My current subwoofer (Paradigm PW-2100) just broke (fired amp). I currently have ML Claritys with a Fresco center so I was interested in purchasing a ML sub. I started to research the Grotto, when I came across Tweeter's sale price on the Depth. Apparently, they are selling off the old depth model for $1.098.00, which makes it cheaper than the Grotto. I was thinking of getting the Depth, but I am concerned that it may be overkill for my current setup. Please advise, which subwoofer is a better match for my current speaker configuration. Thanks
Grotto Vs Depth Question
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Caerus
Well-known member
No doubt the Depth will be better and certainly not overkill. The design of the Depth will have a faster response to keep up with the estat panels of the Clarity's. The Depth is the way to go, especially at that price. Keep in mind the Depth is an outgoing model while the Grotto is still a current ML model in their lineup. Thus the great price. Also keep in mind any outgoing model does not qualify for Tweeters one year trade-up policy.
Brad
Brad
What Brad said. When i went from Grotto to Depth "i", it was a world of difference to say the least. I would 100% go for Depth over Grotto. Just make sure that the Depth is brand new, not some floor piece or returned item. Apparently, when i returned my Grotto for the Tweeter upgrade, it went to the floor section to be sold as a floor sample.
FatJ
Well-known member
Not to complicate your decision, but if you call your sales rep at Tweeter back you'll be pleased to find out that with the new Grottoi only a few weeks away, the Grotto dropped today to $688
No worries there. Either one of those will blend well with your system when set up properly. The depth should be a little cleaner and pressurize the room better. You should feel the bass a little more.
I think a lot of that comes down to your room. If it is a big room consider the depth or maybe even a pair of Grotto's since the price is right!
The Depth is certainly nice and I heard an impressive demo when used with a DefTech Mithos system at Magnolia, but I've heard some remarks about its sound being a little "directional" and this may be due to the fact that the cones are 3 x 8” instead of one 10” like the Grotto. I also have Clarities and Fresco and I use the Grotto and I assure you it is no shrinking violate. My medium sized room quite literally could not take any more base. If you can get the Grotto for $699 due to the phase out to the Grotto i, this should make your decision a little tougher. I don’t know your set up, but also consider that the Grotto is shorter and easier to conceal. Here I will quote a post I recently wrote concerning my first impressions of my Grotto:
“I just purchased a Grotto and it sounds fantastic right out of the box. It's so controlled and silky smooth. I just watched the scene in Jurasic Park III where the T-Rex squares off with it's rival dinosaur. It was so convincing my hair stood on end. If the Grotto would have played any louder or lower I swear it would have bored a hole 5 ft deep in my living room. Absolutely amazing. Can't believe the quality of the grotto's base. And at least in my medium sized room I could not imagine ever needing 2. And this is coming from someone who craves base.
I am now a believer, that Servo subs are the only way to go. I recognize that everyone's set up is different, but I highly recommend this sub, even for those who are convinced they needed a 12" or 15" sub.”
The good news is you can’t go wrong with either. But bottom line is it doesn’t make sense to pay more for a difference you might not be able to perceive, or for an improvement which might be marginal at best.
Good luck, and chin up! For it's all audio bliss from here forward.
Thanks for the input guys. I went out yesterday to my local Tweeter center and listened to both the Depth and Grotto. I was impressed with the Depth, but Tweeter only had two left in their entire network. The floor model I listened to and another one at a different store that was already sold. The Grotto was good for music, but it lacked the weight I am use to for movies. I currently have the Paradigm PW-2100, which could not keep up with my ML speakers for music, but did very will with moves. This sub's amp got fried during a thunderstorm so this is why I am looking. I really liked the depth, but Tweeter will not lower the 1,098.00 price even for the floor model that looks like it has on the floor for five years (lots of niches and scuffs).
I also managed to listen to a sub from Monitor Audio at a local HT Shop. I was really impressed with the R720. It had the music qualities of the Grotto, but had much more weight for movies. I also liked the price, 800.00 for dual down firing 8 inch woofers. Of course not as much weight as the Depth, but for the price and performance it seems to be a better buy than the Grotto. The only problem is that I could not hear this sub with ML gear. Has anyone used this sub with ML speakers?
I also managed to listen to a sub from Monitor Audio at a local HT Shop. I was really impressed with the R720. It had the music qualities of the Grotto, but had much more weight for movies. I also liked the price, 800.00 for dual down firing 8 inch woofers. Of course not as much weight as the Depth, but for the price and performance it seems to be a better buy than the Grotto. The only problem is that I could not hear this sub with ML gear. Has anyone used this sub with ML speakers?
Caerus
Well-known member
I have not tried the Monitor Audio, but I suspect it won't be the total solution you are looking for. But my quest for a sub that was musical, could keep up with the estats and have the "weight" as you say for HT was very hard. I went through all sorts of auditions in the store and brought some home as well.
This is what I would do: Go to audiogon.com and buy a new Depth with a warranty for only $101 more than Tweeters beat up demo. Keep in mind the price is $1199 obo, so make an offer for less and see what happens. Shipping should be under $100 and no sales tax.
Good luck. Brad
This is what I would do: Go to audiogon.com and buy a new Depth with a warranty for only $101 more than Tweeters beat up demo. Keep in mind the price is $1199 obo, so make an offer for less and see what happens. Shipping should be under $100 and no sales tax.
Good luck. Brad
Pcar928fan
Well-known member
Or buy an excellent condition used Descent and blow them ALL away! I bet you could find a nice Descent w/ its box and paper work for $1200 or so! They ROCK too let me tell you!
