Amp question.
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roberto
Well-known member
Hola. The skill to listen differences between devices takes some time. You have to judge not only the main artist, furthermore you have to listen the surrounded musician playing too. The size of the instruments, the stage, where are the cymbals? Next to the drummer, or are too forward? The air between instruments, in other words, is it easy to you to listen just one instrument when you have a sextet playing? Wind instruments, do you listen the same air through a sax or a trumpet? What about percussion instruments, a guitar or a piano? Do you understand the left hand at the piano vs right hand? How about noise floor? Do not play the music too loud to get all these things. They will get evident at moderated level than playing loud. What about the bass, does that bass note has the same deepness with both amps or one is a little deeper? What about warmth. Female voice, do you listen the same timbre? Or one amp is more easy to listen than the other? Do you find yourself tapping the floor along with the music with both amps? How about dynamics? Are both the same in this respect? Does one of them has more lived sound than the other? The problem that we have, is that our immediate memory only last 15 seconds or so. So, what you have to do is to listen at least four hours with one amp. Them, change and write down if you listen any difference. Use always the same type or the same music for the test. Remember to do the comparison with the same music material, Always do A= amp1 B=Amp2. So, listen to A then B then A again, other day listen B then A then B again, and write your conclusions. You will be amazed how many differences you will find with this method. Also, both are good amps! Happy listening!
Robert, that was one of the best responses I've ever received. Thank you! You are right, but it is difficult to tell. I'll leave the app hooked up, as I'm sure it lessens the burden on my onkyo. And what about different brand amps, can you really tell a difference between them?
roberto
Well-known member
Of course you can... just give to you some time. You will tell the differences with some time. Just, trust your ears! not in their specs. This is like you are saying a Ford (with all respect) is similar to a Mercedes Benz (with all respect too). You have to listen mostly to the nuances of the music. And also, your Martin Logan speakers are a such quality driver, that will show your cables and components. But, my best advice is: enjoy the music! Enjoy how this incredible musician(s) offer to you their soul. You will learn the sound of every musician. When you are listening to your favourite main artist, and also you start to learn who is playing with him or her. You get the soul, the feeling of every musician at the recording! This is not what you get from all speaker brands. You have to spend a lot of money to get this. But with Martin Logan, this is an easy task. Remember, it is better to have quality than quantity. This is the fun of our beloved hobby: to listen to the musician(s) playing for us, at our own place! And this is cheaper than to go every day to a concert hall. Try to listen all type of music. Read reviews of famous magazines, like Tone Audio, The Absolute Sound, Stage, Stereophile, etc. There are great reviewers and they tell you what song of what particular recording they used for that particular test. Oh, another great advice that I am using now. Search for what it is well reproduced and avoid what it is not or do not put any attention to that. Write your findings for comparison, and enjoy every moment when you are listening to the music! Happy listening!
amey01
Well-known member
Roberto's answer is awesome!
I'd also add - try changing back to your Onk - I bet the difference will be a lot more obvious then!
Bernard
Well-known member
Good advice. I find that audiophiles in general listen to music too loud, especially when evaluating equipment.
eknuds01
Well-known member
Make sure you are listening to the best quality recording possible when seriously evaluating an amp or speaker. Go out of your way to find music (that you like) that's been recorded correctly. You will be amazed what a difference this makes and quality amps/speakers will really shine. In my opinion, you will also be able to distinguish the differences between amp1 and amp2. Remember that as you audition better products, these systems will also bring out what is "bad" within a given recording vs 'covering' it up with booming bass and a lack of detail.
Erik
Thanks guys.. I don't listen very loud,otherwise it just gets distracting. I have some Apple Lossless,but I generally stream spotify,being that its more convenient.. It comes thru at 320 kps and is pretty good,but I know its not at flac quality.
Pneumonic
Well-known member
if neither of your amps are being driven into distortion (ie clipping) then, so long as they are capably designed amps, you won't hear any difference.
If you want to hear a difference, crank the amps, and listen.
eknuds01
Well-known member
This then begs the question, what is a 'capable' amp?
There are TONS of amps of all shapes, sizes, designs (tube, digital, hybrid), and prices --> all that influences the decision to audition and/or make a purchase. The notion that you need to listen at high levels to tell the difference makes little sense to me.
Roberto's response was rather eloquent. You need to know what to listen for.
Erik
Pneumonic
Well-known member
Quite simply ..... a capable amp would be one that doesn't clip, and add distortion, at the volume level that you require in order to listen.
Hocky
Well-known member
I agree with you, but I think that an Onkyo receiver doesn't qualify. I am sure it is falling apart in the high frequency range with the impedance swings.
Pneumonic
Well-known member
Yes, likely. Then again, this would be easily heard.
roberto
Well-known member
Hola Chicos...just wanted to add a little note. The new Electromotions are to my ears a totally different beast than any other ML speakers. Why? Just listen an Onkyo or any low price electronic gear driving them, like Yamaha, Denon, Marantz, Sherwood, Harmann Kardon, etc, you are going to get a big surprise. There is a lot highs, and they do not clip easy. They were designed thinking to be driven by this kind of electronics, and please do not get me wrong... of course you can tell when better electronic is singing with them. Happy listening!
Roberto you are correct.. That's my whole point. I don't crank my speakers. I like to listen at a normal level. They have never clipped with the Onkyo 818. That's my whole point,I don't think buying an amp with these speakers really matters unless your going to do 9.1 with the 818. If you have to really turn them up with an amp to notice anything,then I just see a waste of money. Buying a $5000 amp doesn't make any sense to me. However,if you buy say a tube amp that changes the sound signature a bit,to a warmer sound or something like that,I could understand it more.
Bernard
Well-known member
Didn't we just go through a firestorm on the subject? Let's not restart it!
Pneumonic
Well-known member
Ah, missed that one, Bernard. Sorry!
Not sure I should go search it out ...................
Well,I know nothing about the firestorm,so is there a thread I can read? Is there a conclusion to this or is it another debate like to buy expensive cables or not?
Pneumonic
Well-known member
To maintain peace in here, if you wish to PM, off thread, I can help answer your questions. My advice will be based on objectivity, and not subjectivity, however.
Except, of course, when you do. I certainly can hear a difference between my Pass Labs X350.5, my Conrad Johnson tube amp, and my Sanders Sound mono blocs. Each has a pretty distinct sonic signature.
Honestly, though, I don't believe your Onkyo, nor your Emotiva, are sufficient to handle the demands of ESL speakers. I would be surprised if you heard much of a difference between them. A lot also depends on the quality of other components in the chain and the source material being played.
