRally wasn't just luck. It took organizers from dozens of organizations and thousands of people to pull off. Great work," tweeted People for Bernie, a large unofficial pro-Sanders organization founded by veterans of the Occupy movement and other leftist activists.***
I don't blame Bernie Sanders, but if Trump supporters were showing up to Bernie events for the purpose of shutting them down, what would the left be saying about Trump and his supporters? Again, I'm all for someone showing up with a sign and peacefully protesting. But actually going into the building to disrupt things for both the speaker and the audience there to listen invites a punch to nose more so than anything Trump has said.
Politics in the US is hitting an all time low and apparently hasn't hit rock bottom.
It is very rare when we see politicians taking the high ground these days. So far it seems like Bernie has managed to take the high ground the most of all of the politicians running. You may not like his talking points, but on character alone he seems to be the most genuine about his intentions. Donald talks off the top of his head which isn't the same thing since he contradicts himself as he changes venues. He says what suits him every time to get a rise out of the audience and not much more.
Not rock bottom but, America has spoken and Trump has all but sealed the deal for the GOP party...will the GOP support his nomination?
Who will he pick for a running mate? I hope it's Dr. Carson, seriously, if he picks Cruz...I'll vomit as I vote for the old alcoholic lesbian who doesn't bake cookies
It's gonna get real ugly now that we are basically down to her and the Don. I also expect for her to falter in the polls (which don't mean much btw) as the people of America show their displeasure and frustration and anger with the current government/congress etc...we are speaking loudly and we vote! I'm not in love with Trump, I think he's all we have right now, the lesser of two/many evils...I've looked left for most of my half century on this planet, and they've let me down too many times, time to look right...
Who will he pick for a running mate? I hope it's Dr. Carson, seriously, if he picks Cruz...I'll vomit as I vote for the old alcoholic lesbian who doesn't bake cookies
It's gonna get real ugly now that we are basically down to her and the Don. I also expect for her to falter in the polls (which don't mean much btw) as the people of America show their displeasure and frustration and anger with the current government/congress etc...we are speaking loudly and we vote! I'm not in love with Trump, I think he's all we have right now, the lesser of two/many evils...I've looked left for most of my half century on this planet, and they've let me down too many times, time to look right...
Stu I hear you ............ here we are a country of 300 plus million and this is the best we can do with the apparent two clowns we have left. Sadly I feel as if I'm in circus freak show.
Have you seen this!
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/03/16/we-choose-the-nominee-not-the-voters-senior-gop-official.html
If the GOP tells its voters that the primaries don't matter and that the candidate they backed isn't running for president on the GOP ticket, it seems like there will be serious backlash. I have trouble believing that Donald after getting the backing he's received would not run as an independent. Of course being a business man maybe the Koch brothers will "buy him out", but there is no way that this will end well. This is a LOSE:LOSE situation. The GOP is going to suffer if Trump runs for president and they will suffer if they pick another candidate. Could this be the beginning of a 3 party system in the US? The could mean that politicians would have to work together if there were no majority along party lines. (Trying hard to find a silver lining to this.)
What really bothers me about this is that many of the Trump supporters have all but said that they don't trust the GOP anymore which is why they wanted an outsider. I don't know how the GOP thinks they can pick a candidate and expect to have enough support to win the election.
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/03/16/we-choose-the-nominee-not-the-voters-senior-gop-official.html
If the GOP tells its voters that the primaries don't matter and that the candidate they backed isn't running for president on the GOP ticket, it seems like there will be serious backlash. I have trouble believing that Donald after getting the backing he's received would not run as an independent. Of course being a business man maybe the Koch brothers will "buy him out", but there is no way that this will end well. This is a LOSE:LOSE situation. The GOP is going to suffer if Trump runs for president and they will suffer if they pick another candidate. Could this be the beginning of a 3 party system in the US? The could mean that politicians would have to work together if there were no majority along party lines. (Trying hard to find a silver lining to this.)
What really bothers me about this is that many of the Trump supporters have all but said that they don't trust the GOP anymore which is why they wanted an outsider. I don't know how the GOP thinks they can pick a candidate and expect to have enough support to win the election.
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No different than 2 weeks ago when Sanders people were questioning Clinton coming away with more delegates even though Sanders won the state. This was due to Super Delegates.
When Debbie Wasserman Schultz was questioned about the fairness of Super Delegates she responded (paraphrasing) The Democratic party hierarchy is who will decide on the candidate. The Super Delegates are to insure no one other who they want will get the nomination.
It doesn't mater which party it is the management is corrupt.
That's not the issue though is it? The Democratic party will stick together.
The question is what will this do to the GOP.
The Mafia sticks together too, does that make it a good thing?
Again, whether you like them or not they aren't likely to fall apart and they will win the next election. There is expected to be a huge voter turnout and not only do Dems outnumber Reps by a margin, but the GOP is fragmented.
So the question is which LOSE:LOSE decision will the GOP make. Alienate their historical base or alienate the Trump supporters.
This is my take. The GOP can't win this election so they lose nothing by cutting bait with Trump and they keep a little respect while they work on rebuilding their party. Trump can't win on the GOP ticket and he can't win as an Independent, but he thinks he will win so he will do whatever he needs to be in the final election.
I don't care about polls or numbers the media throws out. I do not believe that dems out number the GOP right now. Too many of us are sick and tired of being sick and tired and BROKE! The Clinton/Sanders ticket is not going to win...fragmented or not, the Republicans will.
