System no. 442 ( CLS, Motion 15, ELS 9 )
- Thread starter R.I.P
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June 9, Martin Logan authorized dealer Karachi on my request sent two technicians over to my residence to disassemble ELS 9.
After one and half hour of testing and disassembling and assembling. Was determined that indeed one panel was partially dead. And the second had partial weak output.
Fortunately my warranty period has not run out. Hopefully the authorized dealer will replace with new replacement panels.
My questions to distinguished members are following:
Does any one know in U.S dollars the price of new ESL 9 replacement panels?
What color are the replacement panels? Graphite like the original or grey color?
How many weeks go by prior to finally receiving new replacement panels pair?
Many thanks for your answer. Really appreciate.
After one and half hour of testing and disassembling and assembling. Was determined that indeed one panel was partially dead. And the second had partial weak output.
Fortunately my warranty period has not run out. Hopefully the authorized dealer will replace with new replacement panels.
My questions to distinguished members are following:
Does any one know in U.S dollars the price of new ESL 9 replacement panels?
What color are the replacement panels? Graphite like the original or grey color?
How many weeks go by prior to finally receiving new replacement panels pair?
Many thanks for your answer. Really appreciate.
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Wow, I've not heard of panels going bad that young. How old are the speakers? That's a bit concerning to me.
i do not remember with precision the date when i bought ELS 9.
Approximately middle March, 2019. When i heard partial loss in output from panel the speakers were 4 years from the date of acquisition.
Checked the crossover and circuit board. Everything looked okay except for slight discoloration of 4 capacitors and 2 other parts. Was told discoloration is due to aging. And nothing to worry about.
Approximately middle March, 2019. When i heard partial loss in output from panel the speakers were 4 years from the date of acquisition.
Checked the crossover and circuit board. Everything looked okay except for slight discoloration of 4 capacitors and 2 other parts. Was told discoloration is due to aging. And nothing to worry about.
Most panels last 15 to 20 years I thought.
Tmort
Well-known member
My 9’s are 3 years old and sound great, hope they don’t suffer a similar fate so soon!
I bought new panels for my Prodigy about 2 years ago. I'm thinking the same.
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hope these "technicians " knew what they were doing. Both in terms of general trouble shooting logic and specific ML product and service knowledge.
1. the design is such that it is quick and simple to access the entire board that contains all the sub elements within the cabinet. the entire boards can be swapped, if NECESSARY.
2. it is more likely that your issues are there, in sub assemblies, than in the panels.
3. or upstream in system.
4. if the issues have been truly and thoroughly trouble shot, and indeed you have two panels that are the culprit's, rare as that would be, they are covered.
5. be sure that there are no other existential causes, such as misuse, malfunctioning equipment up stream, or negative environmental conditions in your space.
1. the design is such that it is quick and simple to access the entire board that contains all the sub elements within the cabinet. the entire boards can be swapped, if NECESSARY.
2. it is more likely that your issues are there, in sub assemblies, than in the panels.
3. or upstream in system.
4. if the issues have been truly and thoroughly trouble shot, and indeed you have two panels that are the culprit's, rare as that would be, they are covered.
5. be sure that there are no other existential causes, such as misuse, malfunctioning equipment up stream, or negative environmental conditions in your space.
Im wondering about humidity. RAH, didnt you say once that your area has high humidity? Maybe I am thinking of another member.
beekay
Member
Russr
Well-known member
Humidity reaches 75% during summer season. I take steps to minimize the effect of humidity.
My CLS panels are approx. 8 times the age of ELS9 and never had partial dead panel.
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No smokers. Coal and oil not used to prepare meals. Natural gas used.
Can anyone please tell me what color are replacement panels under warranty for ELS 9.
amey01
Well-known member
Thanks distinguished members Robert D, Tmort, Dennis Chern, beekay, Russr and amey01 for taking the trouble and making the effort to respond.
TOPIC.
After four and half year turbulent travel down trial and error lane. Now near destination, i.e full sonic satisfaction goal, despite flaw in panel.
INTRODUCTION.
I would like to inform interested members how I have recently realized Martin Logan hybrid ELS 9 full potential with Anthem amplifier after substantial passage of time, namely about four and a half years. This improvement was piecemeal. First, credit goes to my colleague Roberto. Second, to ELS 9 instruction manual author since inside was valuable placement advice. Third, some credit to me for not being completely satisfied with acoustics. Tinkered with cables, software setting and room placement. Kept tinkering until all jigsaw puzzle pieces for achieving superb sound fell into place.
FIRST STEP.
