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[Chrispb1]

Yes, the SS 101 series was surpassed by the SS-103. Basically they're the same base circuit, no major changes there. However, it's the Class A bias that has been significantly been modified on the 103 series. It has far more power and control in the Output stages, thanks to having a higher Class A power stage. These can hold very high levels without flinching one bit! Thus, when driving high performance speakers, such as the CLX's, the presentation is awe-inspiring!

Similar case with Pass Labs "XA" series. The XA series is the only category in the Pass Labs line up that can hold pure Class A for difficult loads. Even at very high levels, with vast dynamic swings and blistering transients, the XA series delivers supremely well. Same goes with any of Gryphon's top line gear, such as the Mephisto and Antileon, high Class A bias, no issues handling serious impedence swings of full range stats.

However, like I said, you'd need to audition first to choose your personal preference. I nor anyone on this forum can tell you what YOU like. Only you can determine that. Have also heard the Vitus SS101 series, it is quite tops indeed but that 103 series takes that performance to another level, and it's not marginal.

If you do come across any of the Pass Labs XA series (XA30.8, 60.8, 100.8, 160.8 & 200.8) for a reasonable price, any of these would be your end game amplifiers. I have a good mate of mine who uses the XA30.8 to drive his CLX's. Rated at just 30w pure Class A, it is one of the best I've heard to date. It was actually after listening to his system comprising of CLX's, Leben (tube preamp), T+A Digital player and the Pass Labs XA30.8 that I realised you dont have to have high power. Rather, high current with highly stable voltage is the key. And many so called high powered amps with 100's and 100's of watts fall terribly short. They simply run out of puff! Although on specs, they look great. Specs are very misleading... a lot to do with marketing and not actual performance.
Our human hearing cannot listen to 100's or 1000's of watts, we'd go dumb & deaf! It only takes a handful of watts for playback at realistic levels, that's only around 45-50w the most. After all, this is domestic hifi and not rock concert levels. That's distortion!

Cheers and let us know how your quest goes.
RJ

Again, fabulous information. Thank you RJ

Àttn: Chris

Just a point to add, and worth noting since I've experienced the exact thing; when it comes to amplification and especially for CLX's, which are high performance speakers, getting the right match is essential if you want your CLX's to perform optimally.

Therefore, take your time and audition as much as possible before making your decision. Also draw up a short list of 5 and choose the top 3 from that list that suits your needs, budget and overall value. From 3 top favourites it's much easier to choose one because all three are equally good. It's much harder to choose one from ten...

At the end of the day, the CLX's are ML's top electrostats ever made, sadly now no more. They deserve the best money can buy and obviously what you can afford. You don't want to be in a situation where your system is "over-speakered and under-amped"... sadly I've come across this very phenomenon many times, and not just with stats but other types of designs as well. Over-amped and under-speakered is ok, since you can always upgrade to far better speakers. However, in terms of changing or upgrading amplifiers, is not easy and you can lose money on it.

I've even questioned many owners on this very topic, as to why on earth they went for high performance speakers and ran out of budget on amplification... their simple answer was that they were crazy over a certain type of speaker but later realised they couldn't fork out the extra dollars required for proper amplification. In which case no point of going for such types of speaker systems in the first place! Just settle for something on the middle or entry level and work your way upwards, not the other way round.

So, in your case there's no rush. Just take your time and you will come across that perfect amplifier to drive your CLX's to glorious levels. It may even take a few years... in my case it took me 15yrs to get this! I do realise how critical it is to acquire the right kind of amplifiers.
Cheers mate, and enjoy those finest tunes!
Woof! RJ

Thank you RJ, though at 67 I don’t knows I’ve got 15 years to choose . Many amps and speakers have graced my music room and I know the sound I’m looking for, but getting it with new and challenging speakers, as you say, takes time and effort, but that’s part of the joy of this rewarding hobby, right?

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes of course mate.
Definitely not necessary to keep searching for 15yrs... hell no. What I actually meant was, I already had a top notch system back in 2004 (Apogee Diva's, CJ's Premier 8A amplifiers and the original ART preamp). That was it, end game for me.
Then we decided to migrate to Aus because former home town (Colombo) didn't have much of a future. So I had to sell off the entire rig and start all over again. Bought piece by piece over the years, plus going through various Maggie's, Quads and Wilson's and finally arriving at CLX's, that took me 15yrs.

