Summit X and which sub? Descent i or Depth i

[beek]

I dont think taste and science mix well, in my experience the larger the main
Speaker the lower the sub x/o freq. Or else things get too mushy.
System on 30 ft long wall x/o at between 40-50 depending on the recording.

 

[RUR]

I dont think taste and science mix well, in my experience the larger the main
Speaker the lower the sub x/o freq. Or else things get too mushy.
System on 30 ft long wall x/o at between 40-50 depending on the recording.

I think generalizations are dangerous, since folks' gear and implementation vary widely. Using a highly configurable crossover, I've tried a lot of permutations - various overlapped high and low-pass, as well as a wide range of crossover frequencies. The clearest, best-sounding bass I've found occurs when I let the better-equipped subs handle everything below 80-100Hz, which has the added benefit of reducing distortion from the Summit woofs caused by LF duty. Currently using a 24th order LR @ 100Hz and it's anything but mushy.

 

[GW1800]

Dealer is bringing two descents on Friday. We will try one at a time. He thinks with size of room one will do it. Anxious to hear the results

Mmc

 

[beek]

I think generalizations are dangerous, since folks' gear and implementation vary widely. Using a highly configurable crossover, I've tried a lot of permutations - various overlapped high and low-pass, as well as a wide range of crossover frequencies. The clearest, best-sounding bass I've found occurs when I let the better-equipped subs handle everything below 80-100Hz, which has the added benefit of reducing distortion from the Summit woofs caused by LF duty. Currently using a 24th order LR @ 100Hz and it's anything but mushy.

Completely agree

 

[MOON]

GW1800,

When I previously just had one depth sub, I found it to work the best right between my Odyssey's in the center, the same distance off the wall behind the Odyssey's , 5 feet.You may want to give that position a try with 1 descent and see what you think. When I had the single sub, I tried it all over the room and that was the best place.Let us know how you make out.If you have Enya - Watermark, song 10 has extremely low bass in it.

Cheers, Greg

 

[twich54]

GW1800,

When I had the single sub, I tried it all over the room

ah yes the 'sub crawl' technique, without correction / eq software probably the best route to go.

 

[churchill]

I agree with Ken! I've tried many crossover slopes and have moved mine up from about 55 HZ to 88Hz using a 24 dB slope and it sounds fantastic!

 

[RUR]

Dealer is bringing two descents on Friday. We will try one at a time. He thinks with size of room one will do it. Anxious to here the results

Mmc

Based on your OP, you appear to have no ability to EQ the sub(s). Without such EQ, two subs, properly placed and phase-adjusted, will virtually always provide a flatter response than a single. If I were in your shoes, I'd buy two. Depths or Descents no matter, unless you're listening at very high volume and/or prefer more bass content than is strictly accurate. Nothing wrong with that, BTW. :devil:

 

[GW1800]

Rut

Your are right I have nothing to help myself and the ML subs come with no help either. Many other subs have electronics that come with the sub. Fortunately my dealer is very knowledgeable and is coming to help place and dial in. I do agree that I like the idea of two better but the dealer wants to try one first. He will have the other one along if needed. We have already discussed other placement options for the second one. He was here to setup the original eq. He has been real good and trust his judgement.

Mmc

 

[Hocky]

The 25/50 knobs are majorly helpful in smoothing the response without eq.

 

[GW1800]

Well the dealer showed up Friday.........

We unboxed one and put it on the left side between the equipment and the summit(this is on the narrow end of my room). He proceeded to dial it in and then we listened to several songs with good bass. The improvement was just as I had hoped - just the low end with no negative impact to the summits themselves.

We then hooked up my old velodyne back about 8' from the front along the right longer wall (so 90 deg. to the front sub). It only took a couple of songs to realize that another sub added a solid and noticeable impact. So we unpacked another(man these things are heavy) and he dialed this one in. The thing we immediately saw was that during his dial-in process the second sub smoothed-flattened the room response he managed to get 20-80 within+/- 1 hz which I thought was pretty good.