First step is to determine expense budget. And then undertake research to acquire a music system that fits inside budget, has potential to create sonic satisfaction and possess synergy. I did the research but in the end decided to implement Roberto’s pinpoint hardware recommendation to me. He is expert in this area and has clear insight into audiophile electronic equipment and their synergistic combination. My hardware acquisition each took place separately over time.
Roberto recommend:
Martin Logan ELS 9 hybrid speaker.
Anthem STR integrated amplifier.
Nordost Blue Heaven 2m speaker cable for panel.
DH Labs T-14 2m speaker cable for woofer.
Audirvana computer software annual subscription.
My decision:
Shunyata Research Venom USB cable.
HP Pavilion desktop.
SECOND STEP.
Matching cable, electronics and loudspeaker in addition to optimized room fit, room placement and room dimension is key to unlock full sonic potential of system.
First, in my opinion large ML hybrid not unleash complete sonic potential in small room. Therefore in a small to small-medium room that are unsuitable to electrostatic hybrid speakers try Daniel Hertz music system. Price approx. 13k.
Second, perfect placement allows minimization of deleterious effect of standing waves in room. This will be achieved if formula given in instruction manual is followed. Formula is for ideal room. Since most rooms not designed to achieve optimum acoustics. The further your room differs from dedicated optimized room the greater measurement gap between manual trial and error adjusted placement and location obtained from formula.
Third, take care not to place music system in oddly shaped room with low multiple unsymmetrical sloping ceiling. If possible keep in rectangular room with one level ceiling. Length of room greater than width. Position loudspeakers along length of room and according to formula given in ML instruction manual.
CONCLUSION.
Three aspects to ELS 9 loudspeaker design I feel if ML implement without increase in retail price may lead to substantial improvement in sound, increase in MLO member and other owner satisfaction and therefore increase in revenue earned by ML.
One. ELS 9 panel width narrow. Increase panel width. Perhaps maximum to Expression 13A size. Additional cost to ML not much. Why not increase panel width if there is substantial improvement in sonics. And small increase in additional expense. Will help to acquire greater market share in this ultra competitive segment of market.
Two. Design rear woofer to be of acoustic suspension type. Therefore match in design with front woofer. Additional cost to ML not much.
Three. Ensure ELS 9 profile of change in impedance with frequency similar to ESL X. I assume if comparatively amplifier friendly profile can be achieved for ELS X then why not for ELS 9. This will make ELS 9 compatible to a greater variety of amplifiers. Cause delay in high frequency roll off when increasing volume in tube power amps with less robust power supply.
The magic of electrostatic panel is in high frequency transient speed, image size, imaging, air, purity, sonic picture and sound stage. When wired to Anthem amplifier, ELS 9 and if recording excellent give a taste of above sonic qualities. Curvilinear line source due to expansive panel and no crossover create spacious sound stage and larger sonic picture.
After four and half year turbulent travel down trial and error lane. Now near destination, i.e full sonic satisfaction goal, despite flaw in panel.
INTRODUCTION.
I would like to inform interested members how I have recently realized Martin Logan hybrid ELS 9 full potential with Anthem amplifier after substantial passage of time, namely about four and a half years. This improvement was piecemeal. First, credit goes to my colleague Roberto. Second, to ELS 9 instruction manual author since inside was valuable placement advice. Third, some credit to me for not being completely satisfied with acoustics. Tinkered with cables, software setting and room placement. Kept tinkering until all jigsaw puzzle pieces for achieving superb sound fell into place.
FIRST STEP.
First step is to determine expense budget. And then undertake research to acquire a music system that fits inside budget, has potential to create sonic satisfaction and possess synergy. I did the research but in the end decided to implement Roberto’s pinpoint hardware recommendation to me. He is expert in this area and has clear insight into audiophile electronic equipment and their synergistic combination. My hardware acquisition each took place separately over time.
Roberto recommend:
Martin Logan ELS 9 hybrid speaker.
Anthem STR integrated amplifier.
Nordost Blue Heaven 2m speaker cable for panel.
DH Labs T-14 2m speaker cable for woofer.
Audirvana computer software annual subscription.
My decision:
Shunyata Research Venom USB cable.
HP Pavilion desktop.
SECOND STEP.
Matching cable, electronics and loudspeaker in addition to optimized room fit, room placement and room dimension is key to unlock full sonic potential of system.
First, in my opinion large ML hybrid not unleash complete sonic potential in small room. Therefore in a small to small-medium room that are unsuitable to electrostatic hybrid speakers try Daniel Hertz music system. Price approx. 13k.