Funny thing though, I'm also on a quest for SS amplifiers as an alternative. Since having the whole rig entirely based on tubes, and tube maintenance is getting costly... I'm thinking of downsizing in a few years. Will probably just use a top end SS integrated or stereo power amp and retire. My current favourite is the Burmester 032 but it only offers XLR connections. I can't use my phono & TT rig, however my Esoteric digital player can accommodate XLR, so no issues there. I really do like vinyl, so Burmester might not do it. Will have to see.
Then there's Pass Labs, which I know quite well and the XA series is a superb match with CLX's. Also, Pass Labs accepts both SE and XLR connections.
So I might just settle there. Anyway, I've got time so no rush, looking to finalise in a few years.

Until such time, I'm enjoying those fine CJ tooobs. Just awesome on stats, gotta love it!
Cheers, RJ

 

[Chrispb1]

The very last pair here (Aus Down unda) sold in Melbourne for 50grand! $AUD. That particular owner also had other top flight panel type speakers, such as Maggie 20.7's and Audio Analysis Omega's. Once he got the CLX's, he sold off the others straight away. Then, there's a good mate of mine who bought Apogee Diva's and gave them to Graz for a full refurb project that took nearly 3 years! In the meantime, he got a pair of CLX Art's in Cherry Red. However, once the required refurb project on the Apogee's were completed, he couldn't keep two large panels, so he sold off the CLX's! That very same pair with cherry red finish, went through two other owners, and now sits in one of the guys lounge rooms just idling. Simply because they don't have the adequate space to make full justice of these awesome stats. In fact, neither of these guys had the adequate space or proper room set-up. Although they had top flight gear, the CLX's could not perform to their optimum. And when I mean top flight gear, I'm referring to CJ GATS2 preamp, the Gryphon Mephisto power amp, digital playback systems by Playback Design, Ayon 400w tube monoblocks with some very pricey cables, and the list goes on... regardless of this lofty gear, the rooms were all wrong for CLX's.

I learnt a big lesson then, the room is just as important as any other component in your system. If you get the room all wrong, no matter how much you spend on lofty gear, it won't do justice in speaker performance. No chance Charlie
Anyway, those CLX's are still sitting there in fine cherry red... idling and waiting for the right owner. If I were plain silly and didn't know what to do with my money, I'd actually buy that pair! Then I'd ask myself, now what the heck am I going to do with two pairs of CLX's??? Ah! One color for summer and one color for winter. That's about right!

Cheers, RJ

Tried 12 yr old Nat Magma SE mono. At first too polite but after few day of extended listening they improved dramatically but still a little soft in the bass, until one stated with a nasty intermittent hum that eventually when to a horrible squealing noise, so that’s being returned. But very excited to report 20 month old Vitus SM-011 mono’s arriving tomorrow hoping they’ll be powerful enough, what do you think?

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Oh yeah! Look out Charlie!
Get ready for a roller coaster ride. Those Vitus monoblocks will change the way you listen to music, plus will even enrich your life! I'm not kidding. They are fabulous!!!

These are the Signature series of Vitus, which is their top of the line, all Class A circuits. I believe it should also have a switching feature from Class A to AB if the owner wishes to try something different. Although these are now surpassed by Vitus's latest SS-103 series, which also come in a monoblock version, whatever said and done, this particular series is still superb!

The NAT tube amps are no match at this level. The NAT SET monoblocks are still very good but better suited to easy loads, such as horns or speakers with very high efficiency ratings, ideally over 100dB. Although, many years ago I've heard a pair of NAT monoblocks driving Apogee's full range ribbons. Not sure exactly which NAT monos those were but they had plenty of current to handle Apogee's, which in fact are notorious to drive. Most amplifiers go up in smoke!

The other thing is, not all tooob amps are built to high standards for optimal high current capacity and highly stable voltages. The ones that I've owned that drove full range stats and ribbons effectively were; Manley Labs, VTL, VAC, Melos, ARC, Ayon, Jadis, and Conrad johnson. All of these makes have tremendous power supplies that hold very high voltages and at the same time offer high current capacity. Apart from high power/watts of course, it's mainly these two factors that will drive and control stats or difficult loads with ease. So absolutely no issues with these ones.

