Switch to Spire from Revel Salon I?

[Gordon Gray]

Average Joe and other things

Hi Shark,

I appreciate your input on my post but I would suggest that FF is not an "average Joe". Any hi end retailer should be able to determine if someone is merely kicking the tires versus a client who is seriously considering buying a product.

How many Average Joes do you know that own Meridian / Clayton electronics, and Revel speakers?

I agree that some sort of financial security is appropriate to secure an in-home audition and did not preclude this possibility when I made my statement. To clarify, I consider this standard protocol. I apologize for not making this clear in my first post.

For the dealer to not suggest this as a way to allow for an in-home suggests an elitist attitude. I assume that this was not done and if it was, I assume that FF would have gladly understood and agreed to this arrangement.

I've purchased all of my current hardware, absent the Summits, on this basis. After having owned the CLS's, the Aerius, and the SL3's, I didn't need the assurance of an in-home audition.

I certainly understand your position given the environment created by the Internet. I would suggest that each dealer needs to make the decision (to loan or not loan for an in home audition) on a case by case basis based on trust, knowledge of the potential buyer, and other appropriate factors.

Best regards,

Gordon

PS: Regarding your post about the 40 hour break in period, within the context of "serious audiophiles" and based on having four different ML models over the past 25 years, I totally disagree with your opinion.

 

[tonepub]

And who knows, you might prefer your current speakers better....

At least now you have some peace of mind. Also pretty nice of the dealer, because they will have to sell them as B-stock should you return them.

 

[twich54]

you will have to use a sub with the Spires to even compete with the Solan's in the bottom end of the music.

"use a sub with the Spire's to even compete".....LOL ! with a competent sub that's an absolute no brainer, it then becomes....can the Salon's compete !!

 

[houstonshark]

Gordon,

It was never my intent to suggest that FF was an average Joe but realistically to the dealer with whom he has never (I'm guessing) met prior to the Spire audition and since he has likely not purchased anything from the dealer he could quite possibly be an average customer off the street. Look, If I had a dollar for every customer who told me they had this or that or was going to buy this or that I would be lounging on a beach somewhere. There are a lot of weirdos out there in this industry who read these forums and talk about high end stuff who still live at home with their mom and their "high end system" consists of some cheap Klipsch speakers their dad bought 35 years ago powered by a Kenwood receiver.

If the dealer neglected to mention their return policy to FF it was probably because he was afraid they might get returned for no good reason. I used to run a now defunct big box retailer who sold some pretty decent stuff (I left before they went under so don't anyone make a joke that it was my fault We would routinely get items returned on the 28-29th day after the purchase especially around Super Bowl time. Customers would come in and buy all sorts of stuff to try to impress their friends at their party and then return it afterwards.

Pretty much everyone has a return policy. We have a 7 day return or 30 exchange for like new products.

As far as breaking in the Spire, I respect your opinion as you clearly do have a lot of experience breaking in ML speakers over the last 25 years. It is personal preference in regards to break in.

In the last 6 months I have broken in 4 pair of Spire, the speaker FF was asking about and in my professional opinion the magic occurs in the 40-50 hour period. Of course they will continue to improve up to and beyond 150-200 hours but in my very recent experience with this particular speaker the biggest improvements occur early on.

FF is trying to evaluate these speakers and has limited time to do so. He would be perfectly happy with the sound after 40-50 hours even as a "true audiophile" and should be able to easily make a decision on these speakers.

 

[favrefan]

The speakers were delivered today, and already one of them is not working. Perhaps some of you have an idea what went wrong.

I hooked both speakers up per the instructions, and started to play music. Everything was working fine. I left music playing while I worked at my office. The system was set on a moderate volume. When I returned home, one speaker did not appear to be working. The Martin Logan logo was not illuminated. I did all the usual switching around to isolate the problem, and determined it was in the speaker.

When I plug in the power cord, the red status light comes on and remains lit for about 30 seconds. It then fades out. The ML logo never illuminates. Only a very faint sound can be heard from the speakers. When I turn the volume way up, the sound out of the speaker increases, but it is still relatively faint and sounds distorted.

I have already talked to the dealer, and he is going to switch out the pair.

I am, however, curious if any of you have experienced a similar problem and what the problem might be.

I am also now wondering whether it is a smart idea to have a powered speaker.

Thanks for any feedback.

Jeff

 

[Gordon Gray]

Hi FF,

Sorry you had the negative experience.

If it's any consulation and as many on this forum will tell you, ML customer service is exceptional.

Hope Pair No. 2 works without any hiccups.

GG

 

[David Matz]

Sorry to hear about problem. I had a problem with a Vantage when a speaker stopped working. The blue light did not go on. It was determined to be a defective power supply board. The part was shipped immediately, and I was in business after swapping the boards. Despite losing 4 days of listening, I was very impressed with the customer service response.

 

[tonepub]

UGH!

That's the way it always goes, you get psyched to hear something new and then it breaks. You are now ready to start a new career as a hifi reviewer!

But seriously, ML is one of the best and they will take care of you right away.

Everything breaks now and then, the true test is how the mfr handles it.

