Polishing the Turds

[User211]

I think Martin Logans hardly ever appear in studios. Therefore, the chances are the recordings you listen to were never optimised for them. And again, one person's optimisation won't be the same as another's due to hearing differences etc. Yet there seems to be general consensus as to what great recordings are, such as Pink Floyd's DSOTM (low frequency issues aside).

MLs to some extent are as much a victim of their mid-range as they are it's benefactors. I think they gain/suffer from what I call hyper-resolution in the mid-range.

When David said that ML ESL mid-range beats anything under $30K, I knew where he was coming from. It's a mid-range sound that is not shared by other technologies, and if you love it, there's no way you'll be swayed by other technologies unless they can at least get close and better it elsewhere.

I think the best systems sound unbelievable with the best material. Not just tonally, but in terms of resolution/lack of distortion/imaging etc. But they don't make poor recordings sound terrible - they let it pass without stuff that is so unplesant you can't sit in front of it. It's clear, but it's clear it isn't clear i.e well recorded.

I'm starting to get interested in audio history. I'd love to walk down a hall with 10 systems going back in time. In each room, the most recent first, a system with a sound judged typical for the decade resides. I'd wager, when you got to the oldest room, you'd be pretty amazed by what you heard, even though you thought the technology was a turd. But if it sounded so good, you have to ask yourself, was it really a turd?

I want one of those old cylinder based TTs. A really nicely made one with some unplayed cylinders. I think I might get one.

 

[Gordon Gray]

I agree with Jeff regarding the "house sound" of Sonus Faber speakers.

Although I've never had a pair in my house for long term evaluation, I've listened to numerous models at shows and at various SF dealers.

To me, they are voiced towards the romantic side of the sonic equation. Certainly pleasant to listen to but I have personally found them to be unengaging.

GG

 

[Mantana]

i don't know about the other Sonus Fabers but the Cremonas
are known for being very detailed with high resolution and
(supposedly) accurate. I found them to be a bit forward but
nice on some material.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Hi Mantana,

With all due respect, describing any speaker as "accurate" is an oxymoron. Way too many variables between the actual speaker design and how it ultimately sounds in your room. Amp, preamp, source, cabling, room acoustics, etc. and their interaction thereof.

Unless one works for a speaker company and replicates the complete "beta testing" environment of the actual speaker in their own personal listening room, the speaker will sound different. So what may sound accurate to one designer's ear is clearly altered when that speaker gets inserted into another system.

That's where the fun is. Finding the combination of electronics, cabling, room treatment, and other such things to maximize the speakers strengths and your enjoyment of all those design attributes.

Sounds to me that you may like the additional "warmth" of your Montana speakers and find it to be more musical and less fatiguing. That's fine. Having said that and as we all know, the ML's can be ruthlessly revealing. Some like that and others don't.

GG

 

[User211]

I'd wager, when you got to the oldest room, you'd be pretty amazed by what you heard, even though you thought the technology was a turd. But if it sounded so good, you have to ask yourself, was it really a turd?

I want one of those old cylinder based TTs. A really nicely made one with some unplayed cylinders. I think I might get one.

Hm - just re-read this. I am NOT saying a cylinder based TT is going to blow your mind or sound amazing. What I should have said is "by the time you get to some of the older rooms".

Still, I would like one of those old record players.

 

[amey01]

Hm - just re-read this. I am NOT saying a cylinder based TT is going to blow your mind or sound amazing. What I should have said is "by the time you get to some of the older rooms".

Still, I would like one of those old record players.

I would too. And I would love to have the 10 or so systems as you mention. That would be really cool!

 

[Mantana]

No point in that - good components such as Spires (Moon) open out your entire music collection - beware any item where you find yourself heading more often for audiophile CD/LP susbset of your recorded music.

Hi Doug,

I've been curious as to how the Simaudio equipment mates with
the Spires. I've been thinking about the Integrated I7....

 

[Mantana]

Hi Mantana,


Sounds to me that you may like the additional "warmth" of your Montana speakers and find it to be more musical and less fatiguing. That's fine. Having said that and as we all know, the ML's can be ruthlessly revealing. Some like that and others don't.