We need to shut down ISIS, not open our arms to radical Muslim immigrants because our founding fathers said so (I said radical, not all Muslims ((I know many wonderful folks of the faith)). We need to pull our troops and Smart bomb the crap out of ISIS's strongholds.
We need to shut our borders to fund sucking immigrants that 'play' the system to the tune of Billions of $$'s. Deport those not here legally!! Get out! Your family intact of course, you all leave together. Do any of you care to guess how many babies are born in US border cities every year for citizenship and benefits?? Any company will do just about whatever it takes to stop the bleeding....why should our great nation be any different?? I work hard and get nary a handout, yet , see immigrants getting $1,800 in food stamps....AND....$2,000+ in cash benefits per month on their EBT cards at my store...seriously?? I'm beyond p!ssed off at this crap! Obama is an ***** socalist democrat.
The GOP is the only one that can repair this crap, sorry Dems, you have failed!!
BTW Obamacare is one of the worse programs this great country has ever seen, total Fail!!
We need to shut down ISIS, not open our arms to radical Muslim immigrants because our founding fathers said so (I said radical, not all Muslims ((I know many wonderful folks of the faith)). We need to pull our troops and Smart bomb the crap out of ISIS's strongholds.
We need to shut our borders to fund sucking immigrants that 'play' the system to the tune of Billions of $$'s. Deport those not here legally!! Get out! Your family intact of course, you all leave together. Do any of you care to guess how many babies are born in US border cities every year for citizenship and benefits?? Any company will do just about whatever it takes to stop the bleeding....why should our great nation be any different?? I work hard and get nary a handout, yet , see immigrants getting $1,800 in food stamps....AND....$2,000+ in cash benefits per month on their EBT cards at my store...seriously?? I'm beyond p!ssed off at this crap! Obama is an ***** socalist democrat.
The GOP is the only one that can repair this crap, sorry Dems, you have failed!!
BTW Obamacare is one of the worse programs this great country has ever seen, total Fail!!
Living in AZ may have an impact on the numbers you believe are representative of the country.
I live in TN and I promise you that this is GOP country and Trump won big here.
However I've lived and visited many other parts of this country that are wired very differently.
Here's the problem. If we didn't have immigrants legal and otherwise our country's population would be shrinking. As a result there would be less people to buy things and our GDP would be lower.
Almost every penny that you give to a poor person gets spent.
While the vast majority of wealthy people when given a tax break just save more money. Contrary to popular belief they don't grow more jobs with that extra money.
It doesn't matter who is elected. The middle class is going away. There is nothing anyone can do to stop that. There is demand for the people at the top to make decisions and to run the complex systems that automate white collar and blue collar work, so this group continues to earn more and more money. Any position that paid a good wage that can be automated will be automated.
People are ****ed off, but these trends are world wide. Unless we roll back technology these changes will continue.
Manufacturing in the US has been on an upswing for a while now so offshoring is becoming less of a big deal. The problem is that manufacturing requires far fewer workers than it used to.
There is nothing that Trump can actually do to change any of this. None of his proposals will have the least bit of impact.
Trump's rallying cry has become a last act of defiance for a bunch of ****ed of people who want to wave a middle finger at the government. But the government has nothing to do with this. We are at the mercy of large corporations who are driving almost everything these days.
In another 15 years we are predicted to have AT LEAST 25% unemployment because there will not be enough jobs that need to be done due to automation. Unless there is wealth redistribution, people will not be able to buy things that keep our economy going and our economy will collapse.
Things are getting ready to change in a big way and people hate change and want to turn the clocks back. However if we did try to undo technology to make things less efficient to keep more people employed we would just fall behind the rest of the world even more.
I live in TN and I promise you that this is GOP country and Trump won big here.
However I've lived and visited many other parts of this country that are wired very differently.
Here's the problem. If we didn't have immigrants legal and otherwise our country's population would be shrinking. As a result there would be less people to buy things and our GDP would be lower.
Almost every penny that you give to a poor person gets spent.
While the vast majority of wealthy people when given a tax break just save more money. Contrary to popular belief they don't grow more jobs with that extra money.
It doesn't matter who is elected. The middle class is going away. There is nothing anyone can do to stop that. There is demand for the people at the top to make decisions and to run the complex systems that automate white collar and blue collar work, so this group continues to earn more and more money. Any position that paid a good wage that can be automated will be automated.
People are ****ed off, but these trends are world wide. Unless we roll back technology these changes will continue.
Manufacturing in the US has been on an upswing for a while now so offshoring is becoming less of a big deal. The problem is that manufacturing requires far fewer workers than it used to.
There is nothing that Trump can actually do to change any of this. None of his proposals will have the least bit of impact.
Trump's rallying cry has become a last act of defiance for a bunch of ****ed of people who want to wave a middle finger at the government. But the government has nothing to do with this. We are at the mercy of large corporations who are driving almost everything these days.
In another 15 years we are predicted to have AT LEAST 25% unemployment because there will not be enough jobs that need to be done due to automation. Unless there is wealth redistribution, people will not be able to buy things that keep our economy going and our economy will collapse.
Things are getting ready to change in a big way and people hate change and want to turn the clocks back. However if we did try to undo technology to make things less efficient to keep more people employed we would just fall behind the rest of the world even more.
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