Who can recommend a nce Power amp for My Prefaces?

[rw_designs]

well its a beast of a unit, it weighs a ton! setting it up was a challenge simply based on how damn heavy it is. first thing i did was open the hood and check out the motor, and took some photos. but i got it installed last night and listened until 3am! its a huge improvement over the Adcom over all. more forward sounding with a much bigger sound stage. the detail is much improved, and the mid-bass is greatly improved. my only dislike so far is a slightly harsh sounding top end. i played The Rolling Stones album Exile on Main Street and the cymbals were a bit fatiguing by the end of the recording. i think all the silver cables and IC in my system might be a poor match to this amp and the ATF drivers. time to employ those DIY cables made with cat3 pairs and some new copper IC, i have to see if that will dumb down the brightness ive gained. thats my only complaint so far though. ...and along with the improved mid-bass is a better integration with the sub which is very welcome. its odd but the volume is now about 5db lower on average compared to comfortable levels with the Adcom, which even though the integration is better i still had to bring the gain on the sub up to matched the increased levels of the the mains. this is all very preliminary observations, keep that in mind. one other big change for me was the effects of live music with this amp. live recordings are exponentially more dynamic than studio typically, and this amp seems to really accentuate that effect. i finished editing my recording from last weekend today which i had started 2 days ago with the previous amp, well i hit play and was blow away immediately!! the increased dynamics and slam have to be the biggest improvements i can hear right now.

only real down side right now is the need for a rack soon. the thing is so big and heavy i have to do something soon. none of my previous solutions can help, this is going to take a full revamping of my setup.

so thats it so far ron. does that help?

Sounds like you have a winner there. I was wondering how quiet the amp is quiescent when you turn up the preamp? Any noise there?

The problem with the high end baffles me though. The ATF's on the Preface are very bright and revealing so it may be the IC's I just don't know. I look forward to how you adjust to using this amp over time. I just cannot make a decision it's too hard.
Thanks Jim it was good to hear from you and good luck there. I am glad your concert recordings sound great to you. Nice job

Ron

 

[rw_designs]

my only dislike so far is a slightly harsh sounding top end.

Jim,

I think the amp needs some burn in time is all. Thats what I have heard even on amps costing quite a bit more.
I might be wrong...

Ron

 

[rw_designs]

Still working on this guys. Last night I realized that when summer is here and the windows are open I will not be able to listen at high levels as folks get to bed early during work weeks. Well whatever I know but still.

I have noticed much better sound from my system at lower levels and this is because the Crown D-150A needs work. Those supply caps are now thirty years old and the response time of the amp is slow indeed when compared to todays equipment.

So, I still want plenty of headroom but will be at lower listening levels. I want those peaks to live well in the room at low levels. I've wanted that all along. So it looks like I still will be needing the power but have reversed myself in one respect I am willing to buy an integrated amp. Why not right? All in one to match as one.

Some thoughts were a Marantz PA8003 but its only 100watts/ch at 4 ohms. Direct mate there with my Marantz SA8003 SACD. But that isn't enough power....

Another thought was a Cambridge 840A Azur which will give me 200w at 4 ohms.

Any ideas on these or maybe others out there?

I would love to buy a Parasound system but cannot afford the John Curl designs except for the A23 power amp but I read some poor reviews on it. Unless others have not???? So here we go again. Maybe I have changed the playing field a bit?

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
In terms of John Curl's Designs, take a serious look at Parasound's HCA Series.
The vast majority were Designed by Curl and internally are almost identical with many Models.

For example, the Curl Designed 4500 Dollar A51 and HCA-2205AT that can be found for around 1000 Dollars are unbelievably close in spec. The A51 uses a 2.2 kVA Toroidal Transformer and 164,000uf of Capacitance. The HCA-2205AT uses a 2 kVA Toroidal Transformer and 150,000uf of Capacitance. Aside from upgraded cosmetics, XLR Connections, and slightly better parts, they really are unbelievably similar and the 2205AT offers 99% the performance of the A51.

The Halo A23 is an upgraded version of the HCA-1000a. The JC-1 Monoblocks are an evolution of the circuit topology of the HCA-2200 and even closer to the 2200's replacement the HCA-3500. Again, better parts are used, but the performance difference is not vast.

