Rich. Welcome back. Glad to hear you are on the mend. I did end up getting the directstream about 3 months ago with Yale. All I can say is you are going to love it. Look forward to your review. Tim
Total System/Room Upgrade
- Thread starter Rich
- Start date
Help Support MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum:
Rich. Welcome back. Glad to hear you are on the mend. I did end up getting the directstream about 3 months ago with Yale. All I can say is you are going to love it. Look forward to your review. Tim
Bernard
Well-known member
Welcome back Rich. Glad you're back in shape, counsellor.
Looking forward to snapshots of your system. I'm sure if you ask nicely one of the mods will delete your existing punked thread.
Looking forward to snapshots of your system. I'm sure if you ask nicely one of the mods will delete your existing punked thread.
Oh, Bernard, I hope they don't delete that thread. It's a classic! Maybe I can just link to it in my new system thread and call it my prior system. Thanks for the well wishes everyone.
Figured I would update this thread. My media room upgrade project is pretty much finished. The Summits sound incredible in their new position with diffusers behind them, and now being fed with 140 wpc of CJ tube power. The soundstage is deep and wide. The DirectStream DAC is burned in and sounds fabulous. I just ordered the network card for it and I also ordered a souped-up version of Small Green Computer's SonicTransporter to act as my Roon server. The Synology NAS is set up and I am actively ripping my CD collection to Flac. Unfortunately, it's going to take months to get all my CDs ripped, but once it's done, it's done. At any rate, I've got the room set up the way I want and the next step is to take some pictures of it all so I can post my system. Soon. Very soon.
So Rich... Why diffuser vs absorption? It has seemed to me that the Logan guys preach absorption while the Maggie guys preach diffusion. What have you heard in the diff between absorption and diffusion as I think you used to be an absorption guy?? Torrey's beta is on the way shortly. 
amey01
Well-known member
Look forward to hearing an excuse for why you haven't posted it, some time in the latter half of 2019.
So Rich... Why diffuser vs absorption? It has seemed to me that the Logan guys preach absorption while the Maggie guys preach diffusion. What have you heard in the diff between absorption and diffusion as I think you used to be an absorption guy?? Torrey's beta is on the way shortly.
Ok, here's my take on absorption vs diffusion for ML speakers, having used both. It depends entirely on how far from the back wall you can get the speaker panels. If your panels have to be three feet or less from the rear wall, then absorption is a must. That is just not enough distance for diffusion to properly work or for the time lag of the rear wave to be heard separately from the front wave. You must absorb the rear wave in that instance, and you need an absorption panel that will absorb down to about 500 Hz. or so for max effect.
If you can get the panels at least four, and preferably five, feet from the front wall, then diffusion is the way to go. And I'm not talking about bookshelves or plants or whatever homemade "diffuser" people suggest. I'm talking professional diffuser panels made by someone like real traps or GIK.
Here are the acoustic differences, from my experience. Absorption will give you much greater clarity and precise imaging, at the expense of soundstage width and depth. Diffusion makes images a little more open and less precise, but the soundstage is deeper and wider, with a more open and enveloping sound field. Imaging is still good, just not as pinpoint precise as with absorption. But it is more natural and "live" sounding.
If you can get your speakers far enough from the rear wall, diffusion is definitely the way to go. If not, absorption is a must to get the most out of these speakers. The way I had my room set up before, I had my panels a little less than three feet from the rear wall. Bare walls and diffusion both ruined imaging and soundstage, and caused me to have to keep volume levels lower due to SPLs from the rear wave. At higher volumes it was painful and at any volume the overall sound was poor. Absorption restored the capabilities of the speakers to produce crisp imaging and a decent soundstage, and allowed me to turn up the volume to reasonable levels and it sounded great. No pain even at high volume.
With the new setup, I have brought the speakers out to four feet from the rear wall (and I may get them out further) and have three diffuser panels in each front corner of the room. By doing this, the sound is more full, open and enveloping, the soundstage is wider and especially deeper. Images aren't as precise, but are more natural as you would hear from a live instrument. I can listen at any volume level from fairly quiet to almost ear-splitting, and the music sounds great regardless. Overall, I prefer the sound of the new setup to the old, but having the speakers far enough out from the diffusers is a must for this to work.
One final note on absorption. A lot of people experiment with it and then give up, saying the sound is too dead or muffled. I disagree and would postulate that they are trying to compare them at the same volume levels they used without absorption. The rear wave adds a lot of SPLs. Once you absorb it, you have to crank up the volume to get back to the SPL levels you are used to. Once you do that, the music comes alive and the sound is so much better than bare rear walls (again, this assumes speaker panels are three feet or less from rear wall).
And yes, I am so ready for Torreys and Rune integration! Just a few more weeks.
Adam, when have I ever promised and not delivered? Wait, never mind . . .
Rich, have you given any thought to running for President .............
Dave, you know I'm way too smart to be dumb enough to run for President. Besides, I've got so many skeletons in my closet, the State required me to get a mortuary license.
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Great post Rich / diffusion vs absorption.
Think you nailed it.
GG
Think you nailed it.
GG
Thanks for the post rich. Yes. This makes sense. I've always had some distance from front wall - minimum of 6' panel to wall with my odysseys. Maggie's have a tendency to have a more diffusive (less pinpoint image ) than Logan's imho which is probably why the fanboys love diffusion behind these dipoles. They are also less 'hot' ...again that humble opinion thing... So a speaker that is not as lively per se might not swing so well with absorption. I have never tried diffusion w the Logan
Hi Rich, welcome back, and great to hear you are doing well. This is a very cool evolution of your system.
I find it interesting that you went with bipoles for the movie setup, doesn't that add setup challenges for ideal imaging?
Also, are you still using the 8801 or have you stepped up to the 8802? The 02 is supposedly a much better sounding unit, and is on my short-list for new preamp.
I find it interesting that you went with bipoles for the movie setup, doesn't that add setup challenges for ideal imaging?
Also, are you still using the 8801 or have you stepped up to the 8802? The 02 is supposedly a much better sounding unit, and is on my short-list for new preamp.
LOL Rich, you know, the reality is there are probably good credible candidates out there that don't want to deal with the some of the ridiculous scrutiny and therefore we'll never know ...........
Hey Jon. I've got the Mythos Super Towers up front, which are not bipoles, so no setup issues there. And yes, I still have the AV8801, which works fine for my needs. I just use it for home cinema, and with 11.3 channels it sounds awesome.
Last edited:
Hi Rich, ah, the Mythos are nice speakers for that application, glad to hear it's all performing to your expectations. Enjoy!
