Lets Talk a little....Analog !

[MiTT]

Tim, I know you probably don't want me near your neighborhood next time out and Sandy would probably like to shoot me but you have to put these two items on your short list!

New Platter - Check!
Perifery Ring - Check!
Mattress for dog house - Check!

Actually Dave, I've decided that the only way I'm going to be able to best you is to just go ahead and order one of these baby's (and it'll include the platter and ring clamp, and SDS and a whole bunch of other TOP SECRET sh!t)...

 

[twich54]

in what areas you hear improvements.

Bernard, First and foremost the bass is so much more articulate, taunt, imediate, call it what you want. But in conjunction with the imediate improvement there, the entire 10 octaves are now noticably more 'focused', you know the feeling visualy when you look through the viewfinder of your camera and suddenly everything snaps into focus, well think in terms of sound, you got the "picture" !

Not to mention an even quiter noise floor, and I was damn happy before !

I can't imagine what Jeff (Tonepub) is going through right now listening to the Continium, at an even higher level I suspect, he has probably had to change his diaper as well !!

Well I know Spring is here, but I am actually hoping for a rainy wekend !!

Oh, BTW, I can't wait till I get 200-500 hrs on it so it's broken in !! Sorry Bernard, I couldn't resist !!

 

[twich54]

New Platter - Check!
Perifery Ring - Check!
Mattress for dog house - Check!

Actually Dave, I've decided that the only way I'm going to be able to best you is to just go ahead and order one of these baby's (and it'll include the platter and ring clamp, and SDS and a whole bunch of other TOP SECRET sh!t)...

I've spent most of my married life in the dog house, there's worse places !!

I don't think there's any need / worry to "besting" one another(I know we were just poking fun) but seriously my Rocky Mountian friend, I know your love of analog, therefore you do need to put these on your wish list...birthday, X-mas , or something !!

Steve - hopefully this pic is a little better.

 

[slowGEEZR]

Thanks for the pics and reviews Dave. It actually looks like the record is the same height or higher than the ring. Hmm. If I get the super platter for the Scout, I wonder if it would fit any other VPI further up the chain. I think my upgrade path will be 1)super platter, 2)ring 3)SDS. Then I should have one fancy Scout! :music:

Also, regarding noise floor...Isn't it amazing how records have such different levels? I thought I'd let you guys know of one album I recently purchased that has the absolute lowest noise floor (surface noise) of any record I've ever heard on my system. It's the new purepleasure release "After Midnight", by Nat 'King' Cole and his trio. The music on this album is simply beautiful, also. Nat is in the room.

 

[Bernard]

Oh, BTW, I can't wait till I get 200-500 hrs on it so it's broken in !! Sorry Bernard, I couldn't resist !!

I hear that there is microscopic settling of the bearing once the snake oil has coated the interface, so it may well take longer

It's unfortunate that VPI did not develop the ring for existing platters as my HW 19 MK IV platter is a mere 3 pounds lighter than the 25-pound super platter. VPI's newer turntables are much sexier than the Plain Jane HW 19; wish I had the moolah to do a wholesale upgrade. The HRX would be nice !

BTW thanks for the pics.

 

[MiTT]

Also, regarding noise floor...Isn't it amazing how records have such different levels? I thought I'd let you guys know of one album I recently purchased that has the absolute lowest noise floor (surface noise) of any record I've ever heard on my system. It's the new purepleasure release "After Midnight", by Nat 'King' Cole and his trio. The music on this album is simply beautiful, also. Nat is in the room.

Steve, I picked that one up at RMAF last fall and I concur - amazingly quiet surfaces and a stellar recording. Very fitting given the quality of the music, this is simply an amazing musical event.

 

[Bernard]

Test Discs

While on the subject of disks - no one so far has mentioned disks specifically intended for setting up the TT.

Ortofon issued one that I bought many years ago (made by Proprius, I think), with some really wonderful music; there's a great interpretation of "House of the Rising Sun". One of the tracks is supposedly very sensitive to VTA, but I just can't hear it; in general I don't hear VTA sensitivity. How about you guys ?

I also have a test disc made by Cardas, but have not touched it in years as I did not hear any benefits to using it.

 

[slowGEEZR]

While on the subject of disks - no one so far has mentioned disks specifically intended for setting up the TT.

