What is transparent like ML, dynamic like a horn, and disappears like a mini monitor?

[MiTT]

Well call me baffled I guess.

I can understand buying a $200 Oppo based upon the reviews, but I can't imagine (myself) buying pretty much any of the gear in my system without having heard it somewhere so that I have at least a clue what it might sound like. Even better if I can hear it in my system.

Maybe I'm lucky enough to live in a town that has at least 4 High End dealers who all have loaner policies. Maybe it's also that I'm at a point in my system where I'm talking about $7500 pre-amps, $10,000 amps, $6000 CD players, $1200 interconnects etc. I can't afford to make costly mistakes at those types of levels, therefore, for myself at least, I just can't imagine buying something I haven't listened too, looked at, cogitated over etc.

Probably helps that I've been able to audition a LOT of gear at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest as well.

So I'll grant you that I may have several advantages in my case, but still, would you buy a car you didn't test drive for yourself?

I do use reviews to spot new things that look interesting to me or have the types of characteristics I look for in my system when I'm looking at an upgrade. I'm thinking about a Lyra Scala cartridge right now. I don't know of any dealer who will lend you a $4000 cartridge for an in home trial. But I'll keep looking for a place where I can listen to one before I plunk down the cash. Fortunately I travel a lot, so I'll find a dealer somehwere when I'm on the road if nobody in town carries them (although I believe Audio Federation is a Lyra dealer). If not, I'll consider other options - I'm not in a big hurry.

Maybe the instant gratification aspect has something to do with this???

 

[tonepub]

To take the analysis a bit further, Joey mentions that we publish nothing but good reviews on gear we like, but that's not completely the case...

What I'm trying to accomplish, especially for those of you that don't have a lot of access to as much gear as I do is to really try and define the character of a component. I don't see it as good or bad.

A bad component doesn't work properly or is shoddily made. The Thiel comparison is perfect, because at CES, a guy asked me what I thought of the new Thiels. When I said I didn't care for them, he promptly asked me what I liked and what my reference was. When I told him that I had a pair of Summits, he said "Well those speakers are JUNK..."

What you guys really need to understand is that so much of this is about personal preference and it just isn't valid to me to write a review about a pair of Theils or something else from another reputable mfr that is negative just because I'm not fond of the sound.

I spend a lot of time going to live music, amplified and unamplified. We have a drum set and a Steinway in the house, and while none of us are stellar musicians, it's good to have a real instrument as an absolute reference. There are some things that the Summits don't do right either and as far as I recall, the guy from Enjoy the Music said they are great as long as you only play acoustic music, that you couldn't enjoy rock or dance music with them.

As those of you who own these speakers and have the right amp know, this is not the case.

So in your rush for this onslaught of negative reviews, that review will probably keep a ton of people from INVESTIGATING Martin Logan speakers because one guy said something that really isn't true.

The same could be said for Thiel or anyone else. Unless I get something in like the Continuum, that just didn't offer a more musically revealing presentation than any of the other 20 thousand dollar turntables I've lived with, I don't get too surly with the manufacturers. Same if a product is really difficult to set up or beyond the capabilities of the average enthusiast.

If the product works well from an electronic standpoint, then it's all a matter of flavor and character and it's up to you to decide what 500 dollar bottle of wine you prefer. I'm not helping you as the reader, if I'm turning you off to stuff that could potentially be perfect for you.

The more you read our magazine and now that we are entering our fourth year, I think it's pretty easy to see what our individual biases are and by applying that to our rooms and choice of gear, you should be able to somewhat tell what we "like".

I just know when I got to spend five hours in Dave Wilson's chair and listen to his masterpiece, they offered up transparency the way I like it with my Summits, incredibly accurate tonality and were able to dissappear in the room like my LS3/5a's and that was truly incredible. I have never heard music reproduced in that lifelike of a manner.

Again, at the end of the day, I'm trying to help you find gear that you will enjoy and hope that we can be of some help in your journey.

