Lets Talk a little....Analog !

[MiTT]

Tim, I understand the theory of the mat, but the advantage of adding a center weight has me befuddled in the case of a turntable with a threaded center spool (axle). It seems to me, that if you used any light weight center clamp on a threaded axle you increase the apparant weight (pressure felt by record) simply by screwing the clamp down and it would be easy to reach the same apparant weight of a heavier clamp. I don't see how you would get any more dampening than just by using the standard VPI threaded clamp. That being said, if I had something like the Black Diamond Racing center clamp and did a sound comparison against the standard clamp and heard a benefit, I would throw my reason out the door.

Steve,

I'm not an expert in micro vibration, but I do know a bit about it from when I worked in the telecom industry. Part of what you say is certainly true, and the reason VPI and others advocate a threaded clamp is because you are able to effect a "clamping force" as you seat the clamp down on the disc surface. But even VPI markets a heavy stainless steel clamp and the reason is the choice of the material and the increase in effective mass.

If you pick up the standard VPI clamp by the knurled spindle and snap it with your finger you can hear it resonate much like a bell. When you clamp it down on the threaded platter spindle you do couple it to the platter thus effectively changing it's mass and resonant frequency, but it is still a hollow body. The fact that it's vibrations have been altered in both frquency and amplitude don't dismiss or eliminate the vibration and even though you may not notice it directly, to something as small and sensitive as your stylus there is still as source of vibration (no matter how small) coupled directly to the record surface you are trying to extract information from, and the rest of your system is doing exactly what it's supposed to do and amplifying that signal.

By adding solid mass we are able to reduce this tendency to vibration even further, although we do not totally eliminate it. The VPI stainless steel clamp takes this approach. By further changing the material to something like carbon fibre (as in the case of the BDR), we not only take advantage of the increased mass, but also tend to eliminate resonate frequencies due to both the composition of the material itself as well as the constrained layer effect of it's construction as layers of a material weave.

Does that make sense?

 

[slowGEEZR]

Thanks Tim and Dave. I hadn't thought of the possible resonance ringing once the standard clamp was affixed, rather just the effect of weight. If you guys hear a difference for the better, then I will just have to buy one and try it myself!

 

[MiTT]

First off, if you have 'that much' dust on your lp's before playing you either didn't clean them well enough to begin with or your methods of storage need improvement.

With respect to the DiscWasher brush, this was discussed some time ago if recall correctly, while it may perform OK for a quick wet cleaning it is a POOR dry cleaning brush. The reason is, it's handle is made of wood, and thus it is incapable of conducting and static electricity away from the record surface, used anyway but wet it actually builds it up !

The only brush method that I know of to help with the static electricity problem are metal bodied carbon fibre. The absolute best I have come across is the "Disc Care 2+2", pictured below. Problem is it's no longer available (so I'm told) ! bummer !!! why I say it's the best, if you notice in the one pic it combines a leading edge sweep of carbon fibre followed by a soft fabric/chamois type material for very effective dry pick-up. The cradle that the brush is mounted in serves double duty as the cleaning device for the brush. If you can find this brush, do not hesitate to grab as many as you can find, it is that good, I'll buy what ever you don't want !!

Also, my initial post spoke of the product 'GruvGlide', excellent for combating static build up.

Dave, I agree, which is precisely why I like to use my trusty Hunt E.D.A. Mark 6 Brush for a quick dry brush prior to playing every surface of every disc. It too has a metal body with 2 rows of carbon fibre bristles to conduct static away from the record surface, as well as a center section of very fine velvetine material for capturing the dust. Very effective, and unlike the one you like, redily available at Music Direct, Acoustic Sounds, Elusive Disc. etc. for around $40.00 I believe. It's cradle similarly can be used for cleaning the brush.

I do still have my old DiscWasher brush nearby for anything that might need a quick "wet clean" prior to playing, but I only use it with a diluted version of the Disc Doctor fluid I use with my VPI 16.5 record cleaning machine.

 

[MiTT]

Thanks Tim and Dave. I hadn't thought of the possible resonance ringing once the standard clamp was affixed, rather just the effect of weight. If you guys hear a difference for the better, then I will just have to buy one and try it myself!

Or for less money see if you can locate one of the VPI SS versions and try that. They show up on the 'Gon every now and again. If you notice/like the difference in your system you could either keep it or "step up" to the BDR at a later date. At least that way you could valdate it for yourself with less coin out of pocket.

I'd be very suprized though if you didn't notice an improvement for the better.

 

[risabet]

how about record brushes?