Anyway, leaving all those tube designs aside... now you have one of the best possible combinations in sheer power amplification, the Vitus SM monoblocks! I'm really excited about these and admire everything they're capable of. Like I said, these will change your life. Well done matey! Truly fab!

Please do report back when all is settled. Just a quick note: I personally preferred the Class A setting, since Class A brings out the very best of all Vitus is known for. However, you may also prefer the Class AB settings since this output bias provides a warmer atmosphere and one that you can listen for endless hours. On Class A bias, the performance and presentation is like Rocket fuel! So no time to really relax... it's a rush!

Cheers, and enjoy those finest tunes!
WOOF! RJ

 

[Leporello]

All of these makes have tremendous power supplies that hold very high voltages and at the same time offer high current capacity. Apart from high power/watts of course, it's mainly these two factors that will drive and control stats or difficult loads with ease

With hollow state electronics, a high quality OT is critical. Without that, driving a difficult load such as an ESL, all the voltage and current won't help. You need a transformer that not only reflects a low effective impedance to the speaker but has low enough phase shift so that negative feedback can be applied to reduce the impedance further while maintaining stability. Otherwise, when your CLX drops to 0.2 ohm, you get no treble. As for single-ended flea power amps, I wouldn't think of it. Maybe with original Quads, but not ML's.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

With hollow state electronics, a high quality OT is critical. Without that, driving a difficult load such as an ESL, all the voltage and current won't help. You need a transformer that not only reflects a low effective impedance to the speaker but has low enough phase shift so that negative feedback can be applied to reduce the impedance further while maintaining stability. Otherwise, when your CLX drops to 0.2 ohm, you get no treble. As for single-ended flea power amps, I wouldn't think of it. Maybe with original Quads, but not ML's.

Yes very true.

In fact those chaps at ARC, VTL, Manley and CJ, design their gear to drive virtually any load. To this date, I've not come across any of these that fell short of driving very difficult loads, such as big Apogee's, mighty Infinity's and the notorious VMPS speakers that were an absolute nightmare to drive. No longer made, similar lines of Dun Levy's and Thiel's. Those were the glory days where Krell, Bryston, Sumo and Hafler used to ruled, and only a handful of tube amps could compete, ARC, VTL and CJ were amongst the best. With their extraordinary power supplies, they didn't flinch one bit!

Big tube amps are costly and the top of the line models coming from these very US icons now cost a bloody fortune! So, in order to drive your full range stats to glorious levels, leaving aside high priced tube gear, there are many SS options available at just a fraction of the cost. Starting with Parasound, Anthem, Magtech... and all the way upto Jeff Rowland, Mark Levinson, Dan D's designs, Pass Labs etc., these particular Vitus monoblocks that Chris has purchased are pretty much end game. He's set for life!

These Vitus amps, and especially their Signature series are not just power amps, they're extraordinary amplifiers. He's truly hit the top with this choice. It doesn't get any better than this, unless you're going to spend another 100grand on top for marginal improvements.
The Dartzeel monoblocks (200grand)
Dan D's Relentless monoblocks (220grand)
Goldmun monoblocks (250grand)
Then slightly under the Gryphon Mephisto and Antileon monoblocks another 100grand plus... why bother? Those Vitus monos are good enough!

Respect & hats off to Chris!
Cheers RJ

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Attn: Chris mate,

Did those beautiful Vitus monoblocks arrive as yet?
What's the latest update on set-up and how's it matching with your gear that is synergy wise?
Also, how do you feel the grip and control on the CLX's? Do you prefer Class A or AB?

Cheers, RJ

 

[Chrispb1]

Hi there RJ.

Yes, listening as I write. Mixed feelings right now. They didn’t like my Nat Magnetostat pre much, better with my Mark Levinson 523 pre. Both class A and AB sound good, different, but good. I don’t like the “rock” mode at all, it spreads the sound stage to wide in a strange, to my ears, way. On high volume dynamic electronic music they sound fabulous, but on jazz with medium volume, like Patricia Barber or George Michael, it’s like there is a soft focus filter on the sound, there’s more detail, but a bit lack lustre if I turn the volume up things get a bit harsh and that special airiness I get with tube is absent.
Cheers Chris

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Ah! Yes that's definitely the case when using SS preamps with this particular set of amplifiers from Vitus.

