SL3 woofer replacement

[Wildcat Rudy]

A buddy of mine who works a lot with building speakers is investigating quite a few woofer units with me, and I may wind up changing to a vented design (which even ML has moved to in their recent hybrids), and/or go with an 8" woofer which may be more suitable to the smaller cabinet. I'll keep things updated here if we do anything with this.

Or even so, if someone has a used original Sequel II woofer...I'm all ears.

I'm partly sore since I missed a pair of Electromotion ESLs on Audiogon which sold for $995...by only an hour. That would have solved everything. But with other issues I've found with these Sequel IIs, I am leaning more towards scrapping them and moving on. There's another pair of speakers (not ML) locally that I've always wanted, at a pretty good price, and I'm really tempted at the moment. If that's the case, I'll wait a few more years and get MLs when I can afford something bigger than the Electromotion ESLs.

 

[Tosh]

A buddy of mine who works a lot with building speakers is investigating quite a few woofer units with me, and I may wind up changing to a vented design (which even ML has moved to in their recent hybrids)... [snip]

Don't follow ML's loser move to vented. Stay sealed! (if you can't go dipole)

 

[tday02]

SL3 Woofer Replacement Questions

Hello Everyone,

I am new to the board, but have owned a pair of SL3s for ~ 10years. I managed to blow a woofer. I have some questions that you guys can probably help with.
In order of importance:
1. I see that the Scan-Speak Discovery 26W/4534G seems to be the recommended replacement. Is this true for all versions of Sl3? If not, how can I tell (preferably without taking it apart as I am still listening with the bass disconnected)?
2. Where is the best place to look for a guide to getting the side rails off?
3. I saw a mod recommended to put damping in the cabinet. It seems like a good idea since I will have both apart anyway. Any reason not to do this?
4. I saw talk of replacing the passive crossover with an active cross-over. Any reason to so this if I am biwiring?
And finally,
5. What's the closest in the current ML line up to the SL3.

Many thanks in advance to answers (especially to 1 & 2),

Tony

 

[Tosh]

1. Later SL3 models used a thick pulpy paper cone and cast aluminum basket Vifa woofer mounted in a counterbored hole. Earlier SL3 used a plastic cone and stamped steel basket Eminence woofer, and iirc(!?) it also was mounted in a counterbored hole. It's this counterbore diameter that determines if a replacement woofer will physically fit without modifying the cabinet.

2. ML was not consistent over the years with the mounting rails' hardware for these older generation speakers, so your SL3 could disassemble by tapping the rails with a rubber mallet either upward OR downward. On my last year (2000) of manf SL3, the rails were tapped downward to release them (see pic).

3. Certainly more stuffing is needed in the cabinet. But the cabinet needs proper bracing, not some 'rubber wallpaper.'

4. Going active xo on the bass brings all these older ML hybrids up to date and competitive with the newer models which use internal active xo on the bass. The large series inductance and DCR in the passive woofer xo is a fatal choke point to the amp's control of the woofer, and once you hear your woofer play cleanly and un-strangled you just can't go back to passive.

5. SL3's basic strengths are a large (tall) enough ESL panel combined with a large enough woofer (10 inches or more) in a large enough SEALED cabinet and a low (under 300Hz) xo point. I reject ML's decorator-friendly tiny cabinets and wimpy ported woofers, and also generally distrust ML to select a decent class D amp for the woofer. But in ML's recent history there are sealed woofer ESL hybrid models worth considering, like Summit and Spire. Today, Montis comes closest to those basic design strengths.

I now have 'Ascenti' which will hopefully be my last ML, and you are welcome to come down to the South Bay to hear them. I didn't waste any time going straight to active xo on the bass for these, and I'm pleasantly suprised with the cabinet size and rigidity and the Vifa aluminum cone woofer in these, relative to the SL3.

 

[tday02]

1. Later SL3 models used a thick pulpy paper cone and cast aluminum basket Vifa woofer mounted in a counterbored hole. Earlier SL3 used a plastic cone and stamped steel basket Eminence woofer, and iirc(!?) it also was mounted in a counterbored hole. It's this counterbore diameter that determines if a replacement woofer will physically fit without modifying the cabinet.

2. ML was not consistent over the years with the mounting rails' hardware for these older generation speakers, so your SL3 could disassemble by tapping the rails with a rubber mallet either upward OR downward. On my last year (2000) of manf SL3, the rails were tapped downward to release them (see pic).

