System #228 (Odyssey)

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I've been watching this thread with great interest, because I'm a fan of Spectral gear. (I can't afford it, but I've heard it in several ML systems, and liked what I heard) Spectral amps and preamps ARE incredibly "fast" sounding, and can compliment ML speakers, if they are cabled correctly. Spectral's insistance on MIT cables is another reason I've never bought Spectral gear--I've never heard an MIT cable that sounded as good with ML speakers as Nordost's mid-line stuff...

A couple of details on the Spectral amps (which are the ones requiring MIT cabling)... they feature no input choke or output inductor (hence the MHz specs; OK the inferior 'S' versions do have the input choke and other input-stage differences), so they depend on the MIT filters to do the job, and probably consider the overall cable construction superior.

From my perspective, I buy them because I have to, and you are not the first one to claim that Nordost would do a better job. I usually don't buy anything I cannot analyze technically, and MIT cables are a black box. Case in point are "their" patents on power conditioning - if you look closely at these patents on the MIT web site, they seem to be claimed to be theirs; yet if you read them on uspto.gov, they are owned by a third company and assigned to one Richard Marsh (presumably of Marsh Sound Design now?). It's unknown what the relation to MIT these have, and I suspect they simply have an exclusive license. Yet, all the patents appear to be simple circuits, therefore, I just refuse to pay their insane prices.

But if you are using Windex on your cleaning cloths for the panels, it's no wonder they sound like crap in the highs. It's a minor miracle the mylar has any conductor on it's surface at all, and it's even more of a miracle that the mylar hasn't melted, or at least developed ripples and holes.

LOL... the damp cloth is cleaning the stators, not the mylar :) but I get the point. I've only done this once to prove the point about humidity.

As mentioned a few days ago, replacing the Kimber Select KS-1120 with the KS-1030 made a significant overall improvement, including the highs, and I can now enjoy the cymbals... I take warble-tone measurements every time I make a change, and here's what I noticed with the KS-1030:

1) I can now cross the sub over at 27Hz (from 25Hz), and there is no impact on higher bass frequencies as it used (crossing over at 27Hz used to add 2dB at 31.5, 40, 50Hz before). This gives me the very deep visceral impact of bass drums that I was missing (e.g. original Telarc Carl Orff Carmina Burana)

2) There are measurable drops of about 2-3dB in the 2-4kHz region from the previous readings! (Strictly speaking, these measurements do not have a standard humidity level reference, so humidity may be a factor to a certain degree - but I hear these differences, so they are real). Even if the differences are realistically much less, say 0.5-1dB, they still are very significant.

3) I now have flat response in the 125Hz to 250Hz region (used to have a drop of about 2dB).

All of these have made for a more realistic timbre.

One last thing on this Telarc CD: I used to think it was junk, with compressed chorus dynamics, and confused and collapsed soundstage. The LP version that I have heard was full of life, so I always blamed the CD transfer. But every system upgrade has rendered a sizable improvement on this CD, to the point that, for the first time now, I am fully enjoying it. The dynamics are spectacular, the chorus and soundstage are huge with no sense of compression, and I am sure there is room for more improvement with better speakers. This is probably the most difficult-to-reproduce piece of music that I have, yet it's not really reference quality, but it's extremely demanding.
 
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Is that a Zoethecus audio rack? I've seen many Zoethecus racks but i've never seen a 6 shelf Zoethecus rack before. That's a rare piece and they don't make those anymore.

Yes this is a Zoethecus rack, and this was one of the standard sizes (actually the tallest), although I do also rarely come across this configuration. The spacing of the shelves is custom. I regret not buying another one...
 
I have updated my original post after buying an MIT Z Strip parallel conditioner. The improvement is significant.
 
If anyone ever needs a cooling fan, I just installed one of those PQFans from http://hometheatercooling.com on top of the DAC's external power supply which has been running too hot for my liking and has been giving me trouble the last few years. Had to raise the fan about 1.5 inches, and run it at 80V (through a variac) because it was still a bit audible in a quiet room. It is, however, the most quiet fan I tried.
 
I have updated my main system post with respect to the issues that I've been having with the highs... after auditioning the Magico M6's and also playing copies of original master tapes on a newly acquired Revox reel-to-reel, I am convinced my issues have to do with the CD technology. Updated system picture also uploaded...
 
