System #200 (Vantage)

[sjwjanssen]

Sir, thats one very nice setup. Great room!

 

[music again]

Distance between speakers

First of all . . . . BEAUTIFULL system!!

I just purchased a pair of Vantages and a Descent i a few weeks ago. Unfortunately, there were some issues with both and my dealer is replacing the entire system! I still have use of them until the new ones arrive. The panel on one of the speakers goes out if touched in any way. It comes back when not touched. Strange.


Anyway, my question is . . . . how far apart are your Vantages, measured say from the INSIDE bottom woofer box where they are toed in. Of course room accoustics have a LOT to do with it, but I find that if I go beyond about 60", the pin point vocals, and imaging in general is not as good.

Thanks!

 

[paulo m]

Anyway, my question is . . . . how far apart are your Vantages, measured say from the INSIDE bottom woofer box where they are toed in. Of course room accoustics have a LOT to do with it, but I find that if I go beyond about 60", the pin point vocals, and imaging in general is not as good.

Right now they are 7.5ft/225cm apart, measuring from the front right corner of the left Vantage to the front left corner of the right. The bottom of the panels are 3.5ft/105cm from the front wall. The listening position is 9ft/270cm away from the plane defined by the two speakers. The back wall is 2ft/60cm behind the listening position, except that I sit in front of a recess which is 2.5ft/75cm deep and 7ft/210cm wide. This backwall configuration is quite challenging, but there's not much I can do.

 

[music again]

Vantage woofer noise AND Power Conditioners/Cables

Thanks for the reply on the spacing of the speakers in your room.

I just received my Vantages not so long ago, and I may have mentioned that they have a problem with one of the panels cutting out, so both are soon to be replaced. I have an observation from both Vantage pairs I have had at my home, that being the first demo pair the dealer let me keep for 4 weeks prior to mine arriving, and the pair I now have. BOTH pair exibit a rather loud low noise when on standby, that I can describe as a rythmic woowooowooowoo that is very noticible to me. So much so that I am unplugging them when not in use. I have the basic $85 Monster AV strip I bought with my TV, before I ever knew I was going to get the Vantages!

So my questions are . . . . do you experience this "noise" from your Vantage woofers?

I was rather skepitcal of all this "clean" power" and "re-generated power" talk, with power conditioners and power cords costing more than some electronics, but now I'm staring to rethink this. I see that you are using Shunyata's Hydra 4 and power cord. From your experience, what exactly do you gain from these two pieces?

Remember I'm just getting back into this hobby and things have changes considerably since the late 80's!! I'm reading everything I can get my hands on, including my recently received copy of Music Direct's catalog, which has quite a few Shunyata products in it.

Thanks for the insights!

 

[paulo m]

So my questions are . . . . do you experience this "noise" from your Vantage woofers?

None at all. I think you may have a ground loop in your system. Try disconnecting every component from each other and from the wall, then connect only the power cables of the speakers. This should give you an indication on whether the woofers and their amps produce the noise on their own (there should be none). Assuming there is no noise in this configuration, gradually add components one by one until the noise reappears.

I was rather skepitcal of all this "clean" power" and "re-generated power" talk, with power conditioners and power cords costing more than some electronics, but now I'm staring to rethink this. I see that you are using Shunyata's Hydra 4 and power cord. From your experience, what exactly do you gain from these two pieces?

Silence that is blacker, improved soundstaging by preventing excessive "bloom". In my experience, none of the digital sources I've tried "like" the Shunyata, causing the sound to lose some of its airiness. You should try the units and see if you like the results. As with everything else, it's a question of synergy and, more importantly, personal taste. Make sure you try all combinations of components connected to it and connected to the wall. Add the Richard Gray units to the list, what they impart to the sound is slightly different than the Shunyatas.

 

[rudyslb]

Hi Paulo !!!

Great looking maple vantages... That's what I'm ordering (too bad I can't find them immediately... I have to wait 6 weeks).
Great Looking system and room

regards
Rodrigo

PS: Are you Brasillian?

 

[paulo m]

PS: Are you Brasillian?

Nope, portuguese.

 

[paulo m]

I've pondered getting a DAC-1 for a long time and the only reason I didn't get one is that the Meitner DAC is making me itch.

An update on the above--I've heard the Meitner transport and DAC in a system that had everything to be absolutely wonderful (Mark Levinson 33 monoblocks driving Watt/Puppies). The overall sound didn't impress me much, and certainly not at the price the combination commands.

At this point I'd be hard-pressed to get anything other than the Esoteric D-05 DAC.

