See What makes the summit tick?

[Dragonfly]

Now if only they could sexy up that ugly looking box.
One has to agree with socialxray ,pity about the ugly looking box if only ML could do something about this hideous cabinet.
The panels look handsome and I bet they sound awesome too.

 

[roberto]

still have thier sound in my head...

Hola chicos. Let me say something again. The worst thing that I have in most rooms are the standing waves...and normally they are always from 22 Hz to 66 Hz. With the Summit you are allowed to kill this unwanted waves and "fine tune" your room for the best bass response. You have at their´s back, two controls, one at +- 10dB @ 25hz and another at +- 10dB @ 50 Hz!!! This is a true high-end, best sounding ML speaker that I have ever listened to...the detail, the image, the scenario, the timbre, the size of the instruments, the delicated detail in the strings...the percussion, the winds, the maderas, the guitars, the piano, the voices, wow, I´m still in heaven!...I just wish that you could have one of these for yourself!!!...the panels are really something. There is a little, but very little vibration when they are played very loud. I spent over one hour and a half listening to them at the Vegas´Show. Not five minutes...playing all type of music, from classical to rock and boy! these are the ones! I can´t help it...as I am in love with my CLS2z, I´m in love with these little monsters too!
Happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[Peter_Klim]

Hola chicos. Let me say something again. The worst thing that I have in most rooms are the standing waves...and normally they are always from 22 Hz to 66 Hz. With the Summit you are allowed to kill this unwanted waves and "fine tune" your room for the best bass response. You have at their´s back, two controls, one at +- 10dB @ 25hz and another at +- 10dB @ 50 Hz!!! This is a true high-end, best sounding ML speaker that I have ever listened to...the detail, the image, the scenario, the timbre, the size of the instruments, the delicated detail in the strings...the percussion, the winds, the maderas, the guitars, the piano, the voices, wow, I´m still in heaven!...I just wish that you could have one of these for yourself!!!...the panels are really something. There is a little, but very little vibration when they are played very loud. I spent over one hour and a half listening to them at the Vegas´Show. Not five minutes...playing all type of music, from classical to rock and boy! these are the ones! I can´t help it...as I am in love with my CLS2z, I´m in love with these little monsters too!
Happy listening,
Roberto.

Hola Roberto,

Always a pleasure to hear you chime in!

Is it difficult to be involded with selling MLs (or if you don't have it in stock, then having heard a set) that sounds better than the set you own? In other words, when you get home and listen to your system, doesn't it leave you wanting more, and in return take away from your listening enjoyment?

This question can apply to everyone here who has a great system: Does listening to a better system than the one you currently own leave you wanting more, and in return take away from your listening enjoyment? Maybe not for the ones who are looking to upgrade, but even I feel (and know) there is something better. So I simply just stay away from listening to these better systems. Am I making sense?

The only reason I upgraded my last system is because my brother asked me to help him purchase his. I did, and ended up getting one for a lot less money that sounded better than mine. That's when I started to upgrade mine (and I'm glad I did!!).

This all reminds me when I purchased my 1st new car, an Acura Integra, and while finishing the paperwork at the dealership, my brother kept nudging me to turn around and look at the NSX. I refused to look at it knowing that the Integra was not even close to being in the same league.

 

[SugarMedia]

In other words, when you get home and listen to your system, doesn't it leave you wanting more, and in return take away from your listening enjoyment?

This question can apply to everyone here who has a great system: Does listening to a better system than the one you currently own leave you wanting more, and in return take away from your listening enjoyment? Maybe not for the ones who are looking to upgrade, but even I feel (and know) there is something better. So I simply just stay away from listening to these better systems. Am I making sense?

"The world you desire can be won, it exists, it is real, it is possible, it can be yours. Fight with the radiant certainty and the absolute rectitude of knowing that yours is the battle for any achievement, any value, any grandeur, any goodness, any joy that has ever existed on this earth."
-Ayn Rand-

 

[roberto]

sound of Summit in my brain...

Hola chicos...and Peter, you can't have always what you want, but you can enjoy very much what you do have, right? The Summits were something that I'm with them in my brain, but this does not means that I am not enjoying what I have. Besides, I'm a very lucky person because I work with ML. I have a lot of toys to play with, and I can say that each model has their own sound. And I like that. The Summits are made for people that likes to adjust carefully the sound of the room. They do have very deep bass, and the panels are the best as I told before. They are easer to use because of their adjusting controls. we can not do that with our models, so we have to "move around the room" to get the best sound and get along with the standing waves. I don't read here anybody besides me regarding them and and their sound and I don't understand why it is this. There must be some of you who have had the chance also to listened to them...all I can say is...this is my liking, and what I liked not necesarily has to be your liking...we all agreed here in this forum something for sure: how we enjoy ML and the love for music!!! I trust in my ears more than a sound meter (any) and how a spanish classical guitar sounds also. The Summits are not perfect, but they are getting closer to what we are serching...the truth!
Happy listening,
Warm regards from Costa Rica, my friend!
Roberto.

