New Balanced Force 210 and 212 subs!

[babydoc]

No question that room correction in the bass frequencies will make a huge diffrence. Highly recommended.

However, many of the bass frequency problems can also be addressed by using multiple subs to more evenly distribute modes. That's what I plan to do with my 4 sub setup. It will be going into an almost cube shaped room (11x10x9) which is the absolute worst shape for a room, and no amount of EQ can fix that. So a combo of treatments plus 4 subs placed strategically around the room will combat the basic room modes, then Audyssey XT32 room correction will be applied on top of that.

So I generally recommend multiple subs (at least two) as a means to combat room modes, as that is often a more effective way to improve bass than a single "better" sub.

I totally agree with the multiple sub concept. I have four subs (2 Descent-is, 2 Descents) distributed around my listening room and I also have 2 bass traps in the front corners. While no bass can be perfect, major bass nodes have been pretty much eliminated. Am considering Balanced Force 212 or 210s but will sit on the sidelines until there is some listener experience with these speakers.

 

[patsuh]

Jejejeje, you are right!! Ml designers needs to be fans of star wars saga

 

[sleepysurf]

The ML website now has full specs, dimensions, and details for the new BalancedForce 210 and 212 subs. Retail is $2,995 and $3,995 respectively (additional for custom wood tops, and Perfect Bass Kit). I'll be comparing them to the new JL Audio E-subs.

 

[RUR]

The ML website now has full specs, dimensions, and details for the new BalancedForce 210 and 212 subs. Retail is $2,995 and $3,995 respectively (additional for custom wood tops, and Perfect Bass Kit). I'll be comparing them to the new JL Audio E-subs.

Alan, you'd best compare them to 2 each of the JL's. This would make both the list prices (JL's are ~ half the price) and output - 2x10" drivers, 2x12" drivers - comparable.

High quality product from ID companies have made subwoofers a tough, tough market.

 

[Stefan_DR3]

JL's at half price?! Is the E-series made overseas?

At least I got confirmation from ML that their new subs are made in North America (Canada) which I assume would be the excellent Paradigm factory.

 

[RUR]

JL's at half price?! Is the E-series made overseas?

At least I got confirmation from ML that their new subs are made in North America (Canada) which I assume would be the excellent Paradigm factory.

e110 $1,500 (black ash), e112 $1,900 ditto

"Every E-Sub is precision-built in JL Audio's U.S.A. factory and individually performance-verified and tested..." http://www.jlaudio.com/header/News/...-built++E-Sub+Powered+Home+Subwoofers/2445830

 

[Dominick22]

I rather like the demo models seen in the youtube videos that have a clear top. Any chance we will be able to purchase one of those?
Dominick

 

[Peter Soderberg]

a lot of dealers asked about it, but according to the product guys, it was a one off that took big efforts to seal and was expensive and that we did paint the interior and removed the damping, something that we won't do for a working product. fun, but impractical.
sounds great, hope you like them. 2 1/2 years of trying to better the depth/descents. think we got it with more output and better feature content versus the old. at last count we have modeled over 40 ML models for filter slopes.

 

[sleepysurf]

Peter, what happens if both the RCA and LFE inputs get simultaneous signals (couldn't find the answer in the manual)? If I buy two 210's, I'd feed RCA out signal to each sub from my C-J preamp. I'd also run LFE outs from my Denon 3808 surround receiver to each (for Home Theater). However, with Home Theater, I also feed the Denon's Left and Right (Main) Pre outs to my Summits via my C-J's Home Theater bypass, so both RCA and LFE signals would simultaneously flow through to the subs in that scenario.

(I don't think the 2nd RCA output from my C-J preamp is switched off in Home Theater bypass mode).

 

[Peter Soderberg]

all signals will simply be summed in this case. Remember, the LFE inputs do not have any filters on it so it can be set by your processor (80 hz typically) and then set a level that makes sense with the movies. only twist is potential bass coming from RL if the speaker setting in the processor is set as Large. You might have to spend a bit more time getting overall bass level appropriate for movies as you may need to set it a bit lower than if only the LFE was coming in and you used the test tones from the processor.

 

[sleepysurf]

Thanks Peter. Interesting!

 

[snyderkv]

Peter,

Have you compared XT32(sub eq ht) vs the PBK? I read one or two statements that the difference should be negligible.

