Shun Mook

[Gordon Gray]

Justin,

I agree that products like Shun Mook are challenging.

Having said that, people earn respect from other members on any forum, which is something he has apparently failed to accomplish to date on the MLO forum.

As an aside, Ethan used to have his own specific "room treatment" section on the WBF homepage. That was discontinued by the moderators due to the conflicts and chaos he created with other forum members. And whenever he posts anymore on WBF, he gets slammed by the vast majority of other forum members.

Perhaps you like "lightning rods". Myself and others obviously don't.

Maybe something can be learned but I'm not holding my breath.

Gordon

 

[InterMechanico]

Fine, but after the point is made, let it go, and allow the conversation to return to the original subject. This particular participant is not questioning these products specifically, but rather every product in every thread that he considers un-measurable. I think most of us (certainly me) have doubts about the efficacy of the shun Mook disks, but at least we can discuss them with an open mind, or refrain from participating after our point has been made, should we have nothing further to add. I'm here to learn, and perhaps teach if I have some information that's needed by someone else. Preach rhymes with teach, but they're not synonymous. lol. This thread is about shun Mook disks, not room correction or abx testing or engineering. Or I may be wrong and not understanding this discussion fully. I'm sure the title saysShun Mook.

 

[bonzo]

And it's not about Port either, just sayin'

 

[User211]

Don't think I don't see your issues gentleman. I do. I'm not entirely certain what I can say beyond the points you've made.

 

[roberto]

 

[roberto]

All I am trying to explain it that this Lab made these tests, and their findings is what I do listen with the SMD...Happy listening!

 

[RUR]

Roberto, what lab is this (can you link?) and what is meant by "30dB Rise".

 

[roberto]

Here is the Phase difference...at the graphic looks that they really help to the music. Again, my dear friends, we have the benefit to use them or not. As I said at the beginning, some might listen what they do to the overall sound, and others still chuckles their teeth. I am glad that Bonzo is a SMD user. Bernard now has the bug! and me too. Happy listening!

For Rur...this is what I have: CLIO Application: Room and Building Acoustics, www.audiomatica.com/techresources.htm

http://shunmook.com/explained/HK-TN-0388- Shun Mook Mpingo Discs Acoustic Test -LH.pdf

 

[roberto]

Roberto, what lab is this (can you link?) and what is meant by "30dB Rise".

Hola Rur... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rise_time

 

[bonzo]

I have no idea what these tests mean and have looked at them the first time. I will sometime give Ken a call to understand them for geekiness sake. However happy to say my ears can make out the conclusions drawn there - 'more coherence' - take them off and the muddiness is easy to hear. 'More richness, full body, and comfort' - that too, also much deeper soundstage, and ability change the width and focus of the soundstage by turning the discs.

Wel, I bought 30. Plus 3 sets of the resonators (like supports) to place under my components. The guy who sold me the SMDs had 100. He replaced them with Synergistic Research ART because he considers the ART more neutral and the SMDs warmer. Confirmed by another guy who has both, plus the expensive Frank Tchang acoustic resonators. Confirmed by a guy who sells the Zilplex.

Possibly all of us have a confirmation bias that enables us, in different parts of the globe and with different systems, unrelated to each other, to hear the same thing with these various 'fraudulent' products. Either that, or maybe listening actually does lead to an experience which the non-listeners are in denial of in their urge to explain away the skepticism rather than simply having a free audition.

Justin, your room will benefit way more than mine, because it is smaller and narrower. Putting any of those in will it widen out to be like your living room. As you know auditioning the Zilplex from Greg and the SMDs is but a phone call away. But hey, it is downright embarassing to make the call for a resonating disc or a Tibetan bowl

 

[bonzo]

More crazy fellows http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ymisc&1105809080

 

[User211]

Well I'll fess up and say I don't understand those graphs. For harmonics, I'd expect to see a fundamental frequency input (say 1KHz) and the resulting harmonics (2k level, 3K level etc). I haven't a clue what they're really doing in those tests.

What's more, who did them? All I can see is some initials. And also, the paper is marked confidential, but is in the public domain, LOL.

Additionally, the rise time definition provided by Wiki has nothing to do with the "30DB rise" expressed in the graphs. Rise time is expressed as a time, and is not measured or expressed in decibels.

Once again, I do not doubt that these resonating products do something. I'd just like to see a paper that expressed clearly and without ambiguous BS how exactly they affect electronic circuits like solid state amplifiers.

With turntables, it is just increasing acoustic feedback, so that one is easy. I do not doubt that will have an effect, but it is one TT designers want to avoid as much as possible. Well, most of them anyway.

With tube based DACs - again those with tubes that display any hint of microphony, again that's easy. Same with tube based pre & power amps.

As to free space placement, well I guess the little buggers must just ring like f&*!.

Ken? What d'ya reckon?