 

[rtagle]

Hi ML Club Members,

What Roberto just said is what the ML people told me this evening (was it you Roberto?). The Summit's advantage over other speakers is that you can adjust the deep bass according to your liking and the sound of the room.

I just came from a Cocktail Party hosted by the ML Signature Dealer in Torrance. The ML technical people were there including the founder Gail Martin Sanders. They showed the Summit! Before I render my impression let me tell why I went there.

I bought the Summit (without hearing them) from this dealer because I had been impressed with the MLs. Three weeks ago, I went there to listen to the Summit and I was totally disappointed. It was boomy and the sound was not as good as the Odessey and had the chance to buy before the Summits came out. Before I left for the cocktail party, I visited this website and read that someone went to Digital Ear in Tustin and listened to the Summit. He had the same impression and found them boomy also. So I went tonight to confront the ML people with all my issues on the Summit. When I got there and heared the Summit, my jaw just dropped. It was AWESOME! In my opinion it truly surpassed the sound of the models it replaced.

It was indeed a big relief specially after hearing Mr. Sanders explain how the speakers were made and the quality of the materials that were used to make them. I can't wait to have mine installed this week!

So when you get the chance to audition and Summit somewhere else and find it boomy, etc. rest assured that they were just not set properly.

Happy listening,

Rudy

 

[risabet]

Dealers need to get it together!

Rant On!!!

Speaking only for myself I am rapidly growing tired of dealers who set-up a circa $10,000 speaker system and can't/won't take the time to make them sound right. Martin-Logan ought to guarantee that a demo of their flagship product shows off that product correctly. It can be done, Linn has had a program for years to make sure their products are correctly demo'd. Yes, it takes both time and commitment from both the dealer and the company but at these price levels we should expect and accept nothing less.

Rant Off!!!

 

[rtagle]

I believe the ML people are doing that. I don't know if they can cover all their dealers all at once. At the cocktail party that I got invited to last night, I heard ML had their technician flown in that day to make sure that the Summit was sounding the way it should and it did!

 

[Craig]

I wish I could get an invitation to a party like that! The last party I went to involved a rented Karaoke machine (need I say more?).

 

[roberto]

you are too much...lol

Hola Craig. You are too much...well there are some parties and I would like to be invited also...lol.

Back to the Summit sound, there are some dealers that like a big bass energy through all the room. I was kicked off some time ago from the Mark Levinson demo´s room because I said that there were too much bass. Mark Glazer came to me, he saw my badge, and exclaim: Gentlemen, (I was there with my partner at that time Mr. Pedro Rey) please, would you go out of the room? That was in the year 1982 in the Summer CES at Chicago. 10 years after that I was at Vegas show, and went with my new partner at that time also, Mr. James Saxon, and I got a very different treatment from Mr. Glazer. He didn´t remember me, but of course I did remember him. He was showing us all his latest products I was ahead of all his comments regarding them. He asked me why I knew so much regarding Mark Levinson, and I explained him that I used to service all their goods in Costa Rica. Also I asked him why he had such cheapy components made in Malasia, having here in America the best available and quality. He spent over 2 hours with us, and we became their representatives here in Costa Rica.
They had in 1982 the HQD system (Hartley subs, Quad midranges, Decca ribbon tweeters) and they where playing a 2 track open reel tape recorder at a speed of 3O IPS. The bass was so big!!! like a star wars movie effect. Because I said it was that big, I was kicked off from the room. So, don´t worry about the invitations...there are good and bad.
The good thing here is that the Summits are great speakers...and as soon as I can, I will love to have them with me!!! You can tune your room very easy, and get what you want at the lows...and the sound of the stats are the best... as goods as many other ML...clean, trasparent, no veil, right size, very dymanic, timbre just there, resolution incredible, inner detail breath taking, image right, scenario one of the best...I´m really very happy with this kind of product...one of the best in the whole marketplace!
Regards from Costa Rica, my friends and always trust your ears!
Happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[kwr]

Speaking only for myself I am rapidly growing tired of dealers who set-up a circa $10,000 speaker system and can't/won't take the time to make them sound right. Martin-Logan ought to guarantee that a demo of their flagship product shows off that product correctly.

This is my pet hate in audio. Dealers who are incapable of showing off a product. Turning up the volume and saying "doesn't it sound great" doth not a demo make.

I realise rooms are designed to confound set up rules but Martin Logan should be able to present information to enable people to set up the speakers. The buyer of a set of speakers at this price level is more likely than not to appreciate basic setup rules and may probably only need some help with final finessing and bass management. I suspect the boomy issue is predominantly bass management and a setup guide with calculation of room nodes,suggestions for positioning , an included Radioshack meter and disc with corrected test tones could well assist in setting up. It could all sit on their website bar the meter.