Ortofon issued one that I bought many years ago (made by Proprius, I think), with some really wonderful music; there's a great interpretation of "House of the Rising Sun". One of the tracks is supposedly very sensitive to VTA, but I just can't hear it; in general I don't hear VTA sensitivity. How about you guys ?

I also have a test disc made by Cardas, but have not touched it in years as I did not hear any benefits to using it.

I have (at least, I think I do) an old Stereo Review test disk that I used once about 25 years ago. I've been thinking about purchasing the one that Acoustic Sounds is pushing, but I'm in no hurry. I've never played with VTA, even though I know some people adjust it when switching from a 150g to a 180g record. I'm inclined to agree with Michael Fremer that you have to move the rear of the tonearm quite a bit to have much of an effect on VTA, so why worry. On the other hand, if one thinks they can hear a difference and use the VTA to fine tune, then go for it. I'd like to hear a turntable with VTA on the fly, so I could see if I could hear a difference.

 

[Bernard]

I'd like to hear a turntable with VTA on the fly, so I could see if I could hear a difference.

You can do VTA on the fly with the VPI tonearms if you are very careful.

 

[slowGEEZR]

You can do VTA on the fly with the VPI tonearms if you are very careful.

I know with some of them, but not with mine.

 

[risabet]

While on the subject of disks - no one so far has mentioned disks specifically intended for setting up the TT.

Ortofon issued one that I bought many years ago (made by Proprius, I think), with some really wonderful music; there's a great interpretation of "House of the Rising Sun". One of the tracks is supposedly very sensitive to VTA, but I just can't hear it; in general I don't hear VTA sensitivity. How about you guys ?

I also have a test disc made by Cardas, but have not touched it in years as I did not hear any benefits to using it.

Changes in VTA are clearly audible IMS. When the VTA is spot on, the high frequencies snap into focus and and there is a greater sense of extension and openness at the top end. Depending on how it is off the highs can sound either closed in or brittle and sharp. That said I don't adjust VTA for every album because I'd rather listen to music than f*&k with my arm all day.

 

[twich54]

Changes in VTA are clearly audible IMS. When the VTA is spot on, the high frequencies snap into focus and and there is a greater sense of extension and openness at the top end. Depending on how it is off the highs can sound either closed in or brittle and sharp. That said I don't adjust VTA for every album because I'd rather listen to music than f*&k with my arm all day.

I'm in totall agreement with Robert, when I got my Aries-3 w/10.5i arm it was initially 'fun' to play around and tweek for each thickness. Truthfully that novelty wore of within a month, and that's given the fact that my arm combo is probably the easiest there is to adjust !

I now have it optimized for 160-180 gram pressings, and as Robert says....enjoy listening to the music !

 

[MiTT]

I'm in totall agreement with Robert, when I got my Aries-3 w/10.5i arm it was initially 'fun' to play around and tweek for each thickness. Truthfully that novelty wore of within a month, and that's given the fact that my arm combo is probably the easiest there is to adjust !

I now have it optimized for 160-180 gram pressings, and as Robert says....enjoy listening to the music !

Yep, same for me Dave and Robert. There is a noticible effect if I change it, but I dialed it in and haven't touched it since I added the Mystic Mat.

 

[TrumpetDoug]

mat, mat, mat

Yep, same for me Dave and Robert. There is a noticible effect if I change it, but I dialed it in and haven't touched it since I added the Mystic Mat.

Hey Tim, How do like this mat? Is it expensive? And what about no mat? Right now I'm not using one on my table.

Doug - out

 

[MiTT]

Hey Tim, How do like this mat? Is it expensive? And what about no mat? Right now I'm not using one on my table.

Doug - out

Doug - unfortunately, yes, it's expensive ($300.00), but yes, it works as advertised. In short there was an increase in detail and a decrease in the noise floor. It's essentially comprised of multiple layers of material that have different resonant frequencies, thus canceling out any vibration being transferred into the record surface (and therefore into the stylus). Prior to getting the Mystic Mat I also ran a "naked" platter. Much like your Clearaudio, the VPI uses a vinyl platter (on my "older" Aries it is stanless steel with vinyl bonded at the top)> Supposedly the idea on such platters is that the the platter has the same resonant frequency as the LP sitting on it and therefore, when it is coupled to the platter (ideally by means of a good clamp - or in Daves case with a clamp as well as the perifiery ring), vibration is avoided because of the combined mass of the platter, clamp etc. I recommend the use of a good center clamp. Both Dave and I use the Black Diamond Racing model - also another $300.00 item that adds audible benefits.