Not for deep cleaning, just for brushing before play. I have the Clearaudio carbon fiber brush but it doesn't take away all the dust that's on the record, even one I've already cleaned with Disc Doctor.

I've seen the Discwasher brush with a velvet pad, that seems to do a good job, but I haven't used it.

Any recommendations?

How are you using it? The best method I discovered is to use the brush on the record by holding it at an angle to the surface of the record of about 45 degrees with the bristles facing you on the left side of the record and pulling the brush off towards you and the front of the record, not towards the edge. This keeps the bristles aligned along the radius of the record and gives the dust nowhere to go. If done correctly this wedges any dust, of which there should only be a little, in between the bristles and pulls anything else off the record and onto the plinth. If done correctly this is very effective.

 

[twich54]

My "New" RCM fuld

After using distilled water and VPI concentrate for years as my everyday RCM cleaning fluid I have made a change that to my ears has proven worthwhile.

I am now using Reagent Grade water and L'Art du Son concentrate.

Granted this concentrate is not cheap $40-45 a pop, mix it with a gallon of water. That will probably last me upwards of two maybe close to three years.......unless I start going back over EVERYTHING !

The reagent Grade water cost $20-25 for a five gallon container

 

[twich54]

Opps....... forgot to mention relative the new cleaning formula, Just redid this LP tonite, it is without question one of the top ten Lp's in my "Heavy Rotation' list since Christmas. For those of you that have it, I'm sure you'll agree, and for those that don't have...get it !

 

[Bernard]

Shelf Life of the VPI Cleaning Liquid

Does anyone have any idea of the shelf life of the VPI cleaning liquid? I have some old stuff (> 5years), and was wondering if it is still ok.

 

[TrumpetDoug]

Great Question

Does anyone have any idea of the shelf life of the VPI cleaning liquid? I have some old stuff (> 5years), and was wondering if it is still ok.

I have a gallon of Nitty Gritty fluid that I have had for probably 5 years. For a couple of years I was not listening to much vinyl. I have picked-up the pace a bit with this new TT. I have been using this old cleaner and have been wondering if it is still good. Any thoughts?

Doug - out

 

[Bernard]

Moving-Coil Cartridge Loading

The subject of loading of moving-coil cartridges has not been discussed in this thread yet. I have my Koetsu loaded down to 100 Ohms. Do you guys load down your cartridges or run them straight into 47K Ohms?

 

[slowGEEZR]

After using distilled water and VPI concentrate for years as my everyday RCM cleaning fluid I have made a change that to my ears has proven worthwhile.

I am now using Reagent Grade water and L'Art du Son concentrate.

Granted this concentrate is not cheap $40-45 a pop, mix it with a gallon of water. That will probably last me upwards of two maybe close to three years.......unless I start going back over EVERYTHING !

The reagent Grade water cost $20-25 for a five gallon container

Dave, I had been using the MoFi Super Deep Cleaner, followed by their Super Record Wash until recently. I discovered the amazing effects of enzyme cleaning with Audio Intellegent Vinyl Solutions Premium One-Step Formula No. 6. This stuff really works! I picked this stuff up from Galen Carol Audio and Galen said it is what he uses now. They did a lot of testing with a lot of cleaners and this one came out on top. I tried it and I'm a believer. It's $27 a quart; not too bad. The thing with this cleaner is to scrub it in, then let it sit for a minute or two. The enzymes do their thing, then scrub once more and vacuum it off.

 

[risabet]

Dave, I had been using the MoFi Super Deep Cleaner, followed by their Super Record Wash until recently. I discovered the amazing effects of enzyme cleaning with Audio Intellegent Vinyl Solutions Premium One-Step Formula No. 6. This stuff really works! I picked this stuff up from Galen Carol Audio and Galen said it is what he uses now. They did a lot of testing with a lot of cleaners and this one came out on top. I tried it and I'm a believer. It's $27 a quart; not too bad. The thing with this cleaner is to scrub it in, then let it sit for a minute or two. The enzymes do their thing, then scrub once more and vacuum it off.

It's $108.00 dollars a gallon I could by a gallon of absinthe for less. I use a cleaner from Oz that cost about $25.00 a gallon and works as well or better than the RRL cleaner IMO.

 

[risabet]

The subject of loading of moving-coil cartridges has not been discussed in this thread yet. I have my Koetsu loaded down to 100 Ohms. Do you guys load down your cartridges or run them straight into 47K Ohms?

I load my Benz "ACE" down to about 600 ohms. Lower seems to rob the cart of life and sparkle. 47k is just to bright and tinkly for my taste. With a transformer I like loadings of around 10 to 20 times the carts internal resistance, in the case of the Benz that is 24 ohms, so I'm a little over 20 times.