Here's to good listening when you get the speaker repaired....

 

[Mantana]

Hi,

I recently bought a pair of Spires, my first electrostatic.
I also own a pair of PBN Montana EPS2 speakers. First off,
the EPS2s are incredible and only 18 months old...i should
have had my head examined for buying more speakers, but i have
owned 2 different versions of the Montanas over 11 years
and always wanted a pair of Martin Logans, so i took the plunge
figuring i would sell the Montanas. Yes, the Spires are a
little faster and mored detailed and i really like that. But
the Montanas throw up a nice wide soundstage (you can
place them far apart and get great center fill) and they are
really dynamic, very full sounding and SMOOTH, never
fatiguing. Now the Spires are great sounding and dynamic
too. I keep flipping back and forth between the two speakers
and on some songs i prefer one to the other. I don't plan
on selling the Montanas now though i wish they weren't so
heavy (150lbs). I like having two speakers and enjoy switching
out between them. You'll love the Spires if you have the right
electronics, plus they're so portable. You won't throw out
your back moving them around. They image really well
and on well recorded music can sound stunning. Get
"Ian Anderson Plays The Orchestral Jethro Tull"...it sounds
incredible on the Spires, perfect in fact. I can't imagine it
sounding any better regardless how much more i spend.
The Spires really excel on well recorded music.

M

 

[houstonshark]

so what's the verdict? how do they sound? what are you doing with the Revel Salon? I personally think that Revel messed up by simplifying the new Salon. I'm sure they sound good but they now look like every other box speaker (except for the strange curved fascia).

 

[favrefan]

I got the replacement speakers from the dealer and have been running them 24/7 to break them in. At this point, they have about 160 hours on them. From what I have heard so far, the Spires have a clearer midrange and top-end. The Spires image much better. They Spires sound lighter and crisper. The Salon I's are more robust sounding. I believe the Spires are a worthy successor to the Salons.

A more interesting comparison has been comparing the Spires head to head with the Barefoot Sound MM27. The MM27 is a 3-way stand-mounted active speaker and is the current darling of the pro audio world. I keep going back and forth, trying to decide which I prefer. The MM27's, as one would expect from a speaker designed to be a recording studio monitor, are extremely transparent and image very well. They also have great bass output for a small speaker. I get to audition the MM27s for a couple of more days, and am hoping that at some point one speaker will emerge as a clear favorite.

 

[David Matz]

I got the replacement speakers from the dealer and have been running them 24/7 to break them in. At this point, they have about 160 hours on them. From what I have heard so far, the Spires have a clearer midrange and top-end. The Spires image much better. They Spires sound lighter and crisper. The Salon I's are more robust sounding. I believe the Spires are a worthy successor to the Salons.

Hi Favrefan,

The Logans have always had that "Stereophile class A" rated mids and highs. The bass integration improved greatly in the last 2 generations.

What is your room like? I'm wondering if the greater robustness you hear is due to the room, to bigger bass engineered by Revel designers, or a bit of both. Some people over - engineer the bass to make up for a lacking room, or maybe they believe it's the right way to reproduce the bass. Who knows which is "right" or more "accurate"? One thing you could control is your room, though.

Also, what's the pricepoint of the Barefoots?

 

[favrefan]

In saying the Salons sound more robust, I am not speaking about bass. I am talking about the presentation of an image. As I said, the Spires sound lighter and airier. The Salons sound fuller, with images being more solid. I think this is more of a function of the Spires being more extended at the top end than the Revels, as opposed to the Revels being more extended at the bottom end. Overall, I think the Spires sound more real than the Salons because of this greater bottom-to-top range and their greater transparency.

In terms of bass, you can hear all of the same bass with the Spires, but you feel it more with the Salons (and the MM27s). This should not come as a surprise. The Salons were designed to be a true full-range speaker, and boast 3 8" bass drivers as well as a 6.5" mid-bass driver. But I have to admit that I have been surprised at how well the Spires sound down low. The Spires performed the Apollo 13 launch scene just fine.

The Barefoots cost about $7,000. If they are your cup of tea, that is a bargain, because you get top-notch sound and can avoid the cost of an amplifier and speaker cables. But you do have to have interconnects that have enough length in them to reach from a pre/pro to the speaker.

 

[Mantana]

Curious....what did you finally decide on, the Spires or
the Barefoot Sound MM27s ?

 

[David Matz]

In saying the Salons sound more robust, I am not speaking about bass. I am talking about the presentation of an image. As I said, the Spires sound lighter and airier. The Salons sound fuller, with images being more solid. I think this is more of a function of the Spires being more extended at the top end than the Revels, as opposed to the Revels being more extended at the bottom end. Overall, I think the Spires sound more real than the Salons because of this greater bottom-to-top range and their greater transparency.

Another explanation for this is that the Spires are very transparent / revealing of the electronics. If the "thinner" image signal is sent to speaker, that is what it will produce. I use CJ, and I don't have any of the issues you describe. That synergy...

So what are your thoughts so far?

 

[favrefan]

I have all but decided to go with the Spires. When I have more time, I will provide a full explanation.