 

[slowGEEZR]

I recommend the use of a good center clamp. Both Dave and I use the Black Diamond Racing model - also another $300.00 item that adds audible benefits.

Tim, I understand the theory of the mat, but the advantage of adding a center weight has me befuddled in the case of a turntable with a threaded center spool (axle). It seems to me, that if you used any light weight center clamp on a threaded axle you increase the apparant weight (pressure felt by record) simply by screwing the clamp down and it would be easy to reach the same apparant weight of a heavier clamp. I don't see how you would get any more dampening than just by using the standard VPI threaded clamp. That being said, if I had something like the Black Diamond Racing center clamp and did a sound comparison against the standard clamp and heard a benefit, I would throw my reason out the door.

 

[Bernard]

Changes in VTA are clearly audible IMS. When the VTA is spot on, the high frequencies snap into focus and and there is a greater sense of extension and openness at the top end. Depending on how it is off the highs can sound either closed in or brittle and sharp. That said I don't adjust VTA for every album because I'd rather listen to music than f*&k with my arm all day.

Guess I am going to have to play with a larger range of arm heights. Also, I was just reading a Koetsu review that stated that the best sound was with the cartridge lower at the back.

 

[jfm]

how about record brushes?

Not for deep cleaning, just for brushing before play. I have the Clearaudio carbon fiber brush but it doesn't take away all the dust that's on the record, even one I've already cleaned with Disc Doctor.

I've seen the Discwasher brush with a velvet pad, that seems to do a good job, but I haven't used it.

Any recommendations?

 

[twich54]

how about record brushes?

Not for deep cleaning, just for brushing before play. I have the Clearaudio carbon fiber brush but it doesn't take away all the dust that's on the record, even one I've already cleaned with Disc Doctor.

I've seen the Discwasher brush with a velvet pad, that seems to do a good job, but I haven't used it.

Any recommendations?

First off, if you have 'that much' dust on your lp's before playing you either didn't clean them well enough to begin with or your methods of storage need improvement.

With respect to the DiscWasher brush, this was discussed some time ago if recall correctly, while it may perform OK for a quick wet cleaning it is a POOR dry cleaning brush. The reason is, it's handle is made of wood, and thus it is incapable of conducting and static electricity away from the record surface, used anyway but wet it actually builds it up !

The only brush method that I know of to help with the static electricity problem are metal bodied carbon fibre. The absolute best I have come across is the "Disc Care 2+2", pictured below. Problem is it's no longer available (so I'm told) ! bummer !!! why I say it's the best, if you notice in the one pic it combines a leading edge sweep of carbon fibre followed by a soft fabric/chamois type material for very effective dry pick-up. The cradle that the brush is mounted in serves double duty as the cleaning device for the brush. If you can find this brush, do not hesitate to grab as many as you can find, it is that good, I'll buy what ever you don't want !!

Also, my initial post spoke of the product 'GruvGlide', excellent for combating static build up.

 

[twich54]

the advantage of adding a center weight has me befuddled in the case of a turntable with a threaded center spool (axle). It seems to me, that if you used any light weight center clamp on a threaded axle you increase the apparant weight (pressure felt by record) simply by screwing the clamp down and it would be easy to reach the same apparant weight of a heavier clamp. I don't see how you would get any more dampening than just by using the standard VPI threaded clamp.

Steve, here's my reasoning, or at least what I saw and heard.

The BDR is threaded and weighs in around 2lbs, so as you thread it down upon the lp it more easily, naturally and consistently couples the record to the platter each and every time. I bring down onto the record to the point where it just begins to turn the platter. I could not get the same feeling nor results with the stock VPI clamp, it was inconsistent, especially with lighter weight pressings(120 & 100 gram). To much force would easily cause 'cupping' of the LP, now this isn't to say one couldn't do the same thing with the BDR, it just was more natural and again consistent.

Also the BDR with it's Carbon Fibre construction is suppose aids in the coupling/isolation qualities as well, those of which I can't as easily quantify.

Steve, hope this half assed explanation of mine helps somewhat, hopefully Tim will do a better job with his thoughts !