I forget to mention, when I initially auditioned these, the set-up had a top line CJ preamp, the GATS2. On another occasion with the SS-103, it was partnered with CJ's ART88 (top of the line). The 103 series addresses this harshness issue and has a higher Class A bias output, so it controls much better. Nonetheless, tube preamps will take that edge off harshness.


I had the opportunity of listening to the full line up, upto the SM-103 monoblocks, which are my overall favourites of the Vitus line. Although those particular monoblocks are truly spectacular and very top dollar, it's the SS-103 that captures my attention. Being a stereo power amp, it gets everything right.

Leaving this series aside, that harshness of the SM-011... that's the rocket fuel I'm referring to, it's a sudden burst of tremendous acceleration that in fact, is quite harsh. Like i said, that can only be tammed with tube preamp. You'll notice the difference straight away.

Anyway, give the amps some time to settle in, and use the Class AB settings, this output should be less of a rush. As for those extended airy highs and lush midrange, well what can I say, that's the very reason I continue to use and put up with all the issues of owning tube gear. As you know, I've got a full array of tube amps from phonostage to power amps, it's all tooob top to bottom. I've had the urge to change over to SS, and I'm currently on a quest for that perfect SS amp. BUT, they can't do what tubes offer, and that is compared to top tube designs like conrad johnson, which is extremely hard to beat. CJ is in a class of its own. So, I end up putting up with all the tooob fuss, simply because it just sounds right!

The Mark Levinson preamp will suit well as a preamp but it won't do what top flight tube preamps offer. You'll have to compare a few and see how you go. Hopefully, after the Vitus monoblocks settle in, maybe that harshness may edge off a bit.

Cheers mate, and enjoy those fine tunes.
RJ

 

[Chrispb1]

Ah! Yes that's definitely the case when using SS preamps with this particular set of amplifiers from Vitus.

I forget to mention, when I initially auditioned these, the set-up had a top line CJ preamp, the GATS2. On another occasion with the SS-103, it was partnered with CJ's ART88 (top of the line). The 103 series addresses this harshness issue and has a higher Class A bias output, so it controls much better. Nonetheless, tube preamps will take that edge off harshness.


I had the opportunity of listening to the full line up, upto the SM-103 monoblocks, which are my overall favourites of the Vitus line. Although those particular monoblocks are truly spectacular and very top dollar, it's the SS-103 that captures my attention. Being a stereo power amp, it gets everything right.

Leaving this series aside, that harshness of the SM-011... that's the rocket fuel I'm referring to, it's a sudden burst of tremendous acceleration that in fact, is quite harsh. Like i said, that can only be tammed with tube preamp. You'll notice the difference straight away.

Anyway, give the amps some time to settle in, and use the Class AB settings, this output should be less of a rush. As for those extended airy highs and lush midrange, well what can I say, that's the very reason I continue to use and put up with all the issues of owning tube gear. As you know, I've got a full array of tube amps from phonostage to power amps, it's all tooob top to bottom. I've had the urge to change over to SS, and I'm currently on a quest for that perfect SS amp. BUT, they can't do what tubes offer, and that is compared to top tube designs like conrad johnson, which is extremely hard to beat. CJ is in a class of its own. So, I end up putting up with all the tooob fuss, simply because it just sounds right!

The Mark Levinson preamp will suit well as a preamp but it won't do what top flight tube preamps offer. You'll have to compare a few and see how you go. Hopefully, after the Vitus monoblocks settle in, maybe that harshness may edge off a bit.

Cheers mate, and enjoy those fine tunes.
RJ

Hiya RJ
Just back from 5 hours of Argentine tango dancing with aching feet….. Switched back my Line Magnetic 845 Premium using it as a power amp with the Levinson and it sounds, well, just right. Even though it doesn’t hit as hard as the Vitus, it’s so much more moving. I want to love the Vitus but, like you I think I’m wedded to tubes.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes mate, can certainly relate to that!