3. Certainly more stuffing is needed in the cabinet. But the cabinet needs proper bracing, not some 'rubber wallpaper.'

4. Going active xo on the bass brings all these older ML hybrids up to date and competitive with the newer models which use internal active xo on the bass. The large series inductance and DCR in the passive woofer xo is a fatal choke point to the amp's control of the woofer, and once you hear your woofer play cleanly and un-strangled you just can't go back to passive.

5. SL3's basic strengths are a large (tall) enough ESL panel combined with a large enough woofer (10 inches or more) in a large enough SEALED cabinet and a low (under 300Hz) xo point. I reject ML's decorator-friendly tiny cabinets and wimpy ported woofers, and also generally distrust ML to select a decent class D amp for the woofer. But in ML's recent history there are sealed woofer ESL hybrid models worth considering, like Summit and Spire. Today, Montis comes closest to those basic design strengths.

I now have 'Ascenti' which will hopefully be my last ML, and you are welcome to come down to the South Bay to hear them. I didn't waste any time going straight to active xo on the bass for these, and I'm pleasantly suprised with the cabinet size and rigidity and the Vifa aluminum cone woofer in these, relative to the SL3.

Thanks very much for the replies:

1. I will call ML on Monday to see if I can determine which woofer I have. Presumably it is a bit academic as I assume there are no plug and play replacements for the older driver and I will have to modify the cabinets if that is what I have?

3. More bracing + rubber wallpaper, or instead of rubber wallpaper?

4. For xo replacement, is there a thread somewhere describing how to do it and suggesting which one to use as replacement.

5. I would love to take you up on this in the new year.

Best,

Tony

 

[Tosh]

What is the serial number of your SL3?
You should be able to peek through the grill to determine which of the two drivers you have: plastic or paper cone and cast or stamped basket should be easy to tell apart. Post a pic? It may be that the older counterbore also fits the newer drivers, but I don't know that for sure.
And you are correct: Afaik ML only has available the newer aluminum cone 10inch woofer of the Ascent and Odyssey (Vifa pn MA26WO07-04; ML pn D10-38OZ) as 10inch woofer replacements for all older models, and it's about $250 each. Great woofer, but a bit expensive, and its phenomenal performance capabilities are a bit wasted on the flimsy cabinet of the SL3 (relative to Ascent), and certainly wasted unless you go active xo on the bass. The Scan-Speak Discovery 26W/4534G at about $100 from Madisound is a better match price/performance-wise for the SL3. SL3 is a wonderful speaker, esp once it has active xo on the bass.

I have so far been reluctant here on the MLO.com forums to give the dirty details on how I went active xo on the bass of my SL3 and recently on my Ascenti (OMFG!), because of my XO's lack of pedigree, but free to PM me, and I'll help you.

 

[tday02]

Just got this email from Scott Gribble at ML:

Hello Tony,

Unfortunately we no longer have the original SL3 woofer in stock, but fortunately there is an option out there that has very similar specs and will work for a replacement. We have tested this driver here, and found it to be a good option.

http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...very-26w/4534g-10-aluminum-cone-woofer-4-ohm/


All the Best,
Scott

No mention of old vs newer SL3s, so I have ordered a pair of these.

Tony

 

[Tosh]

Good choice! So the Scan-Speak Discovery 26W/4534G is the 'official' replacement.

 

[InterMechanico]

Rolls Eyes.lol

 

[Nitram92]

Good choice! So the Scan-Speak Discovery 26W/4534G is the 'official' replacement.

Hi,

I have a pair of SL3 with golden connectors. I guess it is the first version. I have this woofer:


I had a look at the Scan-Speak Discovery 26W/4534G and it looks like it is too large (about 1 cm) to fit in the hole of the current woofer.
Do you confirm that this model (26W/4534G) is the best for my SL3?
If yes, I will have to modify the cabinet. Do you know which tool is the best for that?

Many thanks in advance for your answers.

 

[Chops]

Looking at my SL3's, it seems that by 1998 ML was using the Vifa drivers since that's what mine have. They certainly aren't bass shy either considering that's what some member here claim. In fact, these SL3's have just about as much bass output and extension as my NHT 2.9's, which use a I think either a Peerless or Foster 10" woofer in a much larger sealed enclosure.