When you approach the carts internal resistance you cut output by half and you damp the HF peak maximally.

 

[TrumpetDoug]

Nitty Gritty

Ya Know, For all the analog talk I have seen on many different treads on this site. I don't think I have seen much in the way of one hell of a cleaning machine; Nitty Gritty.:bowdown: I have had the 2.5 for 20 years...... or perhaps 19.
I have replaced the "lips" (these are cleaning pads, cost nearly nothing) several times. I have used many gallons of fluid, I have delt with clean records, dirty records, good records, bad records. All the same result...........the thing just does a great job. The cost of this machine is also not "over the top" as some are. Just wondering if anyone out there has had experience with the N.G. products and if so whadaya think. I have heard a lot about the VPI and assume those are also great machines. but what about price? Are they not much more expensive than the N.G.?

Doug - out

PS. Risabet has mentioned N.G. on another analog thread.

 

[risabet]

Ya Know, For all the analog talk I have seen on many different treads on this site. I don't think I have seen much in the way of one hell of a cleaning machine; Nitty Gritty.:bowdown: I have had the 2.5 for 20 years...... or perhaps 19.
I have replaced the "lips" (these are cleaning pads, cost nearly nothing) several times. I have used many gallons of fluid, I have delt with clean records, dirty records, good records, bad records. All the same result...........the thing just does a great job. The cost of this machine is also not "over the top" as some are. Just wondering if anyone out there has had experience with the N.G. products and if so whadaya think. I have heard a lot about the VPI and assume those are also great machines. but what about price? Are they not much more expensive than the N.G.?

Doug - out

PS. Risabet has mentioned N.G. on another analog thread.

I had a Nitty Gritty 1.0 for a good 20 years and replaced it about 2 years ago with a VPI 16.5. $500.00 retail, not that I paid retail for it. IMO to get the most out of your records YOU MUST vacuum clean them.

BTW, the VPI now retails for $540.00

 

[twich54]

a VPI 16.5. $500.00 retail, not that I paid retail for it. IMO to get the most out of your records YOU MUST vacuum clean them.

BTW, the VPI now retails for $540.00

ditto....ditto.....and ....ditto !!!

 

[TrumpetDoug]

Cleaning

Not a bad price $500.00 - $540.00 If you consider the added enjoyment one will achieve when listening to vinyl. This is esp. true when shopping the used market. I have found some great buys in the after market vinyl arena, but none of them would of stood a "ghost of a chance" had it not been for the Nitty Gritty. It will save a lot of lost souls. (slabs) I'm glad to hear the VPI is at that price point, it would seem to be within reach of most that would invest in a decent to fabulous vinyl set-up/collection.

Doug - out

 

[Satch]

VPI 16.5 R.C.M & Bundle

Scrub-a-dub-dubb!!!

Got the VPI 16.5 RCM with a few extras today...

100 MoFi Original Master Sleeves

Zerostat 3 Milty

2 32 oz. bottles MoFi Super Record Wash

16 oz bottle MoFi Super Deep Cleaner concentrate

1 bottle Premier! Vinyl Record Pre-Cleaner

2 MoFi Record Brushes

1 extra vacuum pickup tube

1 extra cork platter for RCM

1 Audioquest anti static record cleaner

Onzow Zerodust stylus cleaner

Anybody have helpful hints for record cleaning day?

Thanks,
Satch

 

[Bernard]

Anybody have helpful hints for record cleaning day?

Thanks,
Satch

WOW! You don't do things in half measures; you jump in with both feet. I only have the VPI cleaning fluid (and follow the instructions from VPI), so do not have any helpful hints on the other fluids.

You may also want to get a set of ear plugs as the vaccum sounds like a jet engine taking off.

 

[Jeff Zaret]

Satch,
The first thing I would do is say relax. Do not go crazy and clean every record you own at once. The VPI 16.5 is a great machine but loud so if you do your ears may be ringing and you will not enjoy your tunes.

I think expermentation is the key. You will find what works for you. As you clean your LP's, some are dirtier than others and some are more worn than others so do not expect miracles with every cleaning. Sometimes it takes several cleanings to get an album clean and do not do it multiple times in a row. Clean an album then listen to it and enjoy it. The next time you decide to play it you may want to clean it again it it needs it. When they are clean, typically I use my Zerostat, then the anti-static brush and sit back and enjoy.

As far as the VPI 16.5, there are some unofficial mods I have found and done with success. If you are interested I can tell you about them in an email.

Good Luck and enjoy:music:

Jeff