Problems drivning vantage

[Reenberg]

Hi all, I have just bought a pair of vantages to substitute my old quest’s and would love some information on how hard they are to drive.
Here is the story. I have owned a set of ML quest for many years, and they have been driven with a local brand tube amp to my great satisfaction ( 6l6GC triode app. 20W ( Lundal ( 6000ohm/4ohm), mundorf, 3 tube front stage. All in all real high quality ) but need some changes ;-).
So I bought a pair of vantage, hooked up the amp and put some music on. The sound was dull and muffled and not even close to my old setup ( not terrible, just not good enough ). With an old Accuphase (which really need some restoration) they are better, but still not as god as the Tube/Quest setup.

So the question is. Has anyone tried something similar going from older ML’s to a active model ? It’s surprise me a lot that they are SO hard to drive.
Thanks

T.

 

[TomDac]

something is most definitely wrong. The newer active MLs are much easier to drive. I've owned both Sequels and reQuests and now have Summits and there is no question that the active MLs are easier to drive. It sounds like the panels are not getting power.

 

[eknuds01]

Agree with Tom. Since you had to unhook the cables, maybe one (or several connections) are loose at the speaker and/or the amplifier in question.

I would verify all connections. If possible swap out the cables and re-try. Next step is a different amp that you KNOW works beforehand. Try that with the different cables.

If it's still not sounding right, it's something in the speaker. Without question, the new MLs are easier to drive since the woofers tend to be powered. Also, verify the power cables are working OK and properly connected. You can also try cleaning out the contacts in the amplifier. Sometimes dirt and debris can get into the RCA socket and this messes up signal output.

Erik

 

[Bernard]

This is not addressing the problem, but I'm surprised that a 20 Watt amp drove the Quests satisfactorily.

Are the Vantages new or used ? Are the bi-wire jumpers in place?

 

[roberto]

Hola. Actually you need about 1/3 of the power to have the same sound pressure level that your old Quest had. The sensitivity of your new Vantages is 92dBs/2.83V/meter. You can use amplifiers with rated power as low as 20Watts/channel with nice sound. Something must be wrong. Please re-check all what other friends said regarding connections. Happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[Reenberg]

It is not that they don’t work, they do. But it’s one or two steps backwards in sound quality. They were bought used, but look fine. I guess that as long as the panels make sound they work.
But quality wise my quest gives me goose bumps when they play, female voices sounds awesome and so dos well recorded jazz. The vantage sounds like.. well, just a mid price speaker (And I know they should’nt *s* ) So it must be a amp. mishmash

For the quest’s… Yes 20W from my tube amp is enough in my apartment to play way too loud. I once had a pair of rogue m-150, no doubt that they could give a deeper slam, but the sound was not so smooth and detailed as with my 6l6gc amp ( driven directly from a benchmark DAC1 )

I will find yet another amp and try with that *s* ( the hunt newer stops….)

 

[twich54]

What power do you folks have in Denmark ........50hz ?? from what country of origin are your speakers ??

maybe I'm grasping at straws, but having owned Vantage's in the past I know full well of what they are capable of, as the others have said go back and recheck everything.

FWIW, even with the easy to drive Vantage's a trully capable tube amp is required to produce top notch upper freq without roll off.

 

[jmschnur]

What power do you folks have in Denmark ........50hz ?? from what country of origin are your speakers ??

maybe I'm grasping at straws, but having owned Vantage's in the past I know full well of what they are capable of, as the others have said go back and recheck everything.

FWIW, even with the easy to drive Vantage's a trully capable tube amp is required to produce top notch upper freq without roll off.

Yes impedance is below 1 ohm at the high frequencies.

This can lead to problems for some amps

 

[Spike]

Yes impedance is below 1 ohm at the high frequencies.

AFAIK, this 1-ohm impedance exists in BOTH models: the above mentioned Quest and Vantage. The OP asked why he was able to get satisfactory results with the Quest but not with the (supposedly easier to drive) Vantage. I AM grasping for straws here... Maybe the "local brand" tube amp does not get along with the Class-D (internal) amp of the Vantage.

