Martin Logan Panel Repair Available In Germany

[Rich]

Interesting you say that, Rich. My information is that ML re-builds the legacy panels using the new technology.

I didn't say it. Rob Zimmerman said it in his explanation about the cost increases of replacement panels. Here are the relevant excerpts:

We must achieve the proper dielectric relationship between all of the components (tape, diaphragm and metal) in each stat panel, which is different between models, this is especially true with legacy panels as we learned and improved over the years.

. . .

Each MartinLogan speaker model’s particular electronic crossover and individual power supply is designed (from inception) based upon how a particular adhesive affects and interacts with the perforated metal and diaphragm components contained within the stat panel. The adhesives we use have changed over the years, but because of the above factor, MartinLogan must use the precise original adhesive and adhesive carrier to insure consistent performance throughout the life of the speaker.

. . .

Also, MartinLogan’s costs go up exponentially when we are forced to order in smaller quantities (after a product is discontinued), and the raw metal materials we use for current panels has changed considerably from past generations of panels. When volume declines on our purchase orders to our metal and adhesive suppliers for these legacy products, we can always expect to see a price increase.

So they have to use the same type of metal, mylar, and adhesives to obtain the same dielectric between the three, as determined by the design of the specific model. So what "new technologies" are they using in legacy panel replacements? Clear spars vs. the old style of spar? Big deal. That is purely esthetic and has no impact on functionality or longevity.

 

[jmschnur]

I did not see that the original PET had to me used; only the adhesives. Is there a further discussion of the film in his email?


J

 

[Rich]

I did not see that the original PET had to me used; only the adhesives. Is there a further discussion of the film in his email?

It is not an email. It is a post on this forum in the sticky thread on Legacy Model Support. There is little discussion of the mylar in the post, but reading through the lines of the comments in the post above, it sounds like the mylar, metal slats and adhesive must be the same as the original to maintain the same dielectric between those three properties. Again, I am not positive on that as there has been little discussion from ML on this issue. I am not aware of any great advances in the mylar product and its conductive coating since the legacy models, or even whether any such advances would be able to be used on panels for the legacy models due to the dielectric matching issue.

 

[jmschnur]

Lot of progress but I am not sure if ML is using the new films .
60 year high humidity resistance films are now out there.


J

 

[Len44]

Yeah, be nice if ML could pop in now and then -- but (to quote Buddy Holly) "I Guess it Doesn't Matter Anymore."

 

[Peter Soderberg]

We do care. WE all are aware of the situation and if one can wave a wand, this wouldn't be a matter at all. I am not in ownership of that wand so can not comment directly on actions, but know that none of us on this site like it. To be honest, some of the dialogue has dipped below reasonable, making it hard to weigh in. Unsubstantiated charges, name calling is counterproductive. Contrary to what some may think, the people that designed, built and service the products have not changed over the years and still desire to serve our customers well. Accounting realities aside, there is no change in our basic goal of making good products.

 

[User211]

It is not an email. It is a post on this forum in the sticky thread on Legacy Model Support. There is little discussion of the mylar in the post, but reading through the lines of the comments in the post above, it sounds like the mylar, metal slats and adhesive must be the same as the original to maintain the same dielectric between those three properties. Again, I am not positive on that as there has been little discussion from ML on this issue. I am not aware of any great advances in the mylar product and its conductive coating since the legacy models, or even whether any such advances would be able to be used on panels for the legacy models due to the dielectric matching issue.

Interestingly, Maggie use mylar for their ribbon speakers. Apogee used and still use Kapton - which is NOT hygroscopic. However, it doesn't last forever.

Peter - you have my empathy. I'm sure most realise the pricing decisions are made by only a small part of the company.

