HD-DVD vs Upconverting Players

[Craig]

I need a new player since I sold mine several months ago. I've gone long enough and it's time have dvd capability again. I'm either going to get an inexpensive upconverting player or an HD-DVD player.

The Oppo DV-970 or DV-981 looks very enticing especially after the glowing review the Oppo received in the latest Absolute Sound magazine. Not bad for a $229 or $149 player that does it all and is supposed to sound pretty good doing also.

I'll probably end up going with one of these inexpensive Oppo players for now and wait longer for an HD-DVD. I can always use a second player anyway.

How much better is an HD-DVD picture compared to upconverted DVDs? I haven't really spent much time watching either one.

 

[Charliemike]

I need a new player since I sold mine several months ago. I've gone long enough and it's time have dvd capability again. I'm either going to get an inexpensive upconverting player or an HD-DVD player.

The Oppo DV-970 or DV-981 looks very enticing especially after the glowing review the Oppo received in the latest Absolute Sound magazine. Not bad for a $229 or $149 player that does it all and is supposed to sound pretty good doing also.

I'll probably end up going with one of these inexpensive Oppo players for now and wait longer for an HD-DVD. I can always use a second player anyway.

How much better is an HD-DVD picture compared to upconverted DVDs? I haven't really spent much time watching either one.

I would say that upconverting DVD players probably provide a pretty decent experience but I would imagine that the experience of playing a standard DVD upconverted to a Hi-Def display can be equated to playing a normal DVD through high-end Hi-Fi gear ... Every shortcut, every mistake, every imperfection is probably very noticeable.

That being said, I'm getting one because the Oppos apparently do audio very well. The video upconversion is a bonus (my Denon receiver will do it too).

 

[Reverb2009]

My Toshiba HD-A1 vs. Pioneer Elite DV-59avi, The HD-A1 video wise looks just as good as my $1200.00 Pioneer Elite if not slightly better. Audio wise the Pioneer is much better than the HD-A1, DVD’s sound much better with a larger soundstage with lots of detail, the Toshiba is just average in comparison, which I would say the HD-A1 is comparable to the Oppo.

My opinion get a HD-A1 or A2. You will love it for both DVD’s and HD-DVD. With Toshiba's 2nd Gen. HD-A2 player coming out now, you can get HD-A1’s for a good price right now. BestBuy has the HD-A1 clearance for $399.99, or you can try an E-tailor.

http://www.nextag.com/hd-a1/search-html
http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php?masterid=17247256&search=HD-A1&op[]=page,517,4&op[]=page,1405,25
http://www.pricescan.com/electronics/items/item526039.asp

 

[IWalker]

I just bought the oppo 970HD, because I'm getting it primarily for music, and only secondarily as a DVD player. It has an audio only mode which turns the video circuits off when doing audio playback, which sounds like a nice feature. If you're more about DVD quality, get the oppo 971 or 981 (I think the 971 scored an amazing 98 on a certain set of video tests...the highest they had ever tested...think it was audioholics, but I'm not sure) the 981 also supports SACD now, which the 971 did not.

Zip, have you heard the sound quality of the oppos? Mine should arrive soon, and I have a dac on the way, so I can report on it...but I don't have a cd player of your pioneer's quality to compare it to.

All reviews of the oppo's sound quality that I've read says it's top notch...a lot better than just "average." Probably not on par with a $1200 player, but I'd assume significantly better than the first iteration of HD technology. Just a guess by me, though.

 

[SteveInNC]

By definition, an upconverting player is "making up" data to fill the additional resolution, so in theory, a true HD player should look better. Having said that, most reviews of the first-gen HD players and media that I've seen (either format) have not been that good. This may be a place where waiting for second- or third-gen is a good idea, giving them a chance to work the bugs out. I was around when CDs first hit the market. It took awhile before the hardware manufacturers got their act together, and before the record producers learned how to engineer recordings effectively to take advantage of the new format.