I have yet again updated my main system post after auditioning the CLXs with the same electronics. These speakers left me perplexed... more details in the original post.
 
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I have updated the main post after finally being able to produce a virtually 'flat' frequency response from 20Hz to 10kHz (the frequency response of the RadioShack SPL meter is the limiting factor with higher frequencies), with the help of the sub and a 4ohm woofer attenuating resistor. The results are phenomenal.
 
New system pictures uploaded in the main post at the start of this thread after the arrival of the analog rig and the Berkeley Alpha DAC; additional pictures and thoughts on the new sources are under http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9365

Great job Spectral! I have enjoyed following your other thread and reading some of your thoughts as you were evaluating. If you have other pictures of your seating area and surroundings that would be neat to see. Have fun with your new analog setup!:music:

Glen
 
Listening area pic

Hi Glen,

took a while but I finally got around to it. The area is OK, looking for a bigger home at the moment...

Peter
 

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nice system, and good luck in the search of your bigger home! You need it for sure with these speakers! I am sure I don't have to tell you that out of all your tweaks with high prices interconnects, changing out components, power conditioners etc.. your b i g g e s t tweak will be when you finally get to set up the speakers correctly 3-5' away from the wall, with lots of acoustical panels behind each speaker and on the first reflection points, add a bass trap, etc... Also, listening position against rear wall has always been a big no-no...I am surprised that you can live with how they sound in your current environment... You will be blown away when properly set up!

Not trying to criticize here at all - just offering suggestions to get best possible performance out of your great system!
Good luck and happy listening!
 
You have spoken words of wisdom, so no offense. I am well aware of these issues, as I am aware that in this part of the country I would have to overspend to get a decent place with a large room for the speakers. :( Despite the room shortcomings, the sound is just stunning.

BTW, I've been meaning to post some updates here... Namely, measuring the magnetic field of the shielded power cables vs. the one to the amp that's not. All I did is get one of those devices that Home Depot sells that tell you whether a line is hot or not by sticking a tiny coil that protrudes out of the device into the wall socket.

I'll post pictures soon, and you'll be stunned to see that there is no magnetic field generated by those shielded cables, and how far away from the unshielded one does this device trigger its alarm. The shielded power cables have contributed immensely to the dark backgrounds of my analog.
 
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Nice system, have you considered hiring an architect and or acoustic consultant to design your next home or listening room?

RE: Room acoustics
I've read that if your speakers are on the long wall and your head is about a foot from the rear wall the reflections will not disturb your sonic perceptions.

I have found this to be false.

I moved my couch so my head is about three feet (1-meter) from the back wall, and that works better (for me).

RE: Super Tweeters
As you age and the little hairs in your ear canals start to die off (so I've heard). In the future you may wish to revisit the super tweeter or higher frequency issues and adjust the sound to your hearing abilities. I think this is one reason why I like the recent tweeter addition to my own system, I'm just under 50 years old myself.

Link / Tweeter Addition:
http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9941
 
Assuming that I get a dedicated room, yes I will hire the local dealer to come in with his ASC tube traps and all. In the living room, it will be a tough sell with the wife.

With respect to sitting against the font (back?) wall, I've had a couple of discussions with the dealer, who a few months ago decided to switch the position of his speakers in the store along the long wall with the seat flush against the opposite wall, because as he put it, "it's more typical of a home installation"... Could be the New England thing with smaller-than-average rooms. He did because apparently wasn't selling enough speakers in the more normal configuration... Don't know what to make of this...

Thanks for everyone's comments.
 
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smaller-than-average rooms.
I live in a college town, one of the local high-end dealers has a similar set-up in his "small room". I assume to cater to college kids with taste and not lots of room.

Years ago I heard Kef Q-60's in this room and some of the smaller Linn speakers, both worked very well. They also had a fabric tapestry of some sort on the wall behind the listening position.
 
Hey Spectral,

I was searching for some advice on an Ayre P-5xe as an upgrade to my Dynavector P-75 mkii and was reminded of your system. The new picture of your room looks really good and I bet it sounds nice. Before I moved into a bigger room my setup was somewhat similar and while I prefer where it sits now, I still was able to achieve a very inviting soundstage. I am auditioning the Ayre phono preamp this weekend and so far it has been fabulous. Are you still enjoying your's? Look forward to seeing your new pictures after you move into the new room.