 

[Len44]

We do care. WE all are aware of the situation and if one can wave a wand, this wouldn't be a matter at all. I am not in ownership of that wand so can not comment directly on actions, but know that none of us on this site like it. To be honest, some of the dialogue has dipped below reasonable, making it hard to weigh in. Unsubstantiated charges, name calling is counterproductive. Contrary to what some may think, the people that designed, built and service the products have not changed over the years and still desire to serve our customers well. Accounting realities aside, there is no change in our basic goal of making good products.

Peter, Thank You for weighing in. It IS appreciated. I even (even I) agree with the general thrust of your comments. (Although, in reality not ALL of the folks in the Customer Service arena are still there, without explanation. This troubles many of us.)

Now, can you (or someone at ML) please provide SOME insight regarding whether or not updated materials are now being used in new products, and/or in replacement panels? What is the ML plan to allay the community concerns regarding the longevity of ML speakers / replacement panels? What about some of the considerations mentioned by members to consider a revised warranty period due to the questionable life panels?

Thanks for caring enough to answer. It is time for ML to engage.

 

[edwinr]

We do care. WE all are aware of the situation and if one can wave a wand, this wouldn't be a matter at all. I am not in ownership of that wand so can not comment directly on actions, but know that none of us on this site like it. To be honest, some of the dialogue has dipped below reasonable, making it hard to weigh in. Unsubstantiated charges, name calling is counterproductive. Contrary to what some may think, the people that designed, built and service the products have not changed over the years and still desire to serve our customers well. Accounting realities aside, there is no change in our basic goal of making good products.

Thanks, Peter. It is kind of hard to post on this site now without getting your head bitten off...

 

[amey01]

Peter, Thank You for weighing in. It IS appreciated.

+1...

Thanks for caring enough to answer. It is time for ML to engage.

+2.....

 

[zaphod]

meaningless comment removed - had a small case of blindus paranoius

 

[Rich]

We do care. WE all are aware of the situation and if one can wave a wand, this wouldn't be a matter at all. I am not in ownership of that wand so can not comment directly on actions, but know that none of us on this site like it. To be honest, some of the dialogue has dipped below reasonable, making it hard to weigh in. Unsubstantiated charges, name calling is counterproductive. Contrary to what some may think, the people that designed, built and service the products have not changed over the years and still desire to serve our customers well. Accounting realities aside, there is no change in our basic goal of making good products.

Peter, I don't think any of us have questioned the integrity and professionalism of long-time employees that are still with the company trying to produce the best speakers possible. We have and will continue to seriously question management's decisions and the motives for those decisions, especially when they are contrary to the history of customer service and quality, high end products ML is known for. And particularly when they seem designed with profit motive as the driving factor vs. the quality of the product or the quality of the customer experience. We understand it is just as difficult for you guys seeing it happen from the inside to a company you know and love. And we understand that your ability to express your true thoughts and feelings on current managerial decisions is limited lest you lose your job. We feel your pain and don't mean to criticize you directly.

I will say that I don't have a lot of faith in anything Justin tells me, because although I am sure he is a great guy, he is not a long-time ML employee and his entire job is to push the company PR line. So ultimately we are limited in the honest factual information we get from ML insiders. That is why you see a lot of speculation anytime ML makes a controversial management decision. We have to take the limited information we have and guess about the rest based on logic and rational inference. We all take some abuse for our beliefs. When I stood up for what I thought was right when ML discontinued legacy support for some models, I was lambasted on this forum for not giving them the benefit of the doubt. When management changed their tune on that and apologized for their error, I felt vindicated. But with the recent across-the-board price hikes in replacement panels, the size of which I don't believe are vindicated by the circumstances, and the timing seeming just a little too coincidental, I feel that management is just trying to accomplish the same goal in a (theoretically) less controversial manner. This leaves an equally bitter taste in my mouth. Combine that with ML's recent focus on the lower end, higher volume products, and I am seriously concerned they are going the way of Infinity, Klipsch, and so many others. If that is the way management wants to go, there is nothing dedicated insiders like you can do to stop it.