I'd go with Oppo for now and keep it for a backup/second machine. As you indicate, the sunk cost is pretty low, so you're not out that much money when you do upgrade.

 

[Reverb2009]

Zip, have you heard the sound quality of the oppos? Mine should arrive soon, and I have a dac on the way, so I can report on it...but I don't have a cd player of your pioneer's quality to compare it to.

All reviews of the oppo's sound quality that I've read says it's top notch...a lot better than just "average." Probably not on par with a $1200 player, but I'd assume significantly better than the first iteration of HD technology. Just a guess by me, though.

Honestly No, I dont have an Oppo to A/B.

All the reviews I have read have been raving about the picture quality of the Oppo and not so much the audio. If audio quality is your primary concern the by all mean get the Oppo, if you want picture quality get the HD-A1. Lots of people on the AVSforum have compared the HD-A1 to Pioneer elite 47a, 59avi, 79avi, Denon 2910, 3910, and have sold their players in favor for the HD-A1’s standard DVD performance and HD DVD playback. My HD-A1 does a good job with audio, but my Pioneer 59avi is just a little better.

 

[IWalker]

Yeah, I think the 971 gets the rave reviews for video, while the 970 has gotten more of them for audio...but who knows, reviews depend on the person. Plus, with a dac, I only really care about their digital out and sacd quality on analog outs...so I don't know how much those have been tested.

I'm not really an early adopter, so I'd wait on the HD just out of principle, even if it is a nice machine...and stick with a $200 upconverting machine until there's enough software to justify the added cost. I went the route of the 970, cause it's decent on video, good on audio (per reviews) and $150...so when I do make the HD plunge, I'll still hold onto the oppo as the cd player. I'd hate to just straight up waste $200 for a year or two worth of dvd watching....but I'd hate to waste $400 on that two. (since I'm sure next gen will be out soon)

 

[Craig]

So wear do you find these Oppo players anyway? Anybody ever hear of the Oppo brand before these players came out? I haven't and I didn't see them in the local Best Buy. Any suggestions?

 

[ralflar]

Most people have a library of SD DVDs. A good player is needed to get the best picture quality out of them. These new HD players are very unlikely to do a good job with SD discs. Focussing on their prime job, HD, corners must be cut elsewhere.

OTOH, my upscaling Arcam player shows SD taken to very high levels, beyond what I had thought possible. It is not HD-DVD or BD in terms of resolution, but it can look almost as resolved as HDTV, and beats HDTV in overall picture quality, quite stunning really.

If you have a decent SD DVD player you could consider to add a separate video processor for upscaling and deinterlacing. The results should be very good.

Price matters, too. I have three upconverting players:
- a $140 LG electronics (to 1080i)
- a $550 Denon 2910 (to 1080i)
- a $2k Arcam DV137 (to 1080p)
The display takes 1080i and 1080p inputs and has a native 1080p resolution. I calibrated it for each of the players.

The LG player displays blacks as gray. There is little dynamic range but a lot of noise.

The Denon has a nice color balance, good black levels, good dynamic range, low noise. Plainly, compared to the Denon the LG is junk.

The Arcam improves upon the Denon in all of these categories. The images are not necessarily sharper than those produced by the Denon; there is a certain softness. Overall however, there is an amazing amount of detail and texture, and a vibrancy of colors as well, which the Denon simply can not match.

I have read reports that Arcam's latest DV139 includes amongst other things a better deinterlacer, which resolves the softness problem.

That brings me back to suggesting an external video processor, which would add the extra benefit of HDMI switching.

 

[DTB300]

So wear do you find these Oppo players anyway? Anybody ever hear of the Oppo brand before these players came out? I haven't and I didn't see them in the local Best Buy. Any suggestions?

www.oppodigital.com Online ordering only. Home Theater Secrets has done some reviews on the video end of these players. I may consider the 981 until I see how the BR & HD wars play out. But then again I may just pull the plug on a BR or HD DVD Player.

