New Impression 11A's

[Hear Here]

so effectively you're dealing with a width of 12'6", the 11's will be just fine. As for not wanting open space behind them,100% false, min of 2' out from the wall, 4-6' ideal.

By not sounding good where there's no wall reasonably close behind them, I mean that in my room where there's 12 ft behind one and 15 ft behind the other speaker and the wall is at an angle so doesn't reflect any of the back-firing sound from this range of ML (50 % of the total emitted sound), they will not sound anywhere near as good as they do in conventional rooms with just a few feet behind the speakers. Peter

 

[twich54]

By not sounding good where there's no wall reasonably close behind them, I mean that in my room where there's 12 ft behind one and 15 ft behind the other speaker and the wall is at an angle so doesn't reflect any of the back-firing sound from this range of ML (50 % of the total emitted sound), they will not sound anywhere near as good as they do in conventional rooms with just a few feet behind the speakers. Peter

Peter, I know, after seeing your room there's no good reason for owning di-pole speakers !

 

[Hear Here]

Yes, but

Peter, I know, after seeing your room there's no good reason for owning di-pole speakers !

It appeared from one or two replies that people had misinterpreted my conclusion that MLs need a wall reasonably close behind them to sound their best.

The odd thing (and to my cost) is that it was here on this forum that people reckoned my room would be great for MLs before I bought them over a year ago. Now I just want to forewarn others with rooms where they plan to place MLs well forward (that means many feet) of the back wall may also be disappointed. Peter

 

[twich54]

Peter, after seeing your room over on the 'Shark' forum I can't imagine anyone here, at least those of us that know Logans, or any di-pole for that matter, would recommend a mid-room set up. Regardless, good luck with your new Avantgarde's !

 

[Hear Here]

Peter, after seeing your room over on the 'Shark' forum I can't imagine anyone here, at least those of us that know Logans, or any di-pole for that matter, would recommend a mid-room set up. Regardless, good luck with your new Avantgarde's !

Thanks. Strange thing was that my Quad 2905s sounded very good here. A local guy who has Quad 2905s himself thought so too and this prompted me towards the much more attractive MLs. Without checking back, I can't say for certain whether it was this forum or the AVS ML Group, or even ML themselves who said 13As would shine in my room, but these recommendations, plus showroom demos, plus rave reviews led me to purchase. Certainly no one advised me against. I'm sure they will find a new owner soon who's room they will sound fabulous in! Peter

 

[zigman]

Other than room dimensions and placement, I have found the biggest single impact of any component is the amp. I have a pair of 11As and have gone through a few amps and cables. An amp with enough power reserves work like magic in my opinion. I went from a McIntosh mc452 (too warm) to a Luxman 509X and lost fullness and bass. I replaced the 509X with a Vitus RI-101 and it was like adding two subwoofers in the room, not to mention getting some amazing clarity without losing mids. No other change in the system between the Luxman and the Vitus. The thicker gauge the cable the more 3D sound and bass you get (though it all depends on what kind of cable of course).

 

[peacefulcargo]

Have you thought about moving the 13's for that size room, 11's can of course work depending on your proximity. I always felt there was something about the 13s that I really liked and that was having listened to the 9's,11's,13's ... I never spent enough time with the 15's to come away with a view.

 

[Mirolab]

Having a big beefy amp on M-L's is not about playing loud. It's about having it sound big & solid at normal volumes. Electrostats present a very weird load to an amp, and the bigger the amp, the less it is bothered by the reactive load. I would not recommend the Parasound A23 either... it would be "just OK" with limited dynamics, compared to the A21. I'm using a Bryston 4B-ST, and very happy with the combination.

 

[twich54]

Actually the 'look' that electrostatics present to an amplifier is a capacitive one.

 

[ttocs]

You're both right. Here's an interesting read written by Roger Sanders which explains in pretty basic terms how wacky stats are in their relationship with amplifiers. Also, by inference, it gives some good ideas of what to look for in an amp.
Electrostatic Amplifiers by Roger Sanders Of InnerSound, Inc.

 

[Hear Here]

Peter, after seeing your room over on the 'Shark' forum I can't imagine anyone here, at least those of us that know Logans, or any di-pole for that matter, would recommend a mid-room set up. Regardless, good luck with your new Avantgarde's !

