Victim of box speakers is looking for electrostat salvation (CLS, VANTAGE, ODYSSEY)

[Bumbox]

After being in this hobby for over thirty years I found myself at the end of the road. Over the past couple of years I went through 6 speakers (Klipsch, Paradigm, Audio physic, B&W , Proac) 7 amps, 3 pres, 2 CDPs and 2 DACs but could not get out of my system the sound that I really liked.

Recently I had chance to listen to Summit and I was impressed by authenticity of sound, its fullness at low listening levels absence of harshness in the upper band and a decent bass.

After doing some research I ended up with three picks: CLSII +Depth, Vantage and Odyssey.

At my disposal I have Apollo, AIL1 and Bat VK3 pres, BAT VK 60, VTL 100, C-J MF2500A and Classe200 amps and a terrible listening room: 20x10ft bay window and glass double doors in short walls, fire place and 7ft opening in the long walls. I listen to rock/classical/jazz 50/40/10.
Any comments or suggestions are appreciated.

 

[Tube60]

I gladly offer you the use of my living room for your gear! I'll even let you stay on your vacations!
Welcome! Might want to consider some stand-alone diffraction / absorption panels behind whatever ML you choose. That should help with reflections off the windows.

 

[churchill]

Welcome aboard!

A pic of your room could help recemmendations?

 

[David Matz]

You probably won't get the most objective opinions here, but you probably already know that. I hate box speakers also. I hear the highs, mids, and bass all separate from each other. It takes a pretty expensive box speaker for me to enjoy it. I thought the $30K Magico that everyone raved about just ok. I would take either option you mention over a box speaker.

Your electronics should mate well with Logans. Both BAT and CJ work really well. Classe amps should power them nicely also.

As for the speakers, it would be ideal if you listen to them yourself. Some guys swear by "bigger panel is better" theory. Personally, I like the newer technology better, as the panel is integrated with the woofer seamlessly. Wayne (theWB) owned the Odysseys. He now owns the Summit and the CLS. Listening at his house, I liked the Summit better. However, CLS was amazing also - ithad a HUGE soundstage. No wrong choice here.

Ditto on the room comments. This is your biggest challenge, IMO. Check out the room treatments section on this site, and possibly post pictures.

Good Luck!

 

[User211]

I hate box speakers also. I hear the highs, mids, and bass all separate from each other. It takes a pretty expensive box speaker for me to enjoy it. I thought the $30K Magico that everyone raved about just ok. I would take either option you mention over a box speaker.

The V3s are a good box speaker, and they sounded pretty good to me when driven by DartZeel amps. But would I take them over a Summit? Nope. Especially when the V3 costs £25K here - more than a CLX. Very definately not as good.

 

[Bumbox]

I gladly offer you the use of my living room for your gear! I'll even let you stay on your vacations!
Welcome! Might want to consider some stand-alone diffraction / absorption panels behind whatever ML you choose. That should help with reflections off the windows.

You have to be careful. I really like California I might move in especially in winter.:ROFL:
I was thinking about room treatment. Should the panels be same hight as the speakers?

 

[Bumbox]

Welcome aboard!

A pic of your room could help recemmendations?

Thanks! I will post room pics tonight.

 

[twich54]

At my disposal I have a terrible listening room: 20x10ft bay window and glass double doors in short walls, fire place and 7ft opening in the long walls.

Any comments or suggestions are appreciated.

Welcome and glad to hear you're thinking about joining the rest of us "Loganites" !

I do think though that untill you get your room acoustics in the best order possible you will not be happy with whatever your speaker choices are based on what you have stated.

I suspect once you get a pic or two posted, then Ethan, Jonfo, DTB300 and some of the other 'room treatment gurus' will be able to point you in the right direction.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Hi Bum,

Any reason a used pair of Summits is not on the list?

GG

PS: Used pair on the gon with upscale finish (wedge and aluminum rails) for $6,500. Finish upgrades are probably $1,500 or so, maybe higher. This ad has been posted for awhile so you might get a stupid, silly deal.

GG

 

[CCH]

Am I wrong, or has the price for a used pair of Summits been inching up lately? Back just before Tweeter went out of business, I got a store demo pair with aluminum rails and a full warranty for just under $5k. There were a couple of others for sale then and in the weeks after--partly under pressure of the Summit X announcement, I suppose--for about the same price or just a bit more. More recently, I've seen prices running in the $6,500-8,000 range. Perhaps it means nothing, but I've wondered if the launch of the X at the higher price point is now elevating the value of used Summits. Anyone else have a perspective on this phenomenon? Of course, it is entirely possible that I have too little data upon which to base such an observation. It might just be a coincidence. In any case, the relative cost of a pair of Summits is of course of interest to someone looking to buy a ML speaker today.

 

[Bumbox]

Welcome and glad to hear you're thinking about joining the rest of us "Loganites" !

I do think though that untill you get your room acoustics in the best order possible you will not be happy with whatever your speaker choices are based on what you have stated.

I suspect once you get a pic or two posted, then Ethan, Jonfo, DTB300 and some of the other 'room treatment gurus' will be able to point you in the right direction.