 

[roberto]

Hola Justin. The discs are passive, not active. You do not feed anything through them. Try to demo them, and tell us what you think. Perhaps you might like them as Kedar and I do. And I did try to express the meaning of rise time, but I think, I was wrong. I think that what matters is, if you can listen a difference with them in your system. I will not harm any component, and you do not have to take anything out of your system. Just follow their instructions and you are done. As I always say, you could still say you do not like them, or perhaps you can be another enthusiast of the SMD. The only way is, to listen what they do to your system. Usually, when you demo them, strange things for good happens in the overall sound. I just took my guitars out of my room, and also took all my SMD. The sound of my system is good too. I did like what I did listen without the SMD. But when I went back again with them, little by little I got the bug again, and went bananas for them. I do like them that. My system with them is more 3D, and better stage, with more air between the instruments. Voices have less glare and I am getting the sense of being there, at the event. It is a nice tweak to have. I apologize for trying to express myself clearly, and I think that I am making a mess. I am forgetting all my electronic concepts, I think I should go to college again. Happy listening to all!

 

[User211]

Don't worry about it Roberto. If you like what they do it is all good. It is that simple

Me? I'm a guitars out of the room man myself. Well, my acoustic guitars, anyway.

If Kedar has 30 of them, he can post me 3 to try if he feels that way inclined and I'll do a Bernard.

 

[roberto]

Justin, you are a man of the truth! All your posts are always sincere and merely to help everybody out, and of course, because we have seeing and hearing tons of snake oil around, and we became skeptic when this came out. I believe in wood that resonates for good. Not all wood resonate. A reason why ebony is present most musical instruments like ******, clarinets, in the wind section, and all string instruments, including the harp, use ebony. It is not because it is a hard wood, it is because is has a pure tone. All the fingerboards in the fine instruments use ebony. And there are stronger and harder woods than ebony, but they do not sing the way of the ebony does. All violins, cellos, violas, double bass, guitars, pianos, use ebony. Why? Because it provides volume (SPL) to the instruments and a tonal balance that no other wood provide. If you take two guitars, one with Rose Wood and you use a Rose Wood neck, and another with ebony neck, you will choose the ebony, because of the tonal quality of the instrument. In other words, the ebony sings, resonates. The SMD has an inlaid work of Gaboon, another rare wood. Looking at a section of the wood it consists of thousands of tubes, or its cellular structure is like a micro-sized pipe organ. This tubes are oriented. They cut the wood in a such way that makes them to resonate along with the music. I met them in one CES show in Las Vegas. They show me a little trick here too. You can weight the SMD and flipped it over on your palm. And if you are sensitive to this, the logo side of the SMD feels like if it weights more than the other side...and this is because of the orientation of these tubes. Odd? Non sense? yes, but try it, many of us had done this, and we feel this. Even that you are not looking. You can tell when the logo is facing down or up. Funny, strange, mambo jambo? The final judge is your ears. Trust in them, listen carefully, and voila!, you are hooked as we are! Again, I apologize again, trying to explain this, if I am making a mess. Happy listening!

 

[Bernard]

If Kedar has 30 of them, he can post me 3 to try if he feels that way inclined and I'll do a Bernard.

That sounds like a great idea. Besides the triangular arrangement suggested by Roberto, try the disks on your CDP oriented per the PDF posted by Kedar. I'm curious as to what you think; I find that they definitely do something positive.

I have yet to try them on my turntable.

 

[RUR]

Ken? What d'ya reckon?

Yeah, they appear to be harmonic distortion, and the manual says that "30dB Rise" indicates that the SPL figures have been offset by +30dB.

The "differences" are small, and as much increase, in small bandwidths, as decrease. Since most of this will fall below typical residential noise floor once we deduct 30dB, I doubt most, if any of it, is audible. In addition, we don't know how same-sized objects made of other materials would measure. Plastic? Marshmallow? Same? Different? We don't know.

Can't say much beyond this as the company website ist kaput, so the only CLIO 10 manual I could find comes from a mirror site and so shows blank graphics :-(

Finally, we've no idea who made the measurements, how familiar they were with the SW, or what the mic variability might be.

 

[bonzo]

If Kedar has 30 of them, he can post me 3 to try if he feels that way inclined and I'll do a Bernard.

Justin, I will post you 15 to try out. 3 on your dac, 3 on your pre, 1 each on your panel, 3 each on your monos, and 1 in the middle of the speakers.

If you like them try Martin @ Audio reference, and also get from him the shun mook valve resonators to put on top of your valves.

Not sure when I will post them though, anywhere from 2 weeks to June - depending on my demos. Also by June, I will probably end up with the Analysis Audio Omega or the Verity, the way things are going, so you might want to come over for a listen.

 

[roberto]

Hola Muchachos!...and thanks for the offer Kedar, because I am too away... if anybody will be closer to me, I will love to demo them. As far as I know, we have about 10 Martin Logan users with SMD here in Costa Rica. Some of them use only the SMD, others have also the diamond resonators. I do not think that they were influenced by me and spent the money on the product. I do not make any money here, LOL. I am just a believer and also like to share this wonderful tweak. Please, share with us your opinion after you had tried in your system. Happy listening!

 

[User211]

Don't buy anything before Munich, LOL.

Could do worse than the Omegas, and they may suit your music/tastes better. And at least you can actually buy a pair without waiting years

Look forward to playing with the discs.

Justin, I will post you 15 to try out. 3 on your dac, 3 on your pre, 1 each on your panel, 3 each on your monos, and 1 in the middle of the speakers.

If you like them try Martin @ Audio reference, and also get from him the shun mook valve resonators to put on top of your valves.

Not sure when I will post them though, anywhere from 2 weeks to June - depending on my demos. Also by June, I will probably end up with the Analysis Audio Omega or the Verity, the way things are going, so you might want to come over for a listen.