Actually i wouldn't call the Montanas warm sounding, in fact they
have been described as more "cool" sounding, although that's
a reviewer's term not mine. They are in fact musical and very
dynamic with a very full sound.
They are fast and clear too for a cone speaker, but not as fast
as the Spires, nor as transparent. But the Montanas are good here.
I just need more time to break in the Spires and see how they
develop. I have them in black ash and i think they're
beautiful speakers. I can't see a single manufacturing defect
so i'm impressed with the quality. I auditioned a lot of
speakers before buying the Spires...Vienna Acoustic Mahlers,
Audio Physic Scorpions, Maggie 3.6s, Revel Ultimate Studios,
Avalons, Krells, Thiels, SF Cremonas, Ushers and others
i can't recall right now.

 

[Mantana]

I have another question... on break in....with a conventional cone
speaker, heat builds up at higher volumes which can particularly
affect tweeters. That's why they use ferrofluid to keep temperatures
down. Do i have to worry about running the Spires at moderately
high volumes for long stretches? Does high volume build up heat
in the panels? I figure they would on the sub, but how about the panels?

Can anyone comment on this? Is it ok to run them at moderately
high volume for hours at a time?

 

[FISH_MAN]

the panels should be driven evenly over the entire surface area! that is one reason the electrostatic panel is superior to a tweeter cone. I really do not think this is an issue I think they can take what you have to throw at them. I believe that Logan recommends that you run them this way just to break them in

what do you think is moderately high?

 

[MiTT]

Can anyone comment on this? Is it ok to run them at moderately
high volume for hours at a time?

There should be no issue what so ever. There really is no mass to speak of, and what little there is is dispersed over a very large area compared to conventional dynamic drivers. The electronics in the amp and crossover will get more of a workout. You don't have any problems leaving a SS amp on all day do you? Trust me, the speakers will suffer no ill effects.

 

[Mantana]

the panels should be driven evenly over the entire surface area! that is one reason the electrostatic panel is superior to a tweeter cone. I really do not think this is an issue I think they can take what you have to throw at them. I believe that Logan recommends that you run them this way just to break them in

what do you think is moderately high?

I rarely play at high levels which are uncomfortable to me.
Moderately high in my book is comfortable to listen to
but energetic. Hard to assign a decibel level to what
i'm describing, but i thank you and MITT for replying.

 

[Mantana]

Hi Doug,

I've been curious as to how the Simaudio equipment mates with
the Spires. I've been thinking about the Integrated I7....

Anyone have any experience with this combo?

 

[Dougster]

Anyone have any experience with this combo?

Hi sorry to miss your earlier post. Moon Simaudio + Spires = synergy. I don't have direct experience of i7 but would trust my dealer and Stereophile review as guidance that the marque magic applies to that integrated amp as well as to the w7 p 7 combo I use. The hallmarks are of a fast low distortion dynamic and involving presentation which draws you into the music. Work very well with MLs. Highly recommended but as always do listen yourself.

 

[DTB300]

I rarely play at high levels which are uncomfortable to me.

Get a Rad Shack meter and you can find out. Some people feel uncomfortable is 110dB, some think 85dB. So what is moderately high (coolish-warm ) for you is not Mod High for others and vice versa.

Moderately high in my book is comfortable to listen to but energetic. Hard to assign a decibel level to what i'm describing, but i thank you and MITT for replying.

Yes it is possible to assign a level with the RS. And it can help others here who are trying to assist with your issues, to better assist you knowing what loud is for you.

Again "comfortable level" is very subjective.

 

[Mantana]

I rarely play at high levels which are uncomfortable to me.

Get a Rad Shack meter and you can find out. Some people feel uncomfortable is 110dB, some think 85dB. So what is moderately high (coolish-warm ) for you is not Mod High for others and vice versa.


Yes it is possible to assign a level with the RS. And it can help others here who are trying to assist with your issues, to better assist you knowing what loud is for you.

Again "comfortable level" is very subjective.

I had one of those meters once but took it back because i
didn't think i'd use it much. You're right what's comfortable for
me is certainly subjective. If i had to guess i would say around 95 DB....