Caerus
Well-known member
James, I was thinking the Descent as an option, but only one on the gon and it's $1,500. I'm thinking he can get a new warrantied Depth delivered for under $1,200 maybe closer to $1,100.
Pcar928fan
Well-known member
Maybe so, but I have had no trouble w/ my Descent EVER (it is 6 years old now, or close to it) and they sound SOOOO AWESOME!!!
IWalker
Well-known member
It comes down to the budget issue...Descent = 1.5 depths (approx) = 3 grottos in terms of output.
Also, remember that servo bass is not going to sound like your typical HT sub. A lot of the boominess that makes that HT sound won't be there...and you'll have to get used to the cleaner low end...I can't stand most "HT" subs for HT now, now that I've had this 12" servo sub for a while.
If you can swing $1500 for a descent, it's definitely worth it vs $1200 for a depth.
Also...another thing to note is, the descent not only goes louder, but is also designed to roll off lower...so would do better with the low bass for HT than 1.5 depths (even though they have the same output)
I swear by servo subs now, though...so get what you can afford...and you can supplement later if you feel it's needed.
Also, remember that servo bass is not going to sound like your typical HT sub. A lot of the boominess that makes that HT sound won't be there...and you'll have to get used to the cleaner low end...I can't stand most "HT" subs for HT now, now that I've had this 12" servo sub for a while.
If you can swing $1500 for a descent, it's definitely worth it vs $1200 for a depth.
Also...another thing to note is, the descent not only goes louder, but is also designed to roll off lower...so would do better with the low bass for HT than 1.5 depths (even though they have the same output)
I swear by servo subs now, though...so get what you can afford...and you can supplement later if you feel it's needed.
I have not heard the Monitor Audio Sub and while I give a lot of praise for this brand in general, my suggestion would be to stick with a servo sub, or to a model from a sub specialist like Velodyne, Sunfire, etc... I heard a Velodyne SPL 10 and was astonished by its smooth, and yet extreamly hard hitting performance, especially for a 10 incher. It is not a servo sub but it has extreamly low distortion levels as if it were a servo. Plus it has a remote control which is really nice for set up. It's also available in 12 and 15 inch versions. If I hadn't gotten such a great deal on my Grotto I would have gone with a Velodyne SPL-12 for sure, which undoubtedly surpasses my Grotto in authority (my room doesn't need it) and is just as smooth. You owe it to yourself to check these out, but you will probably end up paying at least $1500. Good luck.
bober
Well-known member
I have a question. I heard that the Depth, although it has 3 8" woofers, only one is active and the other two are passive. I was also told by the same person (Magnolia) that the Descent's woofers are ALL active. I thought the Depth had all three active as well. Which is the case?
FatJ
Well-known member
The depth, descent, and depthi all share a common amplifier for each of the three drivers, however they are all active. The new descenti is the first to sport three amplifiers... one for each of the woofers. I'm listening to one right now and all I can say is WOW
bober
Well-known member
hmm.. that is very very good to know. i imagine the sound of the descent i is a lot better, but am still wondering if it'd be overkill for a room that is going to be about 13 by 17 feet.. would even a depth or depth i be overkill? money isn't really an issue as much as overall sound quality and balance..
FatJ
Well-known member
Excellent advice. I had the depth for a little over a year and just recently upgraded to the descenti. I was amazed at the difference. I don't think either one would be overkill. I just talked to one of my client's who has the clarity's with a cinemai and frescoi rears with the descenti in a room about the size of your's bober and he is in heaven!
BTW... $1500 does sound like a really good buy on the descent as long as it's in decent shape
Tj Bassi
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From time to time someone will question as to whether a particular sub is 'overkill' for their system, but I think the scenario only works in reverse. If your subwoofer is under-spec'd for your system and the gain is all the way up (from what I hear, they go to eleven), there isnt much you can do except step up to a bigger unit. If you have a somewhat larger unit as the Descent, you could always trim the gain down to match the output of your main speakers.
T-
T-
mbergs9
Member
Just curious...I have a Dynamo in my setup and it matches up fairly nicely with 2-Channel listening because it just "boosts" the lower end without drowning out my Aeon i's. However, in multi-channel listening, the low end is not nearly as tight, and I feel like the sub is getting "overworked". Right now I am running it through my AVR-3803 while the rest of my speakers are being run by the TGA-7400.
I was thinking that I could get another Dynamo, run each off the left and right channel through the speaker level inputs, then set my speakers as full range for 2-channel and multi-channel with no sub. Would I then have to split my LFE cable to each sub for multi channel listening? Inthe Dynamo manual, it tells me that connecting to speaker level inputs is for 2-channel only...but I'm curious if I an change that through the processor.
Or should I just go out and get a bigger sub...
Thanks.
I was thinking that I could get another Dynamo, run each off the left and right channel through the speaker level inputs, then set my speakers as full range for 2-channel and multi-channel with no sub. Would I then have to split my LFE cable to each sub for multi channel listening? Inthe Dynamo manual, it tells me that connecting to speaker level inputs is for 2-channel only...but I'm curious if I an change that through the processor.
Or should I just go out and get a bigger sub...
Thanks.
If a sub sounds directional then it could probably use some more tweaking of room placement, frequency and level adjustments. This is generally true of most subs regardless of model/brand. The fact that the Depth and Descent subs have three opposing woofers firing 120 degrees from each other should help reduce standing waves in the room in addition to smoothing out the resonances within the sub's cabinet.
FatJ
Well-known member
Or should I just go out and get a bigger sub...
Hmmmmmmm.... I see a servo in your future