Also, with all this talk about replacement drivers, no matter how close the T/S parameters are to the original, the passive crossover will still have to be tweaked for proper x-over point and integration to the panel. Granted, going the active crossover route is viable and could solve a lot of issues possibly easier, but then you have to consider the purchase of another amplifier, the crossover itself and extra cables, all of which add up to extra $$$.

One other thought... I know that Eminence is well known for making custom drivers for customers (though I'm sure there's probably a minimum order quantity or price point to meet, but not sure). Since Eminence were the ones ML went to for the original SL3 woofer, I'm sure Eminence has the driver specs archived somewhere and might possibly be willing to produce a small amount of them if there's a demand for them. This is probably a better solution than whatever driver that ML is now offering for a replacement.

Just a few thoughts...

 

[Tosh]

It's a pity you say the Scan-Speak Discovery 26W/4534G is not a drop-in replacement for your older SL3, as there are not that many 4 Ohm choices out there that are as cost-effective. Could your old ones be re-coned?

I don't suppose you can mount it from the inside? A router would be the tool to enlarge the existing counterbore.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Router_(woodworking)

But Yes, I will confirm that the 26W/4534G is the woofer I would use in any year SL3 (or Ascent).

 

[Nitram92]

Hi!
Thank you Chops and Tosh for your answers.
I guess I have the Eminence version of the woofers.
Re-coned: I don't know what it costs... An original but re-coned Eminence woofer would be better than a brand new Scan-speak 26W/4534G ?
Mounting it from the inside would need to open the back of the cabinet. It seems to be glued but maybe you have an idea for that. Anyway, would il be good for the sound? I mean, it may be designed to be attached from outside...

 

[Tosh]

The new Scanspeak woofers look like a no-brainer decision from over here, even if you could get a good deal on a recone and avoid shipping charges. But whatever you do (repair or replace), do for both woofers.
Right, they should be mounted from the outside.
The rear cover is just stuck to the weatherstripping.

 

[Nitram92]

Hi Tosh,

For my SL3 replacing by Scan-speak 26W/4534G00 was a good option. I had to use a router as advised (nice tool) to enlarge the hole.
For the Aerius it is an other story... http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?16969-Aerius-(not-i)-woofer-replacement

 

[Chops]

I didn't waste any time going straight to active xo on the bass for these

Tosh, you have a PM!

 

[Tosh]

fresh link:
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...very-26w/4534g-10-aluminum-cone-woofer-4-ohm/

 

[MickyP]

Just replaced my SL3 woofers with a pair of Scanspeak 26W4534G00s and noticed one of the old woofers was the same make and model and in very good condition. So this is on ebay if anyone wants a spare or has just one damaged one. I'm in the UK though.

 

[tooslowmonroe]

Thank you all for the wonderful insight. My SL3's lost a woofer and google got me here. I just replaced both woofers with the ScanSpeak noted above. For me, I was lucky and they were a plug-and-play replacement...maybe 10-15 minutes per tower taking my time. The SS seem to match well and vocal just fine with the panels. This was after the ARC (Anthem Room Correction)...I did not do any critical listening until I ran ARC as that is how I was listening prior.

Now, full disclosure, I run with a pair of 15" subs to help the bottom end...and I did do some listening with the subs turned off. I had to boost the bass +5 on the preamp to get the to boogie a little...without the boost they seemed a little dry (but so did the stock ML woofers) I'm lucky to have a dedicated listening room about 300 Ft^2.

Overall, very pleased with the sound and could not be happier that the SL3's are back to their glory.

I do have one stock ML woofer left, it is a cast basket. If someone needs it, shoot me a PM.

Thanks again for all the help! Y'all are great.

Associated equipment: Anthem Statement D2 Processor, Nakamichi PA-1 Power Amp, Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Table, Ortofon 2M Blue Cartridge, Pro-Ject Tube Box DS Pre-Amp (Mulland ECC83's) , Oppo Transport, 15" Dayton powered subs, ML SL3 (mains), ML Logos (C), ML Aerius i (surround)
Favorite Album so far: Yello, Toy

 

[JonFo]

^^^ tooslowmonroe , thanks for updating us on your experience. Good to hear it was a drop-in replacement for you, that will hopefully encourage others to update their woofers.

Oh, and those Yello albums make for nice demo content on a system like yours. If you DIY a bit, you might want to check out my thread on MidBass modules, they really make a ML setup rock.