Also, how hard would it be to manually tune the sub to that of what the filters would do? Does it just set crossover as I would manually on the dials?

 

[sleepysurf]

Got to see/hear the BalancedForce 210's in action yesterday, paired with gorgeous CLX Arts at a "Truth in Sound" demo in Gainesville, FL. Other components were a ? Marantz CD player into a Berkeley Audio DAC direct to a 600W Bryston stereo amp)

Dennis C from ML was there, along with very knowledgeable staff from the Electronics World dealer. Overall, the setup was sublime. However, the large room lacked acoustic treatments, and I detected a slight bit of boominess in the lowest registers at higher volumes. I suspect everything could have been "dialed" in a bit more if they'd had more setup time. I wanted to ask them repeat some tracks with/without the subs powered on, but I didn't have time for that.

The build quality/finish of the subs appeared superb. One of them had the gloss walnut top, and the other entirely gloss black, with translucent dark glass cover for the controls. IMHO, it would have been better to have the control panels mounted on the front (or back), or at least offer a matching opaque black or walnut cover, for a more uniform top appearance (for WAF!). However, I did get my wife to come in for a (very) brief listen, and when I asked her what she thought... she replied "they're beautiful" (but offered no opinion on the sound :banghead: ).

Only new information I gleaned was that even with the downloadable filters + PBK, you still need to manually "dial in" phase and sub volume. Also, the downloadable filters are probably more useful for the (non-adjustable) CLX vs. the Summit/X (and other Reserve Line) series that have variable 25/50 Hz (or other) woofer controls, as ML currently offers only a few "custom" filter settings vs. the myriad woofer control permutations you might end up with for your particular room. I'd still use my XTZ Room Analyzer for final "tweaking."

I'm probably going to hold off a little bit on ordering one, as I want to try my old NHT Sub Two with the Summits, to see if ONE additional sub (? mid side wall location) is sufficient to smooth out my current room mode issue. Unfortunately, the size of the 210's would make it difficult to integrate TWO into my room (as I initially planned).

Hopefully some other FL ML club members will get over there today for a listen. Definitely worth the trip!

P.S. I brought a USB thumb drive with some Redbook and higher res demo tracks, but the Marantz player couldn't read it. Fortunately, they had a good variety of demo CD's with tracks I'm familiar with (especially Branford Marsalis' Trio Jeepy).

 

[JonFo]

Thanks for the detailed report Alan, seems these are very nice units.

Not surprised there is still some tweaking required, as positioning, room interactions and main speaker controls will all interact, so even with a custom filter file, the final phase/delay and levels will need to be adjusted.

 

[Need4spdnb]

For anyone interested,

We just got our BalancedForce 212's in today. We are running a pair of them with CLX's in our theater room. We didn't get a chance to dial them in yet, just listen very briefly.

They are much bigger than you think, pictures do not do them justice. Fit and finish is very nice.

 

[Jeff]

Need4, how do you like the subs? I am considering a pair of 210s to go with my CLXes.

 

[Need4spdnb]

Need4, how do you like the subs? I am considering a pair of 210s to go with my CLXes.

I am digging the new BF212 subs. Like I said, if you can get past the sheer size, their performance is amazing. PBK does wonders for bass response when subs are put where you have peaks/nulls. I love being able to see what the in-room response of the sub is before/after the calibration.

I am putting 2 of these in my basement shortly. The subs blend very well with the CLX's we have.

 

[Jeff]

Awesome! Let us know more details as you get more experience.

 

[SL1800]

I have had my BF212 for about a week now, it has had the required burn in time now and I'm ready to start playing with room placement and setting to get the most from it. As others have stated this thing is a beast and the fit and finish is first rate. I already have the feeling it's going to be great but time will tell.

 

[sleepysurf]

I have had my BF212 for about a week now, it has had the required burn in time now and I'm ready to start playing with room placement and setting to get the most from it. As others have stated this thing is a beast and the fit and finish is first rate. I already have the feeling it's going to be great but time will tell.

Any updates on how your BF212 is working out with your Summit X's? Did you have to change your default 25/50Hz settings on the Summits to exactly match the downloadable BF filters? Also, did you use the PBK for final "tweaking?"