 

[rtagle]

Mitt, I agree with you too, but what do you do when you want something that's new in the market and not available for review? The MP is made to order and Nova Physics could not keep up with the demand. I have been searching to find something like this, finally found one but seems impossible to audition. I have waited for a year and I think that I've read enough reviews, talked to the designer, and what the heck, I'm taking the plunge as I'm itching to hear it.
And by the way, while waiting, the price has gone up by $3k.

 

[Bernard]

I don't know of any dealer who will lend you a $4000 cartridge for an in home trial.

Keep looking, Tim. I once had a dealer lend me a $2,500 cartridge while I was waiting to take delivery of my Koetsu Rosewood from him. Okay, slightly different circumstances from yours as I had already plunked down the money for the Koetsu. I find that it really pays to shop at the same dealers; they give you loaners to try out.

 

[Rich]

I ordered the Memory Player by Nova Physics (NP) . . .

I certainly hope you will write up a review for us once you get it into your system.

 

[tonepub]

If only cartridges weren't so easily breakable......

 

[MiTT]

Mitt, I agree with you too, but what do you do when you want something that's new in the market and not available for review? The MP is made to order and Nova Physics could not keep up with the demand. I have been searching to find something like this, finally found one but seems impossible to audition. I have waited for a year and I think that I've read enough reviews, talked to the designer, and what the heck, I'm taking the plunge as I'm itching to hear it.
And by the way, while waiting, the price has gone up by $3k.

Well, I can also understand what you are saying. The Memory Player is a piece that would be incredibly difficult to find, and listen to, much less audition in your home. On the other hand, if we are talking about something still high end, but a bit more run of the mill, I'd personally need to listen to it, specifically in my system, before I spend the dough. I did that with my pre-amp and phono stage thanks to a very cool local dealer (Audio Unlimited) who practically insists that you borrow the equipment for an in home audition.

I personally would have a hard time buying something I didn't listen to myself, but it's obvious that I shouldn't make a blanket statement in that regard, depending upon the equipment in question.

BTW rtagl, I also don't believe you'll be disappointed. I've listened to the Memory Player twice at RMAF and, especially this past year, walked away mesmerized. How large of an internal RAM buffer did you get it with?

 

[MiTT]

Keep looking, Tim. I once had a dealer lend me a $2,500 cartridge while I was waiting to take delivery of my Koetsu Rosewood from him. Okay, slightly different circumstances from yours as I had already plunked down the money for the Koetsu. I find that it really pays to shop at the same dealers; they give you loaners to try out.

Exactly. I've been dealing with John Barnes at Audio Unlimited for years and, as I mentioned above, he practically insists that I take something home almost every time I visit, especially if I am even remotely considering a change to a piece of equipment.

As Jeff mentioned above though - expensive cartridges are a bit of a different kettle of fish.

 

[Joey_V]

Exactly. I've been dealing with John Barnes at Audio Unlimited for years and, as I mentioned above, he practically insists that I take something home almost every time I visit, especially if I am even remotely considering a change to a piece of equipment.

In that case, you're a lucky man, Tim.

When I actually make money, I'll begin to start patronizing the local dealers - for now, it's hard to do so when audiogon is right there and careful purchases often yield good results (especially if you go local).

Joey

 

[Joey_V]

To take the analysis a bit further, Joey mentions that we publish nothing but good reviews on gear we like, but that's not completely the case...

Again, at the end of the day, I'm trying to help you find gear that you will enjoy and hope that we can be of some help in your journey.

I understand exactly what you're saying Jeff... but I would still like to see some negative reviews.

You mention that a single negative review (of say the Summits) would turn away thousands.... well, look at it from another perspective - how do you think that a single positive review does not draw thousands?

I think it's because there is a large ratio between positive and negative reviews, readers are less likely to respond to a positive review than they are towards the "rarer" negative review.

Also, another way to look at it is this - how do you know that many will be turned off by a single negative review? Perhaps the same principle of taking each review as a subjective interpretation by one set of ears and adding a grain of salt holds true not only for the positive reviews we read but also for the negative reviews we encounter?

I still say bring on the negative reviews and set a precedent that elevates TonePub above the rest.

Of course, all in my opinion.

 

[rtagle]

I certainly hope you will write up a review for us once you get it into your system.

Will surely do!