Dan

 

[twich54]

www.oppodigital.com But then again I may just pull the plug on a BR or HD DVD Player.

Dan

I'm not up to date on the HD format wars, is either format winning out at this point, or still too early in the game ??

 

[Reverb2009]

I'm not up to date on the HD format wars, is either format winning out at this point, or still too early in the game ??

Fun site.
http://www.thedvdwars.com/index.cfm

 

[twich54]

Fun site.
http://www.thedvdwars.com/index.cfm

interesting Joe, I see the avg cost of a Blueray is 10% higher than HD-DVD.

 

[Reverb2009]

interesting Joe, I see the avg cost of a Blueray is 10% higher than HD-DVD.

That’s to be expected, HD DVD uses DVD’s current manufacturing processes so the manufacturing coasts are lower, Blu-Ray requires all new equipment to produce disks. Like any product Blu-Ray disks will become cheaper to produce over time just like DVD.

The benefits of Blu-Ray being higher priced to start with are 25GB single layer disks and 50GB duel layer disks to HD DVD’s 15GB single layer and 30GB duel layer disks. Supposedly HD DVD maxes out at around three layers wile Blu-Ray can go up to six layers giving Blu-Ray 200GB disks.

 

[Peter Hogan]

That’s to be expected, HD DVD uses DVD’s current manufacturing processes so the manufacturing coasts are lower, Blu-Ray requires all new equipment to produce disks. Like any product Blu-Ray disks will become cheaper to produce over time just like DVD.

The benefits of Blu-Ray being higher priced to start with are 25GB single layer disks and 50GB duel layer disks to HD DVD’s 15GB single layer and 30GB duel layer disks. Supposedly HD DVD maxes out at around three layers wile Blu-Ray can go up to six layers giving Blu-Ray 200GB disks.

Hi,
If Blu-Ray is 25GB per layer, my math says a six layer disk would be 150GB, not 200GB...

Peter

 

[Reverb2009]

Hi,
If Blu-Ray is 25GB per layer, my math says a six layer disk would be 150GB, not 200GB...

Peter

Your right Peter my math was off, thats what I get for typing that at work.

This is off Blu-ray.com

1.5 How much data can you fit on a Blu-ray disc?


A single-layer disc can hold 25GB.
A dual-layer disc can hold 50GB.

To ensure that the Blu-ray Disc format is easily extendable (future-proof) it also includes support for multi-layer discs, which should allow the storage capacity to be increased to 100GB-200GB (25GB per layer) in the future simply by adding more layers to the discs.

 

[chris03053]

970 for under $200 can't be beat.

Hey guys,

I have the 970 and use it mostly for DVD's. It's a great player.

I also bought it because it does 480i over HDMI, so i works great if you have a VP.

You can buy it direct fom the Co. like someone said.

Good luck.

 

[DTB300]

I have the 970 and use it mostly for DVD's. It's a great player.

After spending many days reading about BR and HD, and going out to many places to view players and listen to all the "Sales person marketing hype and BS" I plan to wait to see how things play out.

I am very new to video and its stuff compared to audio, but I seemed to know more than most of the sales people out there. Most of them just seem to regurgitate marketing brochures and hype - blah blah blah.

So with all this in mind, I decided to purchase the Oppo 970HD. Oppo was very fast with email responses to questions I had about setup along with a recommendation for ordering a proper player for my TV. Very impressive support.

Dan

 

[chris03053]

Oppo 970HD

Dan,

I think you will enjoy the OPPO 970.

I have been watching LOST first and second season on it and it has a great picture.

And like i said before, if you get or have a Video Processor in the mix, you wont have to worry about BR or HD for a while. IMHO that is

So with all this in mind, I decided to purchase the Oppo 970HD. Oppo was very fast with email responses to questions I had about setup along with a recommendation for ordering a proper player for my TV. Very impressive support.

Dan

 

[chris03053]

And BTW Dan,

I also enjoy those little quotes you always have in your signature section.