Second, perfect placement allows minimization of deleterious effect of standing waves in room. This will be achieved if formula given in instruction manual is followed. Formula is for ideal room. Since most rooms not designed to achieve optimum acoustics. The further your room differs from dedicated optimized room the greater measurement gap between manual trial and error adjusted placement and location obtained from formula.
Third, take care not to place music system in oddly shaped room with low multiple unsymmetrical sloping ceiling. If possible keep in rectangular room with one level ceiling. Length of room greater than width. Position loudspeakers along length of room and according to formula given in ML instruction manual.
CONCLUSION.
Three aspects to ELS 9 loudspeaker design I feel if ML implement without increase in retail price may lead to substantial improvement in sound, increase in MLO member and other owner satisfaction and therefore increase in revenue earned by ML.
One. ELS 9 panel width narrow. Increase panel width. Perhaps maximum to Expression 13A size. Additional cost to ML not much. Why not increase panel width if there is substantial improvement in sonics. And small increase in additional expense. Will help to acquire greater market share in this ultra competitive segment of market.
Two. Design rear woofer to be of acoustic suspension type. Therefore match in design with front woofer. Additional cost to ML not much.
Three. Ensure ELS 9 profile of change in impedance with frequency similar to ESL X. I assume if comparatively amplifier friendly profile can be achieved for ELS X then why not for ELS 9. This will make ELS 9 compatible to a greater variety of amplifiers. Cause delay in high frequency roll off when increasing volume in tube power amps with less robust power supply.
The magic of electrostatic panel is in high frequency transient speed, image size, imaging, air, purity, sonic picture and sound stage. When wired to Anthem amplifier, ELS 9 and if recording excellent give a taste of above sonic qualities. Curvilinear line source due to expansive panel and no crossover create spacious sound stage and larger sonic picture.
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Comig to think about it. Why the ML center ELS have tweeters. Also pusseled about rhe relatively small panel size yet price point is high - ELS 18 about same as ESL 11 (per piece) yet no active bass unit nor ARC correction
ML center ELS have folded Motion tweeter to allow tweeter to synergistically interact with electrostatic panel. Goal to enhance or improve sound.
Think of center channel loudspeaker like specialized equipment to forcefully reproduce dialogue and whatever else is covered by speaker frequency range.
Active bass driver and related Anthem room correction are used in subwoofer. Subwoofer specializes in recreating low frequency sound.
If center channel and subwoofer speaker are merged into one chassis then each no longer remain specialized hardware. To keep separate is comparatively possibly same or less expensive way to build to achieve perhaps same or better performance result and is required since home theatre equipment has separate channel for each. Lastly if from both specialized equipment desire optimum home theatre audio then need to have space between them or kept separate from each other.
Price is high however size of panel is small. Three reason come to mind.
First, price is high reason ML has to cover from sales not only part of factory cost attributable to manufacture this product however in addition part of other company cost too. For example marketing, administrative and distribution expense. How will ML recover other company cost if not basically through revenue from primary operation.
Second, material, machinery dep. etc. to build only panel in relation to other cost specific to manufacture entire ML hybrids perhaps is comparatively low. Therefore large panel size or small, expense to build will vary but not amount to much in relation to other than panel product cost.
Third, ML may desire greater contribution margin from center channel therefore set higher price provided market may be able to absorb higher price. In other words provided consumers are willing to pay high price.
Think of center channel loudspeaker like specialized equipment to forcefully reproduce dialogue and whatever else is covered by speaker frequency range.
Active bass driver and related Anthem room correction are used in subwoofer. Subwoofer specializes in recreating low frequency sound.
If center channel and subwoofer speaker are merged into one chassis then each no longer remain specialized hardware. To keep separate is comparatively possibly same or less expensive way to build to achieve perhaps same or better performance result and is required since home theatre equipment has separate channel for each. Lastly if from both specialized equipment desire optimum home theatre audio then need to have space between them or kept separate from each other.
Price is high however size of panel is small. Three reason come to mind.
First, price is high reason ML has to cover from sales not only part of factory cost attributable to manufacture this product however in addition part of other company cost too. For example marketing, administrative and distribution expense. How will ML recover other company cost if not basically through revenue from primary operation.
Second, material, machinery dep. etc. to build only panel in relation to other cost specific to manufacture entire ML hybrids perhaps is comparatively low. Therefore large panel size or small, expense to build will vary but not amount to much in relation to other than panel product cost.
Third, ML may desire greater contribution margin from center channel therefore set higher price provided market may be able to absorb higher price. In other words provided consumers are willing to pay high price.
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