If not Parasound, Aragon's 4004 MK II is an great amp for under 750 Dollars.
It was Designed by Krell Founder Dan D'Agostino. The 4004's replacement, the 8008 Series are fantastic, but are usually 1000 Dollars plus.
Cheers,
JJ

 

[MrBT]

I just wonder why nobody brought the Musical Fidelity brand to attention. I've noticed it's kinda low popularity among ML owners. The good thing is than you can get 550K Superchargers for $750 a piece from Audio Advisor. I personally own 550k and 750k and I'm in electrostatic heaven BTW, 550K recently called Class B in stereophile and 750K class A.

 

[rw_designs]

Hello,
In terms of John Curl's Designs...

The Halo A23 is an upgraded version of the HCA-1000a. Again, better parts are used, but the performance difference is not vast.

If not Parasound, Aragon's 4004 MK II is an great amp for under 750 Dollars.
It was Designed by Krell Founder Dan D'Agostino. The 4004's replacement, the 8008 Series are fantastic, but are usually 1000 Dollars plus.
Cheers,
JJ

JJ,

I did mention the A23 was affordable to me but I read some great reviews and then one where the owner took it back because it sounded clinical and without dynamic range etc...
So thats why I mentioned that piece. I thought it was a strong contender.

I see the Aragon is high on everyones list. Discontinued? Having some trouble finding a place to buy but retail was/is 2500.

The Parasound A23 is a better bet for me financially. How close am I getting here? The P3 would make a beautiful pair with that amp but I worry when I hear bad reviews. Maybe I should discount that review altogether as being a one off...

I just wonder why nobody brought the Musical Fidelity brand to attention. I've noticed it's kinda low popularity among ML owners. The good thing is than you can get 550K Superchargers for $750 a piece from Audio Advisor. I personally own 550k and 750k and I'm in electrostatic heaven BTW, 550K recently called Class B in stereophile and 750K class A.

I have looked at the Music Fidelity line and they seemed pricey but I did not find enough info. I am running Prefaces not panels so I don't need hundreds but maybe 200 watts at 4 ohms.

 

[Jimna]

i also looked at the Odyssey Khartago , it is both affordable new and highly reviewed. might want to look down that avenue ron. i was going to buy it until this used emo popped up so cheap. i must admit the longer i have this emotiva the more it impresses me, i have no regrets with it.

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
The A23 will not have near the current as a 4004 would. Here are a couple of listings:http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1273081433&/aragon-4004-mk2-
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1272916826&/Aragon-4004-Mk-2--200-WPC-powe
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1274477560&/Aragon-4004-Get-a-legend-for-a

If this 8008 has not sold yet, I would literally leap on it:http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1273423725&/Aragon-8008-ST-Dual-Mono-Power
Cheers,
JJ

 

[conrad1]

thanks Jungle Jack!! :bowdown: Just put an offer on 8008 ST.

 

[rw_designs]

Hello,
The A23 will not have near the current as a 4004 would. Here are a couple of listings:http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1273081433&/aragon-4004-mk2-
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1272916826&/Aragon-4004-Mk-2--200-WPC-powe
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1274477560&/Aragon-4004-Get-a-legend-for-a

If this 8008 has not sold yet, I would literally leap on it:http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1273423725&/Aragon-8008-ST-Dual-Mono-Power
Cheers,
JJ

Thanks JJ...
Looks like someone else needs the amp.

 

[conrad1]

JJ,

Just read RW post and recognized I may have screwed up. If you wanted this just send me an e mail and we can figure something out.

ken

 

[rw_designs]

JJ,

Just read RW post and recognized I may have screwed up. If you wanted this just send me an e mail and we can figure something out.

ken

Ken if you want it please go ahead. I did contact the seller though. Question. Is the 8008 ST capable at 4ohms? I can't find much on it. Of course it is two channel right even though they say dual mono. Where were they made?
Thanks fellas.

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
The 8008ST will have absolutely no problems at 4 Ohms.
Here is the Stereophile Review of it: http://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/562/index.html
Cheers,
JJ

 

[repman]

I am not sure how the Preface speakers are voiced but if they have a bright top end this combination might drive you out of the room.

The many times I have heard this amp it sounded very bright to me.


Just my opinion.

 

[rw_designs]

I am not sure how the Preface speakers are voiced but if they have a bright top end this combination might drive you out of the room.

The many times I have heard this amp it sounded very bright to me.


Just my opinion.