The cost to ML has to be minimal. Their "technician" could probably put together a sophisticated online guide in very short order.

Speaker manufacturers have no control over the rooms their speakers are put in. Virtually all the systems that have wowed me have been in people's homes - not a dealer demo. Good sound is their best advertisement.

Kevin

 

[roberto]

yes, you are right!...

This is my pet hate in audio. Dealers who are incapable of showing off a product. Turning up the volume and saying "doesn't it sound great" doth not a demo make.

I realise rooms are designed to confound set up rules but Martin Logan should be able to present information to enable people to set up the speakers. The buyer of a set of speakers at this price level is more likely than not to appreciate basic setup rules and may probably only need some help with final finessing and bass management. I suspect the boomy issue is predominantly bass management and a setup guide with calculation of room nodes,suggestions for positioning , an included Radioshack meter and disc with corrected test tones could well assist in setting up. It could all sit on their website bar the meter.

The cost to ML has to be minimal. Their "technician" could probably put together a sophisticated online guide in very short order.

Speaker manufacturers have no control over the rooms their speakers are put in. Virtually all the systems that have wowed me have been in people's homes - not a dealer demo. Good sound is their best advertisement.

Kevin

Hola Kevin...you are right when you say that they can not control the room. This is the key for the Summits...they are the best as room friendly. They are going to be easy to set up in any room, because of the controls for the bass energy in your room. First of all, we move them to get the best for scenario, right? But many times, where we have the best of it, we hate the bass response due to the standing waves and your room, right?...with the Summit we can control this far better than any other model available...with this, the Summitas are a clear winners!...and their performance is one the most musical speaker that I have ever listenen to...

True is that what I like does not mean that you have to like it too. It is a matter of taste...of your own liking...and the bad thing for us who likes the good natural sound, many dealers what they like is boom blast and see your ears moving around...and when they played the part of which it is dramatic, they say: kool, ugh?...
I just would like to know which musical instrument is capable to do that next to you...I played long time ago with a rock group...so I know what it is to play loud...but never at a levels that me ears hurts...I was an electric fretless bass player and electric guitar. It was a lot of fun...as it is now with our systems. What I love from ML is that I can have the musician playing for me, in my own room...and this is not easy to do.
the truth is the we love music and the sound of ML!!! any model!!!
Happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[jjqiv]

I heard a quick audition of the Summit's last night at Magnolias in San Jose. They were running off a B&K processor, B&K 200 watt mono blocks, expensive AQ cables, and a some universal player. In a word: BRIGHT. In a another word: compressed. They did offer a very wide sound stage, a solid center image, and prodigious bass. It was definitely a very HI-FI type presentation. It was not what I would call a very musical presentation. Though, I bet with a proper front-end and amplification, they would sound wonderful. The very crystalline, over etched top-end did have an initial WOW factor that I am sure will catch many ears. It would be such a shame if people buy these speakers and place them in a system of similar caliber as the demo. They did have a cheap turntable set-up in a Sonus Fabor system in the same room. To bad they did not have it connected the Summit system. Die digital, die!!!

 

[DTB300]

I heard a quick audition of the Summit's last night at Magnolias in San Jose. They were running off a B&K processor, B&K 200 watt mono blocks, expensive AQ cables, and a some universal player. In a word: BRIGHT.

That has always been my impression of the B&K stuff. I know a lot of folks that rave about it, but each time I have heard it over the past few years, I just did not like it.

Like you said, would be interesting to hear with some different electronics. I will have to stop by my local store to see if they got their Summits in yet or not. It will be interesting to see what they mate them up with, but I would almost guess it will be the Krell stuff as they typically hookup Krell to their top of the line stuff. Sorry Krell fans, I am not a Krell fan either (older Krell amps, yes, but not the newer stuff).

Dan

 

[Reverb2009]

That has always been my impression of the B&K stuff.

Me too, I find B&K bright, forward, very dynamic, I typically call them a poor mans Krell . I would say your not hearing the speakers; you’re hearing the electronics.

 

[roberto]

Hola amigos...do you think that what you listened and didn't like was due the the electronis that they were using?...because I'm still in shock with the Summits for good...thanks, and happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[rtagle]

This is my pet hate in audio. Dealers who are incapable of showing off a product. Turning up the volume and saying "doesn't it sound great" doth not a demo make.

I realise rooms are designed to confound set up rules but Martin Logan should be able to present information to enable people to set up the speakers. The buyer of a set of speakers at this price level is more likely than not to appreciate basic setup rules and may probably only need some help with final finessing and bass management. I suspect the boomy issue is predominantly bass management and a setup guide with calculation of room nodes,suggestions for positioning , an included Radioshack meter and disc with corrected test tones could well assist in setting up. It could all sit on their website bar the meter.