 

[Joey_V]

An update on the above--I've heard the Meitner transport and DAC in a system that had everything to be absolutely wonderful (Mark Levinson 33 monoblocks driving Watt/Puppies). The overall sound didn't impress me much, and certainly not at the price the combination commands.

At this point I'd be hard-pressed to get anything other than the Esoteric D-05 DAC.

But how are you able to dismiss the Meitner without hearing it in your system?

 

[paulo m]

But how are you able to dismiss the Meitner without hearing it in your system?

Granted, I haven't done so, however I tried it in a different system (same impressions) and in the meantime have heard other Esoterics and other players. Let me put it differently--if there is one available to listen to on my system, I will gladly try it out, but I won't go out of my way to get one to do that.

 

[Joey_V]

Granted, I haven't done so, however I tried it in a different system (same impressions) and in the meantime have heard other Esoterics and other players. Let me put it differently--if there is one available to listen to on my system, I will gladly try it out, but I won't go out of my way to get one to do that.

The ultimate test for any component is in your system since it is the one you're most familiar with. Without doing so, you're left with a lot of confounding factors which may sway the sound for or against your liking when heard in a different system.

 

[tonepub]

Very nice system!!

Well done....

 

[paulo m]

The ultimate test for any component is in your system since it is the one you're most familiar with. Without doing so, you're left with a lot of confounding factors which may sway the sound for or against your liking when heard in a different system.

Of course, except when other key components are in the process of being replaced and then all bets are off. The most you can do is an educated guess through exposure to the equipment and at some point take the plunge. And the education level of my guesses at this point unquestionably favor Esoteric, which was my point.

 

[bsckwan]

Great looking system! :bowdown:

I've just upgraded to the Vantage (from the Aerius) and using Pathos Logos and a Sony DVP-S9000ES DVD/CD/SACD player. The sound was not too bad before especially when playing SACD. However, the Vantage is revealing a lot of the short coming of the source. The sound became very hard and not very pleasant to listen to.

Time to upgrade to a proper CD/SACD player......I think...

Does the Vantage required any burn-in time?


Cheers!

Brian

 

[paulo m]

Does the Vantage required any burn-in time?

Yes. My system took a few months to settle down and it never sounded good until I upgraded the CDP to the Esoteric (8 months after getting the speakers and amp) and the cables (3 months after getting the Esoteric). Given the timings of those upgrades and the required break-in for the individual components, it took about a year to get to a stage where it sounds quite good.

If we talk about the Vantages only, I would expect them to fully break-in after some 200 hours of use, maybe double that if you don't listen to music very loud. I also noticed that things got better after a full cycle of the seasons (i.e. enough humidity and temperature swings).

 

[bsckwan]

Paulo,

Thanks for the info and thats good to know.

BTW what are those wooden platform you are using for the Pathos and Esoteric?

Did you consider the SA-60 before going for the X-03? I'm wondering because X-03 needs to turn the DSD into PCM but I guess the final sound is most important. I'm considering the X-05 which is suppose to be coming out soon as well.

Cheers!

Brian

 

[paulo m]

BTW what are those wooden platform you are using for the Pathos and Esoteric?

They are the plain Mapleshade stands.

Did you consider the SA-60 before going for the X-03? I'm wondering because X-03 needs to turn the DSD into PCM but I guess the final sound is most important. I'm considering the X-05 which is suppose to be coming out soon as well.

Yes, I did, but the X-03 is in a different league than the SA-60. All that matters is the sound... (and I would only upgrade to the X-01 D2 or the P-03/D-03 combo). I suggest you compare the X-05 with the X-03 just to confirm whether you really like it (and the same would apply to the P-05/D-05).

 

[bsckwan]

Overloadin Pathos' input

Wondering if you have any issue with your source overloading the Pathos' input. I have a Marantz SA-7S1 and the output seems to be too high for the Pathos especially when using XLR input.

 

[paulo m]

Wondering if you have any issue with your source overloading the Pathos' input. I have a Marantz SA-7S1 and the output seems to be too high for the Pathos especially when using XLR input.

No problems whatsoever. Music is louder coming through the XLR inputs, but that is a normal occurrence.

 

[paulo m]

ML Vantages on the way out...

I'm getting a pair of Analysis Audio Amphitryons this Sunday (a good way to start the year, I agree ). I am therefore putting my trusty ML Vantages for sale (strangely that leaves me nostalgic, must be all the good memories) and with them gone, I will no longer be a Martin Logan owner. Even though until my post a couple of days ago I was off the forum for about 2 years (you blink and bam! 2 years fly by!) I wanted to thank everyone for all the good, the sad, the fun and the serious discussions. So long (and thanks for all the fish!).