I've looked back at my earlier threads and found these 2 old threads. The first was posted when I was thinking in terms of Summit X rather than 13A, but they are much the same animal in design terms. You were the first to comment and I don't see any warning about distance from the rear (behind the speaker) wall.

https://www.martinloganowners.com/threads/soon-to-be-a-summit-x-owner-–-probably.17280/
My second thread was started when my 13As were on order and I was asking predictions on how they may sound. After they arrived and as the thread developed, I reported on my findings, all with lots of constructive help from members here, but eventually, despite a visit from the distributor, numerous amp changes, running PBK and changing toe-in, tilt and feet, they never sounded as they should. All pretty disappointing.

https://www.martinloganowners.com/t...ers-–-predictions-please-and-questions.17914/
As I said somewhere, it just goes to show how important it is to get speakers into one's own home for an extended trial before committing to purchase. Room acoustics can be and often are far more important to how a speaker sounds than the choice of amp.

Peter

 

[twich54]

Peter, your last sentence speaks 'volumes' !

 

[Lightloopy]

Agree with Peter that trying new speakers in your room is very important. That has been one of the main reasons I have not replaced my SL3. I don't want to bring a 10K speaker home and be underwhelmed. I even thought about taking my amps in to the store. But as Peter says, it ain't the same and can be a game changer when you get it home.
I wanted to add that in my experience the amp turned out to be just as important. These speakers reveal significant differences in upstream choices.

 

[Hear Here]

Peter, your last sentence speaks 'volumes' !

Yes, but not a suggestion in any of the numerous replies to my questions in those threads that MLs wouldn't sound good with no wall behind them.

Commercial reviews of equipment are often dismissed as being biased or influenced by advertisers and manufacturers, so we are encouraged to get first-hand advice and guidance from existing owners in places like this, or from others who should offer genuine and unbiased advice. That's why I came here and I appreciated much of what I read (good stuff about amplifiers, tilt, toe-in, etc), but the crucial warning about the need to harvest much of the energy projecting back from stat speakers was conspicuously absent - in fact the lack of a rear wall was suggested as an advantage!

No problem but, as with the OP of this thread, I'd like others considering MLs to be aware that they may be disappointed in large rooms where the speakers are placed well forward (probably more than 6 ft or so) of the rear wall. Peter

 

[Hear Here]

Agree with Peter that trying new speakers in your room is very important. That has been one of the main reasons I have not replaced my SL3. I don't want to bring a 10K speaker home and be underwhelmed. I even thought about taking my amps in to the store. But as Peter says, it ain't the same and can be a game changer when you get it home.
I wanted to add that in my experience the amp turned out to be just as important. These speakers reveal significant differences in upstream choices.

I suspect that changing from one model within a range of similar models (eg Summit X to 11A, Quad 63 to 2912, or Avantgarde Uno to Duo) should be a move to be pretty confident with. The TYPE of speaker and its characteristics will be similar - just better - and the house sound of the brand should still be there. So buying used in particular should be painless and rewarding.

It's switching from one type to another (eg horns to stats) where massive changes in sound quality (better you hope but a fair chance of worse) are quite likely.

Yes, I agree that amps are very important but they can be home demo'd or bought and resold (if buying used) without massive upheaval or cost - rather different from the speaker decision situation. I bought or borrowed a dozen amps over 18 months to improve the sound from my speaker systems (for my AG horns and ML stats) and lost little or nothing on the ones bought used. Amps can be changed relatively easily, but room characteristics are something your are more-or-less stuck with. Peter

 

[Marty1]

Installation is finally complete: Samsung Q70 85" TV, Parasound 21+power amp, Yamaha RXA 1080 receiver, Innuos Zen music server, Martin Logan ESL center speaker, Martin Logan 11A's, ML Dynamo 400 sub, ML Motion EMR in ceiling for the rears, and ML EM-IW's in wall at the sides. Very satisfied

 

[Robert D]

The Aaragon 8008 sounds great with my Prodigies.

http://www.aragonav.com/8008

 

[Sunkenpirate]

Mark Levinson 5805 is outstanding with my Impressions. Room is slightly smaller than yours.

 

[spkrdctr]

I would not spend big bucks for a high powered amp unless you really want to damage your hearing listening to concert level music/rock. Any amp or receiver that you like (sound, features etc) that is 100 watts at 8 0hms and 200 watts at 4 ohms will easily power your speakers. You will most likely listen at a whopping 90 db max. Your amp/receiver will only be using a huge 5 watts with peaks taking maybe 20 watts. All in all you really don't need massive power. Now if anyone is trying to reproduce live concert levels than yes you need a 200/250 watt per channel amp. I have done it in a big room and it is amazing how decent gear (not super high quality or price.) works surprisingly well.
Buy a very good amp/receiver that sounds good to you and doubles at 4 0hms and you will be all set. but that is my humble opinion. Your mileage may vary!

 

[Chops]

I completely disagree about using any kind of receiver to power ML's. With weak power supplies and mediocre amplifier sections, you're never going to get the full potential out of the ML's. Keep in mind, I am not talking about power, just sub-par quality of a receiver.