They Preface are very revealing and I would say yes they have a bright high end but not overbearing. It's part of what I am going through right now trying to find an amp that will not have a shrill sound but is very clear and warm with alot of headroom. Any distortion or high end transients become very evident with these speakers. But I do not want to dumb down everything because I have clear speakers either.

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
I have used Aragon Amplification for over a decade with Electrostatic Speakers for over a decade and have never found the highs to be shrill or etched. Just a faithful reproduction of the signal. Associated Components can make an impact as to your experience as well.

Aragon's use excellent Parts and were made in America to built to exacting tolerances.
Cheers,
JJ

 

[repman]

Hello,
I have used Aragon Amplification for over a decade with Electrostatic Speakers for over a decade and have never found the highs to be shrill or etched. Just a faithful reproduction of the signal. Associated Components can make an impact as to your experience as well.

Aragon's use excellent Parts and were made in America to built to exacting tolerances.
Cheers,
JJ

I did not mean to insult you in any way , I was just pointing out my overall take on these

People like Bryston and Krell also but I find them to be on the bright side its just my opinion others my find them to be audio nirvana

 

[Jungle Jack]

I did not mean to insult you in any way , I was just pointing out my overall take on these

People like Bryston and Krell also but I find them to be on the bright side its just my opinion others my find them to be audio nirvana

Hello,
Heavens no. I in no way took any insult by your comments. Merely giving my experience with Aragon's. Everyone has different tastes in Components and what I might like others might not. And considering Aragon's 4004 was designed by Krell Founder Dan D'Agostino, it does not surprise me at all if you find the Aragon bright.

I will say with Aragon 8008's, the first 26 watts are in Class A and I have always found it to be a really nice sounding Amplifier.

What I really like about Aragon is the massive power supplies and amounts of Capacitance combined with being built in America.

To put in perspective, the Aragon 8008bb has a dual 1.2 kVA Toroidal Transformers and 140,000uf of Capacitance. Emotiva's critically acclaimed 5 Channel XPA-5 uses a single 1.2 kVA Toroidal Transformer and 60,000uf of Capacitance. The 2 channel 8008bb has twice as powerful a power supply and over twice as much capacitance as the XPA-5.

The 8008bb did retail for 2700 Dollars compared to the 799 of the XPA-5, but with used prices for Aragon 8008bb's sometimes being available for around a grand (usually 1200), I really think it is a fantastic value. As are all of Aragon's Designs. I especially like the pre Klipsch takeover Designs though the 8008 MK II and Palladium retained the same Design as when Mondial Designs owned Aragon.
Cheers,
JJ

 

[churchill]

You can pick up a used Pass Labs X150 for $1600-$1800 on Agon and then you won't need to upgrade for awhile!

 

[rw_designs]

JJ,
I did contact the seller on Audiogon about the 8008 ST but have not heard back probably sold it out from under me already. That was a sweet deal and thanks for pointing it out. I'm still hoping he will write back but I doubt it. Edit: It sold

Now guys remember these are Preface speakers not ES Panel styles when we talk about their behavior. Sometimes I think folks tend to think in terms of the ES panels when considering what I would like and brightness of the amps and all that. Not sure just seemed that way. I sure appreciate the help I am getting as it is a thick forest of gear out there.

I noticed that people like to shop AG for used gear too. Don't you get nervous dealing that kind of cash with just a hunch the gear and seller are good? Worries me a little but not overly so. Its like your running blind and have to take whatever happens in the end.

I spoke with Audio Advisor on the Parasound H23 amplifier and Halo P3 preamp for this system and the fella said that the power would be more than adequate as the Prefaces were very efficient and the sound would completely blow away what I am using now and that the caps were shot in my old Crown D-150A. On and on....probably true.

Well maybe true but still it sounds pretty good I would have anyone here anytime to listen and I bet they would enjoy. Truly folks! But I can tell pretty well having these new speakers that something is up with need for better gear. Audio Advisor said the A23 was just a less powerful version of the A21. Well I just thought I would throw that in as we spoke today. They thought it was a great match. And also its a 1700 dollar system yes I could buy a 4000 dollar system and have better but cannot afford.

Whats an audio geek to do?

Hey you know where I am right now and its a challenge for sure. It's that I am stuck between awesome speakers, a great Marantz SACD player and Turntable missing the middle! I think