Spike

 

[jmschnur]

Could be dirty panels. I find frequent vacuuming helps my Vantages

 

[Reenberg]

First thanks for the help, I just need to hear that I was a fool if I thought the quest’s was better ;-).

First I hooked both pair of speakers up on my Accuphase ( p-300 ) so I could switch fast between them.
This time they sounded right. The Vantage DO play louder at the same volume setting ( sounds like way more than 2-3 db ) When compared directly the vistas have a firmer bass, more details and wider sound image. The quest have a bit more volume in the midrange and this warm creamy sound .

Bottom line is that the vantage IS a great speaker and need a really good amp and source. On the Accuphase they sounded so close to each other that I often was in doubt of which one I was listening to.

 

[roberto]

Hola... as I remember the Quests and the REquests were granted the best mid range of the world ( I think was The Absolute Sound or Stereophile in the 90s). Those still are a great sounding speakers. But the new tech of ML gives us more dynamics, air, detail, easy to drive, effortless music with new drivers and Micro Perf panel. I can listen old recordings with great 3D sound. Stage is wider and our sweet spot is more open and friends sitting next to you can enjoy the wonderful sound of ML too. Yes, the Vantages are great speakers and great value for what they provide. They are the selling best model here in Costa Rica. A jewel to have!!!. Happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[Reenberg]

I agree, the mid range are sublime on the quest's. One thing that is still not in place is that when i'm NOT sitting in front of the vantages ( standing (Im 1.90 tall ) in front, or in one of the other rooms ) i loos a lot of the midrange.

When comparing the sound in the rest of my apartment the quest did a much better job ( guess the big panels DO matters ). Not a major issue, but still an annoying.

Sitting in the sweet spot the tone and resolution is great. Right now the amp is the weakest point I think.

 

[Reenberg]

Just bought a new amp. DOXA signature 140 ( Solid state from Norway ).

First impression, we are back in the high end. Could be a dash better, but it clearly shoved that my tubeamp wasn't a god match for the Vantage.

I will rebuild the tube amp for a better fit, but this system will be good enough for a long time ( and I could live with it )

The DOXA is a funny amp. Inside it's quite obvious that it's hand build, but it sounds great. It has a smooth midtone and plenty of power. It's hardly get hot, even after many hours of music ( max 35 deg celcius ). The resolution on the Vantage is truly amazing

 

[Reenberg]

After a week i still thought I was missing something, maybe a god pre so I modified the the Benchmark DAC one slightly ( changed the c13/14 capacitors to Auracap, see diyaudio if interested ( Salas modifications ) ) and WOW now it's there. The DOXA is rely a great amp, it has a slightly warm tone, but not like the tube amp. The resolution is way more detailed compared to the tube amp and with plenty of room. Biggest problem is now bad recorded CD's... they are becoming anoying to hear... but all in all this is a big step up from the tube driven quest's.

 

[roberto]

I am using a Perreaux power amp made in New Zeland I think, to drive my center channel and I do like what I listen. I have the Benchmark DAC One too. I will check that mod.
Give some time to your Vantages... as older they get, they become better to sing along with tons of detail and sweet sound. Good to know that you are back to your sound track. Happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[Reenberg]

Just got a Rogue Audio Cronus, ( 55W el34 integrated ) and this little baby bought some of the magic back in the system. I had the m-150 ( 4*kt88) from Rogue audio on my old quest's without being impressed, but this combo really sings....

 

[Reenberg]

And now I have bought an old Radford STA-15 tube-amp, THIS old fellow is a really good match with the Vantages, now they sings as they where meant to.

The Radford needed new electrolytic capacitors in the power supply (2*50uF Mlytic) and some of the wires needed to be changed or re soldered. Beside that its amassing how weel a 50 year old amp behave and sound.