prodigy - small room

[Bruce Weiland]

Hello to all,

My local dealer has loaned me his demo pair of Prodigy. My room is long, 21 feet, with an L shape at the back end. The system "shoots" down the long leg of the L toward the dog leg. The room is 93" tall and only 10' 6" wide. I have some home made 11” diameter ceiling to floor tube traps in each front corner. The traps flank a 8’ wide equipment/record/CD rack and storage unit.

To my knowledge the speaks have 30 to 50 hours of “break in” in the show room. I doubt they were ever played beyond medium levels.

The lower mid range (bottom of most male voices) was very fat. I have played with placement a lot and was able to reduce the effect by about 75%.

The speakers (center of the stators) are currently about 7' 4" into the room and 28" in from the side walls. They are angle at 45 degrees which puts the edge of the woofer enclosure about an inch from the wall.

This placement has tamed the upper bass/lower mid range the most. For critical listening and to just get immersed in the experience, I sit about 18" behind a line drawn between the middle of the stators. This last few inches of the stators just before one gets to the inside edges is aimed directly at my ears. This near field listening position over comes a lot of room interaction and allows the hearing of much more inner detail without tremendous volume levels. However, I still do listen at relative loud levels (90+ db) often.

This position gives an amazing sound stage that for many recordings is 180 degrees and extends a few feet past all the walls. The image is fairly well focused, although not as pin point as my custom mounted Script i. But then the Scripts aren't as sweet, don't play as loud effortlessly and of course have no really bottom (they are used with subs).

I am looking for additional tweaks to tame the upper bass. I want to keep these speakers, if I can convince my wife.

I just received a Sonic Euphoria PLC yesterday. So, CD player (Carver 490t with NOS Ediswan 6922) through Van den Hull The First Mk II to the SE PLC.

Then a pair of VdnH The First Metal Screen to one channel of a pair of George Kaye modified Moscode 600s to Anti Cables through Zero Autoformers for the stators.

A pair of Johnson Silver interconnects to the second half of each Moscode and a pair of Audioquest CV-6 (on loan, just so I could vertically by amp) direct to the woofer sections.

OK. Fire away, and thanks.

Bruce

 

[Audiophiliac]

I am not sure I can help you, but I like your style. Your "nearfield" listening habits are rather "unorthodox", especially probably in the ML world. I love it. I say do what you like. I am sure it sounds great too.

 

[Joey_V]

From your description, your listening position seems to be pretty cramped. So you sit very very close to your Logans I see? Why not sit further back from the speaker plane and toe in less? Seems to me like you're treating your Prodigys like headphones.

 

[Bruce Weiland]

Audiophiliac and Joey,

Thank you both for the reply.

Joey, yes you are correct, I am using them as "BIG" headphones. However, because I am not completely "between" the speakers, I get a realistic image rather than the "in the headphones" image.

I have tried several different listening positions. Including what you have suggested. The mid bass/lower midrange bump is worse with the standard listening position, sound stage not as large (image only slightly outside the edges of the speakers) and some ambience of the recording is lost.

Additionally, nearfield listening allows several advantages; inner detail is more easily heard without high volume levels, room interaction is reduced substantially. I began listening nearfield several years ago. I am addicted now. Distant listening leaves out too much information for me.

I was really wondering if anyone had, had a similar frequency bump problem that they were able to tame.

Again, thanks for the reply.

Bruce

 

[Audiophiliac]

Have you tried them on the long wall?

 

[Bruce Weiland]

Good point. I have not. However, I am afraid that the SAF (spousal acceptance factor) would not work at all. That does not mean I will not try it.

I am not sure why I didn't think of that. I guess the SAF kept it outside my thinking. Thank you.

 

[kwr]

Hi Bruce,

I think the fundamental problem you have is that your room has dimensions that will give you some big peaks. The fundamental resonant frequency supported by your room length is approx. 27 Hz and the fundamental resonance supported by the width is approx 54 Hz. You will (theoretically) get further big peaks centered at 108 Hz, 216 Hz, 532 Hz.

Essentially to minimise this you will want your listening position and speakers to sit in the nulls. This is one of the fundamental ideas in smoothing bass response in a room ie not putting the speaker at a point where it will support the natural resonance of a room.

I suspect you will still have a problem as the room will resonate strongly due to the axial waves supporting each other. I think adding bass traps will help a bit but ultimately you will need a room correction device - Driverack,DEQX, Tact, Rives etc.

There is a lot of advice re bass traps on Audio Asylum with Jon Risch and Ethan Winer able to assist with room related problems.

Kevin

 

[Bruce Weiland]

Kevin,

Thank you for the calculations and direction to some trap advice. I am reticent to use an active device. I am finding the simpler the chain, the more information I hear from the CD or vinyl source. I will, however, research the active devices that you recommended. I only have cursory knowledge about two of the devices you recommended.

Again, thank you for your time and recommendations.

Bruce

 

[Bruce Weiland]

So, I will reply to my own thread.

It is getting better. I have tried positions all over the room and bi-wire, vertical bi-amp, and on and on and on.

I am getting near the target.

I am back listening nearfield. The speakers are about 7 feet from the front wall angled/towed-in at slightly greater than 45 degrees.

Then things like brass under the CD player instead of an inner tube.

ML spikes on the Prodigy instead of the plastic/metal posts that come mounted.

Single run of wire, running full range.

I have a few more tweaks to try, this is very livable. It currently tends to make "fat" discs sound fatter, but well recorded and EQed discs are just a little "warmer" than one might expect.

I will eventually include a picture or two.

Again, thanks to those that have made comments.

Bruce