Thanks.
Im afraid there are a few things that can be done to my room that was crafted for music lovers.

 

[Bumbox]

Here are the pics of my room. L=19ft, W=10.5ft. Windows=7ft, doors=5ft, fireplace=5.5X2ft

 

[Bumbox]

Hi Bum,

Any reason a used pair of Summits is not on the list?

GG

PS: Used pair on the gon with upscale finish (wedge and aluminum rails) for $6,500. Finish upgrades are probably $1,500 or so, maybe higher. This ad has been posted for awhile so you might get a stupid, silly deal.

GG

Gordon,
My choice is partially base on what is available locally. Summit will cost me 5.5-5.8K+ 20% (thanks to our government) without shipping. Listening to speakers at a show room and living with them is not the same and at this point I don't want to spend more than 3.5K in case if it does not work and I can sell them without loosing large amount of money.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Hi Bum,

Given the pictures, I understand the challenge.

Given your budget, have you considered going for a high quality mini-monitor speaker on stands with sub. The Usher Be-718 or equivalent comes to mind.

A couple of reasons for the recommend:

1) Much smaller footprint and will not visually dominate the room.

2) Given the smaller size, should be more room acoustically friendly regarding exciting room resonances, read not "overloading" the room.

From my personal perspective, after viewing your room photos and with all due respect, I would seriously reconsider the ML models you are considering. Having owned the CLS, they really need some room to sing. Would eliminate that model immediately. CAP and other CLS owners will hopefully chime in. Same for the other models on your short list, to a lesser degree, in light of your room size / performance issues. Have you looked at the ML Source or the Aerius.

Best regards and good luck.

Gordon

 

[Bumbox]

Hi Bum,

Given the pictures, I understand the challenge.

Given your budget, have you considered going for a high quality mini-monitor speaker on stands with sub. The Usher Be-718 or equivalent comes to mind.

A couple of reasons for the recommend:

1) Much smaller footprint and will not visually dominate the room.

2) Given the smaller size, should be more room acoustically friendly regarding exciting room resonances, read not "overloading" the room.

From my personal perspective, after viewing your room photos and with all due respect, I would seriously reconsider the ML models you are considering. Having owned the CLS, they really need some room to sing. Would eliminate that model immediately. CAP and other CLS owners will hopefully chime in. Same for the other models on your short list, to a lesser degree, in light of your room size / performance issues. Have you looked at the ML Source or the Aerius.

Best regards and good luck.

Gordon

Hi Gordon,
Actually I was afraid that SLC would not work in my room and since you confirmed it they are off the list. I was thinking about mini monitors as well and I was considering Totem Mani 2 or Dynaudio C1 but I’m afraid that mini-monitors would not fill my room. My room is quite tricky. Because of the big wall opening almost 30% of the space of my house affects wave propagation. I doubt that Aerius would work in my room. Only speakers that have substantial low end extension don’t sound lean here.
Thanks

 

[twich54]

Is there any way you can "give" that room to the wife in exchange for a better one ?? I now see your dilema !

 

[Beakman]

That room looks like a perfect match for Linkwitz Pluto's, Omnistats, or any other type of small, omni / multi-directional speaker.
When I was a kid, my room was about 16' x 20' of second floor, gambrel roofline (ceiling), plaster walls. I would fool around with speaker placement, reflecting, speakers in cardboard shipping barrels, anything out of the ordinary. I could get some good and worthwile effects using the walls and ceilings. Bigger or direct sweet spot is not always the answer.

 

[Bumbox]

Is there any way you can "give" that room to the wife in exchange for a better one ?? I now see your dilema !

There is no better room in this house, they are all pretty bad. Dining room is too small for music, bedrooms are small too. The only room that is a little bit better is a master bedroom. I'm pretty much stuck with this room until we move in new house.

 

[C.A.P]

As Gordon has said the CLS need breathing room. They like at lest a 15 foot wide room to get them out to breath and give that HUGE sound stage. If they get to close you get a beaming sound. The huge opening on the one side will also play havoc with Stats. Cones do not have the rear wave to bounce all over and phase things up as bad. I like the Summit if you can get a cheap deal. The sound is INCREDIBLE. I listened to them in a smallish room with Audio Research tubs and was blown away. I think the older designs have merit but with the cost of the new stuff used its a no brainier. Don't get me wrong I love the classics like the Quest or Monolith. , I had a pair that I modded and sold to a guy in Toronto of all things. They just are GONNA NEED NEW PANELS. No two ways around it.

I also would look into room treatment. Its the single best investment that you can do. It can make or break a system.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Hi Bum,

If you need some low end to add "weight" to the sonic equation, you might consider a subwoofer as I had suggested before.

I would think a high quality mini monitor on some good stands with one or perhaps two subs (to smooth out the overall room response) would, if integrated properly, kick some serious butt in that room.

Another consideration for the mini monitor is the new Paradigm Signature. Goes for about $1,600, which would leave you some dollars for one or two subs and fit your target budget.

GG