Glen
 
Hey Glen, yes the Ayre is a rock-solid performer. Every non-audiophile who's heard this system with analog sources has been bowled over. One neighbor offered to buy the entire system, after I played Brubeck's Take Five; he and his wife could not believe that high hats could sound so real, or that bass performance would be optimized right at the listening seat (he kept walking around the room and could not understand why bass was rolled off everywhere else but at the seat).

I am sure there are better phono stages out there - maybe tonepub can shed some light here, so it's all a matter of balance with your Dynavector. I gotta tell you, though, DO run it in balanced mode to get the most out of it. I am not sure you'll be impressed with the single-ended connection. This was not an issue for me as I decided from the get-go that cartridges must be run in balanced mode all the time, every time, therefore the VPI's junction box is XLR as well.

Peter
 
Thanks Spectral for the heads up about running balanced. I am all about running everything balanced one day as I am a believer in this approach. As of now my turntable does not currently offer balanced connections but rather single ended. My thoughts were to have a cable made that is rca on the TT end and balanced on the other, that way when I output it to the preamp it will remain balanced the rest of the way. All of my other componets are balanced, with the exception of the TT which is a shame, but there is nothing I can do at this point without re-wiring it, and I am not up to doing that right now. So as it sits in my system the conversion from unbalanced to balanced is 3 times. (TT to Phono pre goes from unbal. to bal. then Phono pre to preamp goes from bal. to unbal. and then back to balanced when it arrives at the preamp.) I'm assuming that there is such a cable that will do what I am hoping so the conversion will only be one time and not 3. Then if my TT manufacturer ever offers a path to XLR connections then I would consider going that route. Of course for now I will have to buy 2 sets of cables which was not on my mind when I fell in love with the music the Ayre makes.

On a side note, when you listen with your ear directly up to the speaker and the volume set to normal listening levels how distinctly can you hear the phono preamp? It is definitely not audible from the listening seat, but I can hear a slight lower hum when I listen with my ear up to the woofer. Nothing is coming from the panel except a slight hiss which is not audible either from the listening chair. The only reason I ask is because I wasn't sure if this was normal. The dynavector did the same thing and seems to be the same level. If this was totally wrong then while I had my rack away from the wall then I would address the issue in more detail, but I'm not sure anything else can be done. It really is minor, but if you have any thoughts please feel free to share. BTW the table is grounded and after all of the grounding schemes I have tried the table works best grounded to the preamp. Thanks.


Glen
 
RE: balanced. The situation is not as dire as I let be understood... The Ayre manual describes connecting the RCA-terminated tt to the balanced inputs of the phono.

RE: noise. Yes there is a very low level of hum and a very low level of hiss at normal listening levels; I believe it's impossible or very expensive to remove it entirely. BUT - as I found out during my investigation, this is MOSTLY due to stray magnetic fields rather than transformer hum from the preamp. Namely, with the help of the Revox I was able to measure the amount of noise (hum) picked up by rearranging the power cables all around. In the end, as I have mentioned, I replaced all the cords except the amp's with shielded Siltech. A few posts above, I describe how I can easily "measure" stray electric fields at 60 Hz with a simple hot-wire detector device. Basically, the device has a little coil to pick up electric fields, and none of the shielded cords is now emitting any detectable noise. Conversely, when I keep the device even a few inches from the amp's cord (a Shunyata) it goes berzerk - I will upload pictures to demonstrate the effect.

Bottom line - only after replacing the power cords did I get that low a level of hum from the phono. (It's also true I originally had a ground loop that led me down this investigation). Whatever hum remains now is probably due to the electronics (layout?) in the Ayre. Personally, I have never heard a phono section that's not subject to hum and that includes battery operated devices like the Nagra BPS - yes, it probably picks up surrounding electrical fields.

Peter
 
Thank you alot Peter. That puts my mind at ease and gives me a better insight as to what is happening. Usually when I have some kind of ground loop/hum it is a mystery and a guessing game to remove it. I feel the same way as you concerning it being nearly impossible to eliminate the noise entirely, but right now it is very minimal and probably not worth messing too much with. Although I am now in the process of arranging the componets to move the amp as far away from the phono preamp as physically possible along with the cables from the power cords. That device you mentioned sounds really useful in situations such as these and I look forward to seeing the pictures you referred too. Thanks again for your help. It was right on time and target.


Glen
 
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