Anyway I'm very happy the bass is full, solid and deep just as intended. Oh just as a note we ended up at 45hz for the crossover 55 was too high.

MMc

 

[GW1800]

would of thought by now there would of been several additional comments. In reviewing this forum both the main and pictures of systems I see very few Summits with one sub let alone two. I can tell you with confidence that as good as the summits are this kick in the lower end improves the musical experience. I reviewed Summits system pictures yesterday and many did not have any subs some dual purpose systems of course did but generally only one.

I can't do this any more but with the lower end is so nice it would be a good experiment to try two subs with Summit X's and then with the new Monthis. I got a feeling that the Summits would come out ahead but it maybe so slight that the savings in $$ would out way the sonic improvements. Any thoughts????

I'm waiting for a swap for one of the Descent i wood tops so that they both match once this happens I will be posting pictures of my system.

MMC

 

[tsv_1]

Glad it's working out for you. In my 2-chan room (when I had Xs), I simply could not have imagined a need for any more low end. It was plenty with just the Xs. I had windows rattling and people complaining... but the bass integration was excellent (not like it was boomy or over-bearing).

Anyway, could just be my room (suspended wooden floor) that helped in my situation. Can't speak for others, but have certainly seen plenty of comments from owners stating they simply found no need for sw augmentation with Summits or Xs).

Now, if I can just get my CLX+sw integration dialed in right...

 

[RUR]

Todd, I wonder how many folks have actually a) measured LF FR @ 24 or 48ppo and b) experimented with crossovers (not just the subs low-pass), multiple subs and EQ in an effort to discover just how much of an improvement can be achieved.

Can't cheat the laws of physics and best location for mains imaging is never the best location to manage modal behavior.

 

[tsv_1]

Todd, I wonder how many folks have actually a) measured LF FR @ 24 or 48ppo and b) experimented with crossovers (not just the subs low-pass), multiple subs and EQ in an effort to discover just how much of an improvement can be achieved.

Can't cheat the laws of physics and best location for mains imaging is never the best location to manage modal behavior.

My guess would be that a significant minority do anything more than cursory testing to determine acceptable integration and sw placement. In my case, in my room, with the placement of my Xs, I was getting exceptional integration and LF performance... to the point where I felt any further potential gains (via augmentation) were not worth the effort. I was having some brightness issues though which were independent of the LF integration and, ultimately, became a factor that led me to transition to CLX.

 

[GaryG]

I wonder how many folks have actually a) measured and b) experimented with crossovers (not just the subs low-pass), multiple subs and EQ in an effort to discover just how much of an improvement can be achieved?

Great question. I would also add room treatment to the discussion but since the OP was on subs I understand leaving room treatments out here. I have moved, listened, measured... Moved, listened and measured again... For some time now I have been at 4 subs and an 80 Hz crossover just listening and enjoying.

Gary

 

[beek]

Out of curiosity what is everybody using to measure/monitor their Sub and room interactions?
I am still in the stone age with an analouge s/a.

 

[RUR]

I have moved, listened, measured... Moved, listened and measured again... For some time now I have been at 4 subs and an 80 Hz crossover just listening and enjoying.

and I'll bet it sounds terrific.

Out of curiosity what is everybody using to measure/monitor their Sub and room interactions?
I am still in the stone age with an analouge s/a.

Bill, I've used XTZ and the Dayton Omnimic. Room EQ Wizard (REW) is another excellent, relatively low-cost choice.

/Ken

 

[beek]

Thanx Ken will take a peep at XYZ

 

[RUR]

Bill, take a look @ Omnimic, as well. Available @ Parts Express. Both have some features the other does not, but on balance, I prefer the Omnimic.

If you go XTZ, Acoustic Frontiers is the only US dealer I know of, though you can buy direct.