The cost to ML has to be minimal. Their "technician" could probably put together a sophisticated online guide in very short order.

Speaker manufacturers have no control over the rooms their speakers are put in. Virtually all the systems that have wowed me have been in people's homes - not a dealer demo. Good sound is their best advertisement.

Kevin

In fairness to the ML dealers showing the Summits, remember that this is a new product with some new features. Everybody goes thru a learning curve on the proper setup, etc. Even ML will go thru a learning curve in manufacturing the Summits.

I'm sure the ML people are taking notes on the differences in the sound, placement, etc. of the Summit that they are encountering in the showrooms, living rooms and even in the plant. And once they've seen and heard everything, they will all put it together and share it with everyone...dealers and users alike. That is how perfection is achieved!

So please don't be too harsh to the dealers because I'm sure, even ML will make adjustments along the way!

rtagle

 

[jjqiv]

Hola amigos...do you think that what you listened and didn't like was due the the electronis that they were using?...because I'm still in shock with the Summits for good...thanks, and happy listening,
Roberto.

Hola!!!

Without a question, the negativity of the sound was most likely due to electronics and digital front-end. I bet they would sound just dandy in my home. It is a dis-service to ML to have their high-end speakers auditioned with mid-fi electronics. The first thing the guy did when I demoed them was to crank them. Ouch! Digititis! I can get away with those volume levels at home without the ear burn. Though I seldom do.

Based on the demo, I would say that they might have a little more air and sparkle that the CLS's. So hard to say with demos.

Looks wise, they are rather plain jane looking in the room. They had black fronts and a light birch finish. They definitely pull more of a disappearing act then past designs. You do not really even see the woofer boxes unless you walk right up to them. They don't draw your eye towards them as much as past designs. But, looks are not why I buy speakers. If you want beautiful looking speakers, the expensive Sonus Faber's are the way to go.

 

[jjqiv]

Me too, I find B&K bright, forward, very dynamic, I typically call them a poor mans Krell . I would say your not hearing the speakers; you’re hearing the electronics.

I found the B&K/Summit set-up lacking in macro and micro dynamics. It was more flat and blaring. Never heard the comparison between Krell and B&K before. I have found Krell CD players and pre-amps to sound bright. I have heard Krell amps with other front-ends and did not think they sounded bright.

 

[roberto]

I feel much better now...

Hola!!!

Without a question, the negativity of the sound was most likely due to electronics and digital front-end. I bet they would sound just dandy in my home. It is a dis-service to ML to have their high-end speakers auditioned with mid-fi electronics. The first thing the guy did when I demoed them was to crank them. Ouch! Digititis! I can get away with those volume levels at home without the ear burn. Though I seldom do.

Based on the demo, I would say that they might have a little more air and sparkle that the CLS's. So hard to say with demos.

Looks wise, they are rather plain jane looking in the room. They had black fronts and a light birch finish. They definitely pull more of a disappearing act then past designs. You do not really even see the woofer boxes unless you walk right up to them. They don't draw your eye towards them as much as past designs. But, looks are not why I buy speakers. If you want beautiful looking speakers, the expensive Sonus Faber's are the way to go.

Thank you for your words. Yes, you are right, when the speakers are not set with the right electronics, the sound is bad. Many times, when I didn´t like something and I did after, was due to electronics or bad placement. I think it is very important to use what we consider right or what we like. As I have said it before, you have to trust you ears!, and use what you like. Everything is a matter of liking. And this does not means expensive. There are expensive goods that I don´t like, and I know that they might have a great reputation in the audio circle. When I audition the Summits at the Vegas Show, at the begining, they were behind a curtain. When you walked in the room, the curtain was closed, you got an explination of the new speaker and all the new advantages over other models, construction, looks, sound benefits, specs...etc, then the curtain started to open and there they were...at the begining, my first impression was, wow, they are so owgly!!!, but the more I looked to them, I started to liked them...and more when they began to sing with the music! I jumped off my chair, and started to play with them and making Mr. Scotty Wenzell to go crazy with me!!! He said, please Roberto!!!, let me finish my presentation!...I was so exited and asking many questions all at the same time. I played with the knobs at their´s back, and got what I like...incredible bass, clean, super fast, without coloration because of the controls that let you to adjust the standing waves of the room. I know that there are many musicians with ML and read this...and they know that the F# and the A# at the bass, guitar or many other instruments, resonates louder than other notes...right? Well, they do this perfect. The Summits are one of the most musical speakers that I have ever listened...and that it is why I still have them in my brain...the CLS are very good on this also. So, I did like what I listened there...and I was wondering if you have the same feeling that I have.
I just love music and why not, I love the sound of ML!...makes my soul very happy!
Warm regards to all of you, ML lovers, from this crazy Costarrican guy!
Roberto.