With SS Class A designs, that also use AB switching, the circuits are old school, typical Class A brute force. Hence, it's their nature to hit hard. Their virtues are within- dynamics, power, drive, accuracy and control, and those performance factors are found in every typical Class A designed SS amplifiers.

Then comes AB, which is bit softer but still has quality power and plenty of brute force. There are only a handful of such designs that tend to keep things slightly more pleasing and enjoyable to listen to for extended hours, otherwise with Class A all the way, it may cause headaches or listener fatigue. Such brands that are more pleasing:
McIntosh, Pass Labs, Jeff Rowland, Burmester and Dartzeel to name a few. I've found that these are not the typical brute force Class A topology, and they sound quite musical.

Nonetheless, whatever SS designs out there, some of the well designed ones can match the musicality factor and finesse of tubes. The truth is, there's actually nothing good about tubes. They're highly inaccurate, they dissipate an awful lot of unwanted heat/energy that goes to waste, they hiss & fart... and need replacing when their lifespan is up or in certain cases, they just fail! However, when they do behave, which takes time and effort, oh my! Do they deliver a level of fine musicality with finesse! The presentation is with full 3D holographic detail, the soundstage depth is endless, extended airy highs with lush midrange, and well defined bass, not too deep and earth shattering but very natural and musical. Tubes also have an enveloping affect, where the music sort of wraps around you, that type of warmth SS cannot do. It is these attributes that become highly addictive and totally engaging, and every presentation of recorded playback is a fully immersive experience. That's exactly what you've got!
That level is nearly untouchable.

Some of the best amplifiers that money can buy are all based on tubes: Kondo Audio Note Kogaru, Ongaku, Aries Cerat, VAC Statements, VTL, ARC and CJ design are amongst the top of the line. When any of these are partnered with high performance speakers or stats, especially full range stats, there's simply no turning back to SS. No matter how fussy they are. As the years go by, you learn to put up with those issues and get round technical stuff to better approach foreseeable tube issues.

Having said that, those makes I just mentioned on tube gear cost a bloody fortune! So you really don't need to spend truck loads to achieve high quality tube finesse. There are others available, such as Jadis, Cary, McIntosh, Quad, Manley Labs, Prima Luna and Line Magnetic as great examples of vfm. So, if you really do prefer tooobs then that is your personal preference. No one on this forum can determine your preferences, and if tubes make you happy, plus fully satisfied, there's nothing further to add.

As far as SS designs are concerned, like I said you can spend over 200grand on SS amps and still find something lacking. It's not the fault of SS, it's just their nature. Now that you have the Vitus SM-011, there's simply no need to upgrade any further. In terms of SS this is as good as it gets. Sure there are a host of other flavours but you have to stick with your personal preference.

Speaking of Line Magnetic, I think they also have larger tube amp offerings. When driving stats full range with tubes, apart from high current and stable voltages, high power is also needed to fully grip stats. In my experience, having owned a vast number of tube gear, I would confidently recommend anything within the 100w/ch into 4 Ohms range would be the safest point for tube amps. Sure you can use lower powered tube amps but you're putting undue stress on the tubes lifespan, thus won't last too long. Apart from high powered tube stereo power amps, monoblocks are ideal for driving stats or difficult loads because each monoblock is dedicated to handle only one channel. It's power supplies are not shared, tube life is extended and channel separation is superb! But this is not a must... just an ideal config.

See how you go, there are plenty of fantastic opportunities when it comes to Supreme tube gear, they all sound quite different but at the end of the day, you'll have to determine which type you prefer.
Cheers, RJ

 

[Chrispb1]

Time for an update, I’ll keep it brief. Very disappointingly the Vitus (I so wanted them to play beautiful music) did nothing for me. I negotiated a fair deal on the broken NAT magma se mono blocks, found a great valve amp engineer not too far away and without assistance from NAT they are up and running and well, please lord, may they keep working, because in my 40 year journey, well, you know the rest

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Ah! Excellent! Hopefully those NAT amplifiers will serve well. Certainly looks like you've found the right type of sound!

That's what I've been always emphasising, it's not the gear, price or glowing reviews... it's highly personal and only you can determine what you like, no one else can.

Cheers matey, and do enjoy those finest tunes!
Woof! RJ